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heavenlyabyss
Phoenix
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, I stopped taking this video seriously the minute video started... if a person wants to make a difference, why would their video scream propaganda?

If you would like to explain this to me in clear words without the use of weird imagery or weird voices, please let me know, in the meanwhile, I don't really care.

I am serious, what the hell is about. I didn't watch it because I found it disgusting.
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Lyll
Snowy Owl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heavenlyabyss. Just google FEMA. I am sure you will find a form of information that suits you.
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Longshanks
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Umm, I stopped taking this video seriously the minute video started... if a person wants to make a difference, why would their video scream propaganda?

If you would like to explain this to me in clear words without the use of weird imagery or weird voices, please let me know, in the meanwhile, I don't really care.

I am serious, what the hell is about. I didn't watch it because I found it disgusting.


I am sure there were a lot of Jewish people in Germany that felt the same way. Their existence is a matter of public law. I've also seen the actual list of all of the locations.

"Uncle Joe Stalin? He couldn't possibly be doing the same thing as Hitler!" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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aghogday
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lyll wrote:
Yeah and your masters have built holiday scout camps for your entertainment





http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/4312850

The thirty year old car, van, and outdated video technology were a dead giveaway, from the get go, that the video was from the mid 90's.

The claims in this video were solidly debunked by popular mechanics 3 years ago, along with other claims in other videos, by conspiracy theorists on this topic. And, furthermore, the video was debunked on the Glenn Beck show three years ago as well.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/4312850


Quote:
3. Beech Grove Amtrak facility
CLAIMS:
A) "The Amtrak Railcar Repair Facility at Beech Grove, Ind., contains high security NSA-style people turnstiles, and high intensity/security lighting for 24-hour operation. These buildings have been sealed airtight and constructed to allow gas to be blown into all the buildings via the newly installed, two-story, hot air heating furnaces. [T]he (jobs) of Americans who were laid off there will be filled with foreigners, who will have no qualms about gassing Americans in the newly renovated gas chambers, in the Dachau and Auschwitz of America."

-2:03-2:15 / 2:30-2:50: "This small building is the only way into a particular fenced area. Inside this building, we see more of the motion-activated detectors, electronic turnstiles, and prison bars. " All of the renovations to this property have involved putting in new fencing, electronic turnstiles, concrete flooring in unused warehouse buildings, and putting in large gas furnaces in buildings that were never heated anytime in the past 20 years."

-4:10-4:40: "In yet another fenced area, we see a large warehouse building at the end with the electronic turnstiles in front of it. The building is one that has a new concrete floor--and its doors and windows have all been blocked. Outside there are new gas pipes."

-4:57-5:17: "The gas lines and gas pipes at the facility run the length of the buildings--and come out at some very, very large brand-new furnaces that have been installed at the buildings throughout the facility."

FACTS:
A) This footage, which appears in multiple videos on YouTube, is from a "documentary" filmed 15 years ago--yet today, it's been viewed nearly 1.5 million times online. The woman who made the video, Linda Thompson, was one of the pioneers of the militia movement in the United States--except that she was so extreme, the Southern Poverty Law Center says she embarrassed even her fellow milita members. (Most famously, she called for an armed march on Washington, D.C., to "take U.S. senators and congressmen into custody, hold them for trial, and, if necessary, execute them."). Far from a death camp, Beech Grove is the primary maintenance facility for Amtrak's long-distance trains, overhauling and repairing approximately 700 passenger cars a year. Company officials, who've heard these theories for years, welcomed our film crew, and John Grey, the superintendent of the facility, showed us anything we wanted to see.

B) The turnstiles and "prison bars": According to Grey, that system was the company's initial attempt at an electronic system to log in and out its 500 employees. They're similar to a pair of subway turnstiles. As the technology evolved, so too did the Amtrak infrastructure: There are no more bars to funnel employees through one set of gates; now there are electronic kiosks across the property where workers can clock in and out. "That system was short-lived," Grey says. "Now there are kiosks everywhere."

