|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Pandora_Box wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
If there's a heart available for use how is that more logical? why throw away a perfectly good heart if someone could use it.
And I agree with this though I am not sure I have the same idea of what living side by side with the ecosystem looks like. |
Why do we want a newborn babey with the possibility of giving a heart defect to their offspring? When reproducing off spring, we want to pass on the stronger of genes. All species do this. All species want to pass on the best genes. The reason for so many disease and so many people with these genes is the fact that we save those kinds of babies. And what if those babies given a new heart continue for the rest of their life to have different heart problems, etc? It more sound to allow the natural course take it's toll.
I am in the process of majoring in environmental conservation and natural resources. I want to create not just green technology, but sustainable technology. Technology that abides by the laws of nature. I want to have a world less dependent on coal and less dependent on so many drugs, etc. To me that is cohabitation. Not just saying "How we can fix a problem", but "Why is this problem occuring" and not just creating a new gadget or a new drug because that only fixes the short term. But something that is created in the process of long term thought.
We need to stop thinking short term and start making decisions for the long term. |
What's to say they will have offspring...and I don't think we can really breed ourselves into superhumans with no health problems and no need of any technology related to it.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
I am aware of that, I guess I am not quite sure what exact point you're making. |
Just that. The more of a burden we make of ourselves or the more we push on society or make demands without giving back the more vulnerable a position we put ourselves in. |
giving back what is what I would like to know...but that is ridiculous you seem to be justifying the idea we should just simply act neurotypical and accept every attempt at a cure or else. I mean there would be no justification for trying to kill off everyone with autism, or any other 'defect'. Seems kind of like blaming the victim......well if only you had acted more normal you wouldn't be sent to the death camp would be come a common phrase.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: | [
What's to say they will have offspring...and I don't think we can really breed ourselves into superhumans with no health problems and no need of any technology related to it. |
That isn't what I said. Quit putting words into my text.
No species can breed themselves into super species, but all species all other animal species do try to keep the stronger genes in their gene pool. We need to take that mindset into mind. It isn't about being super powered. It's about being smart. It's about management over cure. I think by wanting to cure everything that we are trying to make super humans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pandora_Box wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | [
What's to say they will have offspring...and I don't think we can really breed ourselves into superhumans with no health problems and no need of any technology related to it. |
That isn't what I said. Quit putting words into my text.
No species can breed themselves into super species, but all species all other animal species do try to keep the stronger genes in their gene pool. We need to take that mindset into mind. It isn't about being super powered. It's about being smart. It's about management over cure. I think by wanting to cure everything that we are trying to make super humans. |
that was hardly my intention, it just seemed that was the implication so sorry.......I guess I suck at comprehending things. Also I just feel like most parents aren't going to just let their child die if theres something they can do about it so expecting someone to let their defective child die would be a little ridiculous in the real world.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
that was hardly my intention, it just seemed that was the implication so sorry.......I guess I suck at comprehending things. Also I just feel like most parents aren't going to just let their child die if theres something they can do about it so expecting someone to let their defective child die would be a little ridiculous in the real world. |
But those are decisions based on Emotions and Morals.
Emotional argument v.s. Logical Argument.
Gorillas and other species have some radius of emotionally reasoning as we do. Elephants recognize their dead. However, they all when have defective children do the more logical thing which is to leave them to die. Emotional argument v.s. logical argument. Think long term not short term. "Oh my baby will get to live", but the long term is the child may continue to have complications, may get sick easier, etc those are long term possibilities not overseen. Just that their baby can live. But you can have children some other time. But you can still reproduce another child. It isn't like this is the end of the world. It is more logical for the long term to let the child die. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pandora_Box wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
that was hardly my intention, it just seemed that was the implication so sorry.......I guess I suck at comprehending things. Also I just feel like most parents aren't going to just let their child die if theres something they can do about it so expecting someone to let their defective child die would be a little ridiculous in the real world. |
But those are decisions based on Emotions and Morals.
Emotional argument v.s. Logical Argument.
Gorillas and other species have some radius of emotionally reasoning as we do. Elephants recognize their dead. However, they all when have defective children do the more logical thing which is to leave them to die. Emotional argument v.s. logical argument. Think long term not short term. "Oh my baby will get to live", but the long term is the child may continue to have complications, may get sick easier, etc those are long term possibilities not overseen. Just that their baby can live. But you can have children some other time. But you can still reproduce another child. It isn't like this is the end of the world. It is more logical for the long term to let the child die. |
That may be but it still exists, do you honestly expect parents to want to leave their child to die, if there is something they can do to prevent it? Thing is emotions are part of the human experience, to deny them is to deny human nature. I am glad my mom did not feel she could produce a better child....when she had me if she had looked at just the logic then yes I would have been tossed aside to die.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
That may be but it still exists, do you honestly expect parents to want to leave their child to die, if there is something they can do to prevent it? Thing is emotions are part of the human experience, to deny them is to deny human nature. I am glad my mom did not feel she could produce a better child....when she had me if she had looked at just the logic then yes I would have been tossed aside to die. |
But they are not preventing anything. In the long term the child may still suffer from the problems that they tried to prevent. So there was really nothing worth the effort of wasting the resources to waste more resources on a sick child. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
giving back what is what I would like to know...but that is ridiculous you seem to be justifying the idea we should just simply act neurotypical and accept every attempt at a cure or else. |
I'd just argue that those of us who are high functioning should be trying to chip away at the angles that throw barriers between ourselves and NT's. We can and in a sense need to let certain things fly but overall getting communication to work and getting messages conveyed back and forth as well as being able to defend ourselves verbally, ideologically, and even physically is a big deal.
