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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2337
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 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Therapist DOs and DON'Ts |
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| butterfinger wrote: |
DON'T: ask "How does that make you feel?" |
Most therapists stop asking that after the 1st meltdown.
You sound legit though. I looked for a therapist on craigslist and it didn't turn out very well. I read "therapist looking for work", well later I found out it was a typo and the ad was supposed to be "The rapist looking for work". I'm sure he wanted to ask me "how does that make you feel?" but I got the hell outta Dodge. |
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ediself
Like a boss.
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Posts: 3202
Location: behind you!!!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| butterfinger wrote: | I'm sorry to read about how many negative experiences have been had in therapy but I can say from the therapist's perspective, working with Aspies is (at least for me, I am sure for others as well) extremely challenging. There seems to be a strong resistance to new ideas and suggestions for change which is quite demotivating from the therapist's viewpoint. At the same time it is a huge learning experience. The exhaustion I feel from trying to understand and get into the Aspie mindset for just a few hours a week is what many Aspies deal with every day of their lives!
Anyway, it looks like we've lost the DO and DON'T format of this thread. I guess it is not as simple as DO and DON'T!
Please keep the feedback coming! |
I think you are infering. That's also a "don't"  You offer an idea that is new TO YOU, to a patient who has a habit of overthinking and analyzing everything to the bone. The new solution you're offering is dismissed because it isn't new, it has been though of, modelled, imagined in real time situations, and found to be flawed. The issue is this one: your patient might just say, "no, nope" and not explain why they are refusing this idea. It's sometimes too long and too exhausting to go through the whole thought process again in order to explain the "whys" to you. When that happens, just ask "oh, have you thought about this before?" and I'm pretty sure the answer will be yes.
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dianthus
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 26, 2011
Posts: 726
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| butterfinger wrote: | | Quote: |
The biggest failure they all made was taking an "emotional" approach to understanding me rather than considering whether I might have actual neurological issues. Don't try to find an emotional basis for every issue. |
This is good advice that for NTs is probably as difficult to navigate as it is for people with autism trying to navigate the NT way of thinking. I am really interested to hear more about typical situations where there is, for you, no emotional reasoning behind a certain behavior, but where NTs ascribe emotions to it. |
Well, bear in mind I am diagnosed with ADHD, not autism. Also, I haven't set foot in a counselor's office since I left college, over 14 years ago. So it's been a long time and I'm not sure if I remember well exactly how this played out in counseling. I just have this vague recollection that they always wanted to talk about things in a touchy-feely way that sounded really stupid to me.
The failure was that no one ever considered that I might have ADHD, or any sort of learning disabilities, and they certainly never considered autism. They took the approach that all of my issues were related to emotional/mood upsets or "depression". For instance my sleep issues were always attributed to depression. This might be a whole other topic for discussion, but I think in general many issues are commonly attributed to depression, that shouldn't be.
I used to cry very easily, and once I got started I couldn't stop. A very slight emotional trigger could set me off, or a sensory issue or even just a mild sense of overwhelm or confusion, and I would just cry until I exhausted myself. It was all very straightforward to me, I knew exactly why I was crying, but I couldn't explain it because I couldn't talk while I was crying. Other people got more upset about it than I did, and they would try to "talk me through my feelings" to find some deeper significance to the event, and I got really frustrated because I felt like they were looking for something that wasn't there.
I think this is a very difficult thing for most people to understand, how an expression that seems so obviously emotional, like crying, doesn't necessarily have a complex emotional motivation behind it. There might be some emotional reasoning behind it, but not as much as they think there is.
I burst into tears during my ADHD evaluation, when they gave me a test that taxed my working memory. The mere sensation of "my brain doesn't want to function this way" was enough to set me off. To me that is the same as crying because I am in physical pain. If I cried because someone hit my head with a hammer, there would be no confusion as to why I was crying. I basically feel like my brain is hit by an invisible hammer every time I have to think in a way that isn't natural for me.
I'm rambling, and don't know how to put this into a DO/DON'T format, but hopefully some of this makes sense. As far as situations where people attribute emotional reasoning where there isn't any, I could give a lot more examples from daily life or relationships than I could from a therapeutic context, because those are more recent. It might be another thread topic though.
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ADHD, inattentive type, not sure if I have AS |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87137
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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This is what I'd like from a therapist.
1. Don't make me over. What you see is what you get. So what, if I like The 60s and I look like one of The Kinks? That's the way that I like it.