-The "large warehouse" with windows and doors that are blocked: When the original footage was filmed, the "Coach 3" building, one of three original repair facilities on the property, was in the process of being emptied and consolidated into the other two massive warehouses on the property. That's why it was boarded up. The building was demolished about seven years ago.

-New gas pipes and furnaces: In 1993, the existing centralized power plant for steam heat was deemed too expensive and inefficient. That year, the company upgraded to localized forced-air gas heaters. (Hence the "new gas pipes" seen in 1994.) "The volume of gas use went up, so we rerouted the gas line from a front entrance to the back entrance," Grey said, "just like you would at your house."


It's the nice thing about google. It's fair and balanced. It provides information on most every claim and every fact to support or debunk the claim.

But, if someone doesn't go through the trouble of a few key strokes, they can end of up believing whatever is fed to them.

It's amazing the parts of reality that people will ignore, to reinforce their pre-conceived notions.

However, it's also reflective of the fact that some people don't notice details as well as others do. Thirty year old Cars, Vans, and video technology from the 90's, aren't small details though.
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Lyll
Snowy Owl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apology, How dumb am I!

The governements are only trying to protect their citizens...

http://www.fema.gov/plan/index.shtm

I am going to flagellate myself right away


Last edited by Lyll on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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aghogday
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Umm, I stopped taking this video seriously the minute video started... if a person wants to make a difference, why would their video scream propaganda?

If you would like to explain this to me in clear words without the use of weird imagery or weird voices, please let me know, in the meanwhile, I don't really care.

I am serious, what the hell is about. I didn't watch it because I found it disgusting.


The individual/Mask that calls him or herself anonymous was expressing a warning about language in the 2012 national defense act, extending the authority, established after 9/11, to retain foreign detainees without trial. "Anonymous" suggests that the language in the bill is designed to remove or encroach upon the rights of US citizens.

The best way to form a decision on something like this, is to pursue it with research from reputable sources. If you are interested in it, you can type in "National Defense Act" in Google, and there are thousands of opinions on the topic from real/reputable sources.

There are some opinions from legal experts that the language in the bill is not precise enough and can be interpreted in more than one way, but they explain it in neutral terms, without the drama of the anonymous video.

"Anonymous" is obviously the worst source possible to gain reliable information, because the individual is unwilling to state who they are.

In the latest video, by the mask, that calls itself Anonymous, it declares War on the US.

But, the message doesn't fit everyone's pre-conceived notions of what they think anonymous would say, so some don't believe it is the "real anonymous".

I enjoy listening to all points of view, even anonymous, but I refuse to accept an anonymous view as a reputable source for facts, without doing my own research. And, with Google it's easy to to do that; one just has to be able to determine what sources are reputable and what sources have an obvious agenda, other than relating facts.

If someone is selling a book, and you have to buy the book to get all the facts on some conspiracy, it's a pretty good sign that there is an alternate agenda of profit involved.

If you look up any of the FEMA conspiracies, it's a mainstay of the radio talk show hosts that propogate the conspiracies; they profit from everything from books, gold, to survivalist gear. They are getting rich off of the fears they inspire in segments of the American Public, by propogating the conspiracies.

The government has internal checks and balances. When they screw up, the truth usually eventually comes out.

Radio talk show hosts, only answer to the listeners they choose to screen for opinons, broadcasts hosts, and commercial hosts.

Anonymous is an interesting new phenonmenon, in that it does not appear to be a commercial source of information, and appears to be driven by ideology and/or attention rather than commercial revenue. However the validity of the information it provides is always suspect, because it is an anonymous source.

Don't trust any facts I present without your own research; every criticism I apply to the information provided by anonymous, can be applied to myself, as just another anonymous poster on the internet. Smile

The beauty of the experience with the full anonymous experience of the internet, is it can allow one practice in discerning facts for themselves to develop critical consciousness. If we stop doing that, we are subject to any propaganda that might be fed to us, by any anonymous source, wittingly or unwittingly.