| Sweetleaf wrote: | | I mean there would be no justification for trying to kill off everyone with autism, or any other 'defect'. |
In the case of a societal collapse it would more likely be LFA's but I have a feeling that anyone who hung back and said they couldn't do what was asked of them would be in constant danger.
| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Seems kind of like blaming the victim......well if only you had acted more normal you wouldn't be sent to the death camp would be come a common phrase. |
I don't know if its just life as a guy that I'm speaking from but from my own experience victim is a synonym for mark; being a victim is not a good thing and if bad things happen to you it seems like admitting to victimhood is the worst choice as, at least in my experience in living as a guy, it means that you're weak and deserve to have absolutely everything taken from you by someone stronger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
phil777
Phoenix
Joined: May 21, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 4825
Location: Montreal, Québec
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I find it rather offensive that such a topic as this one is discussed here. Are we playing Nazis again? =/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"natural" is an illusion we are matter and we exist and as such we are natural, it doesnt serve as an argument at all, there are loads of things that make us say we differ from animals after all.
all of this is not to say that we cant improve upon ourselves or take clues from nature around us.
evolution in the natural world comes from the simple fact of survival, you might argue that we have made it too easy but instead of trying to regulate who dies or not we could perhaps remove many of the warnings and much of the hand holding, lets throw out military training as well, anyone stupid enough to sign up deserves the quick death coming to them then right?
even if we acknowledge that we should remove the "weak" members how does one decide who is weak?
i know plenty of NT's my age that dont come close to my accomplishments, yet there are still things all of them could do much better than me, in the this is where the whole idea of eugenics break down time and time again.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| phil777 wrote: | | I find it rather offensive that such a topic as this one is discussed here. Are we playing Nazis again? =/ |
I was never expressing mass genocide. All I expressed is that sometimes we should allow what's natural to occur. Such as if someone is to old and continues getting sick and is continually close to death, just let them die. Quit forcing the older generation to live longer, there should be policies that just let them die as natural instead of making them live longer. When the body is old the body is old. Children whom are born with life illnesses should be just given a stamp of death instead of being forced to continue living a life of hospital and sickness, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pandora_Box wrote: | | phil777 wrote: | | I find it rather offensive that such a topic as this one is discussed here. Are we playing Nazis again? =/ |
I was never expressing mass genocide. All I expressed is that sometimes we should allow what's natural to occur. Such as if someone is to old and continues getting sick and is continually close to death, just let them die. Quit forcing the older generation to live longer, there should be policies that just let them die as natural instead of making them live longer. When the body is old the body is old. Children whom are born with life illnesses should be just given a stamp of death instead of being forced to continue living a life of hospital and sickness, etc. |
we all have a choice, in many countries some arent allowed to make those choices but iwe still have the choice.
what happens when technology allows a conscoiusness to continue beyond the abilities of the body?
again technology is natural, it might not be nature as in the evolved biosphere of earth but it is a part of a natural process.
evolution continues beyond genetics, beyond culture and beyond ideology.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Woofer123
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 17, 2012
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wtf is wrong with you guys?!?
Why on earth would anybody advocate such a racist and demeaning ideology such as eugenics?!?!?[i] |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29275
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Woofer123 wrote: | Wtf is wrong with you guys?!?
Why on earth would anybody advocate such a racist and demeaning ideology such as eugenics?!?!?[i] |
This approach produces first rate livestock and race-horses. It is not all bad.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | Woofer123 wrote: | Wtf is wrong with you guys?!?
Why on earth would anybody advocate such a racist and demeaning ideology such as eugenics?!?!?[i] |
This approach produces first rate livestock and race-horses. It is not all bad.
ruveyn |
ideally maybe not,
but the added complexity of human cosciousness and society means that it in practice is almost impossible to implement in any positive way.
we are simply too ignorant and too wrapped up in ourselves to do so anytime soon.
in addition there is the fact that when actively breeding towards specific attributes they often diminish or supress other positive attributes, health is in the eye of the beholder in these cases.
a race horse will obviously be bred for speed and the endurance to keep it up for a race but it will never carry much wheight in relation to work animals and its endurance doesnt come close to that of sturdier breeds toiling in the fields or at the mill.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