2. Talk to me like I'm a grown adult. Don't speak to me as though I'm a child, or a teenager. Don't talk down to me and please don't talk like a Valley Girl, just because my birth certificate states that my real gender is Female. Talk to me with the same grammar that you would use if you were talking to a man.
3. Do see me as a person who has a lot of potential. I'd be more motivated to set goals if you were to do that.
4. Do listen to what I have to say and ask questions if you don't understand me, instead of laughing at the things that I have to say. I'm your client and not a comedian.
5. On the days that I'm happy or doing well, a logical approach would be better. On the days that I'm feeling under the weather and I seem tearful, an emotional approach would be better. Different things will work for me on different days.
6. Do not take my special interests away from me. I'll stop seeing you, if you try to do that.
_________________
The darling, unworldly Mick Avory with hands like shovels, who wouldn't dare choose to hurt a soul: I'm the cuddly, adorable Kink. Sweet Peas: http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/Cocknee/Kinks/Sweet%20Pea%20Smileys/ Other: http://www.mybrowsercash.com/ |
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Are you FTK? (Female-to-Kink?)  |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87137
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome!  |
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lilbuddah
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 10, 2011
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Big don't here: Whilst friends find "ohh look at me I'm crazy" jokes hilarious therapists do not. Especially if you claim the bag you have with you contains your mothers severed head. |
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169Kitty
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 25, 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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do: realize that sometimes we may say everything is ok but it really isn't. I don't always have the words to explain what I'm feeling and it's too exhausting to figure out how to make someone like a therapist to understand.
don't: ask vague questions. Ask specifically about how christmas went with family. Did you feel overwhelmed by anything? What did you do when you felt overwhelmed?
_________________
AQ: 42
EQ: 19 SQ: 58 Extreme Systemizing
Your Aspie score: 155 of 200
NT score: 51 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie |
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draelynn
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 25, 2011
Posts: 2304
Location: SE Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dianthus wrote: |
I used to cry very easily, and once I got started I couldn't stop. A very slight emotional trigger could set me off, or a sensory issue or even just a mild sense of overwhelm or confusion, and I would just cry until I exhausted myself. It was all very straightforward to me, I knew exactly why I was crying, but I couldn't explain it because I couldn't talk while I was crying. Other people got more upset about it than I did, and they would try to "talk me through my feelings" to find some deeper significance to the event, and I got really frustrated because I felt like they were looking for something that wasn't there. |
^^THIS^^ so much! Emotions are so greatly varied in ASD. Some people can barely connect to them, others are overwhelmed by them while some of us have inappropriate emotional responses that do not correspond to what an NT would normally associate with the reaction they are witnessing. Many meltdowns look like crying fits - I know mine decline to the point of very low or no verbalization at all. And usually they have nothing at all to do with being sad, or angry or any other associated emotion. It is simply an overload - too much input, not enough processing power = blue screen of death meltdown.
NT's experience the world by how they feel about it. ASD experiences the world by what they think about it. That does not mean that NT's do not think just as it does not mean that ASD does not feel. It's a different perspective. If you want to try and meet someone with ASD on their level, disconnect the emotional filter and try and engage them intellectually. Ask what they think - not what they feel.
I'm no therapist but I would venture a guess that many ASD issues that may require a therapist's assistance are opportunity's to act as an NT translator. Helping someone who doesn't understand NT culture to bridge that gap. It may be more about practical advice than emotional support. And you may have to be able to really understand HOW to break down the NT instinctual social tools to their absolute most basic form. Make sure that your definition of a word matches an ASD definition of a word. Never assume someone with ASD understands all of the implied 'shades of grey' that may exist. Like 'friend'. In ASD that may be as simple as a yes or no answer. The NT version is much more complicated; friend, acquaintance, work related, family, best, etc...
This is no small topic and there are no one size fits all answers. It will never be as easy as 'DO' or 'DON'T'. |
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jojobean
sacred clown
Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 3341
Location: In Georgia sipping a virgin pina' colada while the rest of the world is drunk
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Do: use a cognitive behavioral approach
DONT: even think about getting Freudian on me
Do: help me work through current situations in my life
Dont: drag out every trauma I ever had... thinking regurgitating all that will solve all my problems
DO: have an open mind, I am totally unique
DONT: tell me I cant have autism on our first meeting, because you dont know how far I come, only to be denied my struggle ever existed
Do: embrace my gifts and acknowlege my difficulties
Dont: treat me like I am either mentally challanged or nothing is wrong with me.
_________________
All art is a kind of confession, more or less oblique. All artists, if they are to survive, are forced, at last, to tell the whole story; to vomit the anguish up.
