donnie_darko
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 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TheAmoralist wrote: | Gender roles are fictive, much like fictive kin (e.g.: Aryan brotherhood, the military, religion), are used to exploit and manipulate. It's origins come from religion like most of today's sociocultural bull. Gender roles are not directly beneficial to reproduction. Without them, we would still naturally be able to reproduce -natural selection would play it's part. (  ) With it, we over-reproduce, and then we overburden ourselves and our environment, giving authority a cause to exploit us and others. Gender roles are unnecessary and trump freedom and equality.
- Would we, with ASDs, still exist? How would you describe us in evolutionary terms? Positive, negative, or neutral mutation, adaptation, etc.?
I don't have much practice with argumentative writing. Any feedback is appreciated, of course.  |
I wouldn't say gender roles are entirely else. In order to make the sexes entirely equal, you would have to coerce them into going against their nature at least as much as the gender roles coerce the sexes to conform to the idea of what a sex's nature is.
No matter how equal the rights of sexes towards everything is, the fact is more women are going to be stay-at-home parents than men, and more men are going to be in sports. That doesn't mean that all women love kids or that all men love sports (personally, I love neither of those things  ) but I think gender roles exaggerate biological tendencies, rather than create all of the differences between the sexes. |
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AceOfSpades
Deeds not words
Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Posts: 3647
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone else agree with feminism? |
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| Master_Pedant wrote: |
- Gender equality is an ideal to strive for.
- Structural inequalities that disadvantage women still exist.
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No and no. Men and women are inherently different on a neurological and biological level. It is both men and women that enforce gender roles so it's not patriarchal oppression but a mutual thing. Gender roles do blow the differences between the sexes out of proportion, but for the most part they determine how these real biological and neurological differences manifest in modern society. I highly doubt that the manifestations of masculinity and femininity boil down to nothing more than "Cuz society said so". These social constructions are built on a foundation of real biological differences.
Last edited by AceOfSpades on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shrox
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Posts: 3254
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with this type of feminism.
My mother was a "Rosie the Riveter" at 17. |
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AceOfSpades
Deeds not words
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Posts: 3647
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| No one said they're incapable of doing it, but that they just can't compete when it comes to things men are greater at. That's okay, dudes can't compete at things women are greater at. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21970
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| puddingmouse wrote: | | marshall wrote: | | I'm fine with the idea of feminism, but people who call themselves feminists are often a bit nuts. |
Pleased to make your acquaintance. I'm more than a 'bit' nuts.  |
me too.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
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Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | TheAmoralist wrote: | Gender roles are fictive, much like fictive kin (e.g.: Aryan brotherhood, the military, religion), are used to exploit and manipulate. It's origins come from religion like most of today's sociocultural bull. Gender roles are not directly beneficial to reproduction. Without them, we would still naturally be able to reproduce -natural selection would play it's part. ( ) With it, we over-reproduce, and then we overburden ourselves and our environment, giving authority a cause to exploit us and others. Gender roles are unnecessary and trump freedom and equality.
- Would we, with ASDs, still exist? How would you describe us in evolutionary terms? Positive, negative, or neutral mutation, adaptation, etc.?
I don't have much practice with argumentative writing. Any feedback is appreciated, of course. |
I wouldn't say gender roles are entirely else. In order to make the sexes entirely equal, you would have to coerce them into going against their nature at least as much as the gender roles coerce the sexes to conform to the idea of what a sex's nature is.
No matter how equal the rights of sexes towards everything is, the fact is more women are going to be stay-at-home parents than men, and more men are going to be in sports. That doesn't mean that all women love kids or that all men love sports (personally, I love neither of those things ) but I think gender roles exaggerate biological tendencies, rather than create all of the differences between the sexes. |
nobody coerced me into being the breadwinner while my former husband stayed at home to care for our child and do the housework. and nobody coerced him into it either.
my brand of feminism supports the idea that men and women should have the choice to take on either role, or to share roles. considering that the workforce is close to equal in the male:female ratio, it seems that this is already happening.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
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Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone else agree with feminism? |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | minervx wrote: |
On this forum, I see plenty of misogynistic language against women, with even some users referring to them as aliens. It is too unfortunate, not just here, but in many places, that men blame women for their problems. |
And women never blame men for their problems ever? What about that t-shirt 'boys are stupid, throw rocks at them'? |
that t-shirt wasn't on this forum. so it's not a great example.
some women have blamed men for their problems on the forum, but the issues with sexism usually tend to come from males. that's not to say that sexism does not originate from females, but the large majority of problematic posts come from the men.