The fact that you immediately picked up on, what you saw as "BS" factors in the anonymous video, is evidence that you aren't easily swayed by information that may be propaganda.
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eigerpere
Deinonychus
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the point of this kind of propaganda? It's the Obama hating party who like to drive fear. It's completely unimpressive. If they have something to say, then say it plainly so it can be clearly understood. People appearing to believe this stuff is what surprises me.

Fear Mongers have the Christians in the palm of their hands, and Christians are a very large population they are very successful pandering to.
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aghogday
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lyll wrote:
My apology, How dumb am I!

The governements are only trying to protect its citizens...

http://www.fema.gov/plan/index.shtm

I am going to flagellate myself right away


FEMA has done a very poor job in protecting it's citizens in the past. Hurricane Katrina was evidence of how unprepared the country was for a real disaster in providing subsistence for the citizens, after such a disaster.

The potential disasters and/or terrorist attacks whether domestic or foreign, must be prepared for, to adequately protect the citizens in such an event. Otherwise, the administration, in charge, if such a disaster happens, will bear the brunt of that failure, as did the administration did during the Katrina event.

The government deserves criticism when it fails the citizens. The terror warnings that were issued in the 2000's were obviously used for political manipulation, and the motivations to go to war in Iraq, are suspect to say the least, along with all the other abuses that are continually uncovered past and present.

The danger of terrorism, domestic and foreign, as well as the potential for natural disasters are terrifying enough, without a segment of the population being terrified of the provisions that would be provided after such an event from FEMA.

After the wide circulation of these FEMA concentration camp conspiracy theories for the last four years, that are still believed after being debunked three years ago; there will probably be some people that refuse assistance from FEMA, out of unwarranted fear of FEMA, in the event of a real terrorist/disaster event in the future, when the organized plans for response from FEMA are put into effect.

I see no areas of concern on the FEMA website, other than an organized effort to meet the mission of that government agency after disasters. Have you found an issue there that you believe warrants concern?

FEMA has had it's failures in the past, but they have reorganized as an agency, and continue to save lives, as we speak, from the current Tornado disasters in the country.

I went through a Hurricane, where the FEMA response was excellent. It made me feel lucky that I was a part of a country that took care of it's citizens. Unfortunately, Katrina was more than could be imagined. I am convinced that FEMA is not fully prepared for a Nuclear Terrorist attack either, because it is in that same uncharted territory of more than could be imagined.
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aghogday
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eigerpere wrote:
What's the point of this kind of propaganda? It's the Obama hating party who like to drive fear. It's completely unimpressive. If they have something to say, then say it plainly so it can be clearly understood. People appearing to believe this stuff is what surprises me.

Fear Mongers have the Christians in the palm of their hands, and Christians are a very large population they are very successful pandering to.


Glenn Beck has used the messages that have been attributed to "anonymous" to engage fear in his audience, many whom have strong religious beliefs.

Individuals calling themselves anonymous, recently hacked some religious sites, with Richard Dawkins videos, so it doesn't appear like there is too much religious sentiment in those that have identified themselves with the brand.

Recent messages from anonymous, whomever they may be attributed to, have been off kilter, with the declaration of a war against the US called OperationV and the termination of the so called war, 5 days later.

It appears that the anonymous idea is snowballing into an opportunity for individuals to grab some attention; it takes little expertise to wear a mask and make a youtube video.

The NSA takes the hacking attacks associated with "anonymous" and threats against the US seriously, but the brand name is becoming a joke, that anyone can take part of with a mask and a computer.

The fact that Glenn Beck was the only mainstream news person, providing coverage for the brandname, speaks volumes.

The justification among some whom identify with the brand name with the hacking attacks, has been internet freedom.