-James Baldwin |
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jojobean
sacred clown
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Posts: 3341
Location: In Georgia sipping a virgin pina' colada while the rest of the world is drunk
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| lilbuddah wrote: | | Big don't here: Whilst friends find "ohh look at me I'm crazy" jokes hilarious therapists do not. Especially if you claim the bag you have with you contains your mothers severed head. |
LOL that reminds me of a time when a friend of mine had a psych consult at the prison he worked at.
It went kinda like this
Therapist: come in.
my friend...that means you to you rascal (looking at bare space on the floor)
T: who are you talking to
F: Listen you brat...it is my turn to talk to this lady (still looking at the floor)
F: These little green men in pink tutu skirts are driving me nuts...I cant get a word in edgewise
T: what are they saying?
F: they are doing Russian dances while singing in Portuguese
T: ok I think we are done here
Receptionist...what did you tell her?
F: I told her about my green men in tutu skirts
Receptionist: you better get in there and tell her you are joking cuz she called the paddy wagon
F: Ma'am I was kidding, dont send the men in the white coats after me.
T: rolls eyes.
door closes, friend leaves the office
F: come-on you little green freak. you about had me in the funny farm
hope you all enjoyed that.
btw...dont try this at any therapist office
Jojo
_________________
All art is a kind of confession, more or less oblique. All artists, if they are to survive, are forced, at last, to tell the whole story; to vomit the anguish up.
-James Baldwin |
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Fern
Deinonychus
Joined: May 07, 2011
Posts: 374
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:09 am Post subject: |
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DON'T talk to 13-year old kids as kids. I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but when I was 13 my mother took me out of school one day and dropped me off at a therapist's office with no explanation. I felt utterly unprepared and violated. The fact that I wasn't asked permission bothered me a lot, and the fact that the therapist did nothing but ask questions and communicated only with my parents afterward made me feel even more defensive. He stared at me face to face over his desk and I couldn't say a word. All I could do the whole time was cry because I felt like no one actually wanted to hear what I had to say. I'm sure that was not really the case, but there I was being glared at, examined, and I didn't even know what I did wrong to deserve it. That's not to mention what followed, not that I think you would do this, but yes DON'T prescribe ritalin to a child who shows no DSM described signs of ADD and has freaking kidney disease.
DO take time to explain and discuss matters with kids. A grain of respect goes a long way, especially if you want to see who they really are at heart.
Age 13 was quite literally the worst year of my life, all thanks to the snowball effect caused by that one therapist I only saw for 30 minutes, who handed my parents a magic bullet for "fixing" me. I wish I wasn't, but to this day I am too afraid to seek any sort of counseling. Even some days when I really want to have someone to talk to, I can't do it. I just remember how much bleeding kidneys hurt less than people treating me like a defective car.
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ediself
Like a boss.
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Age: 35
Posts: 3202
Location: behind you!!!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| draelynn wrote: | NT's experience the world by how they feel about it. ASD experiences the world by what they think about it. That does not mean that NT's do not think just as it does not mean that ASD does not feel. It's a different perspective. If you want to try and meet someone with ASD on their level, disconnect the emotional filter and try and engage them intellectually. Ask what they think - not what they feel.
I'm no therapist but I would venture a guess that many ASD issues that may require a therapist's assistance are opportunity's to act as an NT translator. Helping someone who doesn't understand NT culture to bridge that gap. It may be more about practical advice than emotional support. And you may have to be able to really understand HOW to break down the NT instinctual social tools to their absolute most basic form. Make sure that your definition of a word matches an ASD definition of a word. Never assume someone with ASD understands all of the implied 'shades of grey' that may exist. Like 'friend'. In ASD that may be as simple as a yes or no answer. The NT version is much more complicated; friend, acquaintance, work related, family, best, etc...
This is no small topic and there are no one size fits all answers. It will never be as easy as 'DO' or 'DON'T'. |
I second all of this, and I think they are very important points.
_________________
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/autism-stop-abuse-autistics-france/ |
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Phonic
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!??
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 1331
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | When I was 15 my school required me to see an outside counselor, who was being trained by a psychologist so I had to see them both. By that time I was very well versed in psychology, as I had been reading college psychology textbooks and the like for a few years. They tried to use a lot of "tricks" on me and I understood every one of them. After several sessions they told my mother they could not make any progress with me because I already knew too much about psychology. So, don't try to use any classic tricks of the trade, especially on intelligent, well-read people because they will see right through you. |
This amuses me because my therapist loves that I know so much, she enjoys debating me.
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'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'. |
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