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Last edited by hyperlexian on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vigilans
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Age: 24
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Location: La belle province
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone else agree with feminism? |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | donnie_darko wrote: | | minervx wrote: |
On this forum, I see plenty of misogynistic language against women, with even some users referring to them as aliens. It is too unfortunate, not just here, but in many places, that men blame women for their problems. |
And women never blame men for their problems ever? What about that t-shirt 'boys are stupid, throw rocks at them'? |
that t-shirt wasn't on this forum. so it's not a great example.
some women have blamed men for their problems on the forum, but the issues with sexism usually tend to come from males. that's not to say that sexism does not originalte from females, but the large majority of problematic posts come from the men. |
I don't see why that shirt would be an example of women "blaming men". Its something some bubbly, flirty teenage girl would probably wear. Probably tight and pink with those words written across the bewbs
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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
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LKL
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Age: 37
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:42 am Post subject: Re: Does anyone else agree with feminism? |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | minervx wrote: |
On this forum, I see plenty of misogynistic language against women, with even some users referring to them as aliens. It is too unfortunate, not just here, but in many places, that men blame women for their problems. |
And women never blame men for their problems ever? What about that t-shirt 'boys are stupid, throw rocks at them'? |
ever seen someone other than a model wearing that shirt? |
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shrox
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Location: OK let's go.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:52 am Post subject: Re: Does anyone else agree with feminism? |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | minervx wrote: |
On this forum, I see plenty of misogynistic language against women, with even some users referring to them as aliens. It is too unfortunate, not just here, but in many places, that men blame women for their problems. |
And women never blame men for their problems ever? What about that t-shirt 'boys are stupid, throw rocks at them'? |
Men like to throw their rocks at...oh, nevermind. |
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AceOfSpades
Deeds not words
Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Posts: 3647
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | nobody coerced me into being the breadwinner while my former husband stayed at home to care for our child and do the housework. and nobody coerced him into it either.
my brand of feminism supports the idea that men and women should have the choice to take on either role, or to share roles. considering that the workforce is close to equal in the male:female ratio, it seems that this is already happening. |
I could care less if men or women take on either roles, but I don't expect them to be equal. Men have better spatial ability and are more left-hemisphere dominant which makes us better at math while women are much more adept at communication and language due to a more even hemispherical dominance and a larger limbic system. It's inevitable that men will be better overall at math and females will be better overall at language-based subjects as well as at caring for children so I think gender equality is a fruitless harvest. However, there is definitely a need to tone the gender roles down a notch since it isn't healthy to take these to extremes. Not only do dudes die more often from suicide since we tend to kill ourselves more violently, we also tend to isolate ourselves more so than women when we could use more of the "tend and befriend" approach rather than the "fight of flight" approach. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
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Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| AceOfSpades wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | nobody coerced me into being the breadwinner while my former husband stayed at home to care for our child and do the housework. and nobody coerced him into it either.
my brand of feminism supports the idea that men and women should have the choice to take on either role, or to share roles. considering that the workforce is close to equal in the male:female ratio, it seems that this is already happening. |
I could care less if men or women take on either roles, but I don't expect them to be equal. Men have better spatial ability and are more left-hemisphere dominant which makes us better at math while women are much more adept at communication and language due to a more even hemispherical dominance and a larger limbic system. It's inevitable that men will be better overall at math and females will be better overall at language-based subjects as well as at caregiving so I think gender equality is a fruitless harvest. |
i don't understand what you are saying. men and women are already equal. equal does not mean identical, otherwise you could not even argue that all men are equal with each other.
interestingly, there is more variation across the members of each gender than there is between the members of the 2 genders (in every area of testing). so basically you can find more differences amongst males and amongst females than between males and females.
you are speaking in absolutes, which is absolutely never accurate.  my spatial abilities are far superior to my verbal communication skills, and i am female. so your post doesn't apply to all females or all males yet you speak in absolute terms.
you should be aware that the whole "left brain/right brain" thing was debunked long ago.
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/images/Pro2_14.pdf
EDIT: took out part where i was requoting and had half-deleted it.
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Last edited by hyperlexian on Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LKL
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:29 am Post subject: |
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The problem with that, Ace, is that those are all generalizations; I've set the curve in almost every math class I've ever taken, and I know a lot of men who are more nurturing than I am. That doesn't mean that I'm not a good woman or that such men are not good men.
Also? Spatial reasoning does not directly link up to math skills; abstract reasoning does (it also links to schizophrenia and religiosity). |
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Tadzio
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: |
interestingly, there is more variation across the members of each gender than there is between the members of the 2 genders (in every area of testing). so basically you can find more differences amongst males and amongst females than between males and females.
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Did you just fall for "The Law of Variances"?
Tadzio |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
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Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Tadzio wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: |
interestingly, there is more variation across the members of each gender than there is between the members of the 2 genders (in every area of testing). so basically you can find more differences amongst males and amongst females than between males and females.
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Did you just fall for "The Law of Variances"?
Tadzio |
no idea what you're talking about, so i can't really answer that.
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