But, crime leads to loss of freedoms. If enough take part in internet crime because of their perceived ability to remain anonymous, the freedoms to retain anonymous status on the internet, may become more limited than they currently are.
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Lyll
Snowy Owl
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Joined: Feb 18, 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I enjoy listening to all points of view, even anonymous, but I refuse to accept an anonymous view as a reputable source for facts, without doing my own research. And, with Google it's easy to to do that; one just has to be able to determine what sources are reputable and what sources have an obvious agenda, other than relating facts. Don't trust any facts I present without your own research; every criticism I apply to the information provided by anonymous, can be applied to myself, as just another anonymous poster on the internet. Smile


I agree, but we unfortunately live in a world where 'reputablility' is difficult establish. Mainstream information is often very selected (except on the net, at least not yet.) As for images and films, technological advances have shown that they cannot be trusted either. Fakes can be created so easily.

So you end up gathering information from all sorts of sources but without being able to come to a conclusion concerning their veracity, unless you see thing for yourself (in the real world, not on a screen) Confusing!!! Annoying!!!.
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aghogday
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lyll wrote:
Quote:
I enjoy listening to all points of view, even anonymous, but I refuse to accept an anonymous view as a reputable source for facts, without doing my own research. And, with Google it's easy to to do that; one just has to be able to determine what sources are reputable and what sources have an obvious agenda, other than relating facts. Don't trust any facts I present without your own research; every criticism I apply to the information provided by anonymous, can be applied to myself, as just another anonymous poster on the internet. Smile


I agree, but we unfortunately live in a world where 'reputablility' is difficult establish. Mainstream information is often very selected (except on the net, at least not yet.) As for images and films, technological advances have shown that they cannot be trusted either. Fakes can be created so easily.

So you end up gathering information from all sorts of sources but without being able to come to a conclusion concerning their veracity, unless you see thing for yourself (in the real world, not on a screen) Confusing!!! Annoying!!!.


I agree; the anonymous phenomenon certainly highlights that issue.
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YippySkippy
Phoenix
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is all over the place - comedy, paranoia, reason. A bit of everything.
I can't make heads or tails of it. Is it all a joke or what? Confused
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aghogday
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YippySkippy wrote:
This thread is all over the place - comedy, paranoia, reason. A bit of everything.
I can't make heads or tails of it. Is it all a joke or what? Confused


I think it's the inevitable consequence of a movement that calls itself "anonymous".

However, the topic message by "anonymous" regarding the language in the National Defense Act on foreign detainees, is a mainstream controversial issue, not only in this country but other countries as well, particularly in respect to the impact on whether or not the US is overstepping it's authority to hold foreign detainees indefinitely without trial.

Whether or not the US can hold citizens without due process, if they act against the country, has been a part of debate years before 9/11 occurred. It would be political suicide for any administration to do it under normal circumstances.

Laws can change pretty quickly, with conflict on our soil, without much resistance from anyone, as shown, by 9/11. The concerns about the language in the bill as they exist now, pale in comparison to what might happen with another attack on our soil, domestic or foreign.

Problem is, it seems like a country and the people within that country need an enemy, and if there isn't a clear threat from someone outside the borders, the government can become one of the designated enemies.

The political process as it exists is in control of our way of life. Movements like the Tea Party, Occupy Wallstreet, and Anonymous have stirred up some talk and provided the designated enemy, but haven't led to any real changes, or accomplished real goals.

None of the movements had/have a clear message. A tea party when taxes were at the lowest point ever; an occupy wallstreet movement calling themselves the 99 percent, but whom actually consist of less than 1 percent, and finally Anonymous that refuses to be identified, while at the same time appearing to desperately seek attention.

Looking at the Youtube video of the "anonymous" termination of it's 5 day war declared on the US, there were actually people there still willing to support the effort, that they fully believed was real. Although, not likely they had any idea what supporting the effort meant.

I've come to the conclusion that the importance of believing in something common whether it is a savior or an enemy, is an inherent part of the human condition.

Organized religion is losing it's influence, but other sources of "religion" like "anonymous", almost a completely faith based entity with hardly any organization, are plentiful to support. The internet has definitely broadened the choices.

Anonymous provides a multitude of opportunities for individuals to play a part as an "Internet Wizard of Oz". For the most part, likely teens behind a curtain operating the controls, attempting to use fear to gain attention and support for whatever their message may be.

While some play the role of Dorothy, attempting to discern what is real.
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