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Tufted Titmouse
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23 Feb 2012, 9:33 am

The vision thing, that's true.

Image

Frankly, I'm glad we can only see certain wavelengths. X-rays, gamma rays, radio and TV signals just sound like way too much information.

I mean, take a look at this and tell me that it wouldn't be spoiled by more wavelengths;

Image

Also, I wanted to provide some names of what I've been watching on YouTube:

Thunderf00t (series of "Why do people laugh at creationists?" and seems to not like Muslims very much), Captain Disillusion (debunking videos like Mythbusters, critical thinking), Richard Dawkins (I thought it was Hawkins in an earlier post, pure, unadulterated atheism), Carl Sagan and Neil Degrasse Tyson (science and critical thinking).



Kraichgauer
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23 Feb 2012, 12:59 pm

Vigilans wrote:
God is x-rays? Does that mean he sees all the ladies nude? Lucky shmuck


In that case, I better invest in lead boxers. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



shrox
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23 Feb 2012, 1:02 pm

goodwitchy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Hypotheses are provable ideas. Theories are proven hypotheses.


But I thought hypotheses are not proven as hypotheses; only provable once they are theories :?:


A hypotheses has the potential to be proven, and has an expected outcome.



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23 Feb 2012, 1:07 pm

jojobean wrote:
Here are my beliefs, take what you want, leave the rest, hopefully something I say will answer some questions,

The eye only sees 3 percent of the light that enters it, what is in that other 97 percent?
Surely it has to be something if it takes soo much space...its energy.
In my belief, God is that energy that is in everything like water is in the ocean.
God has many names, many faces,but is one source, no religion truly understands God...only what they choose to project on God.
When I say (Is) I mean I believe God has no gender and to simplify things my pronoun for God is "Is".
Anyway I believe in reincarnation cause it only makes sense, in fact the bible once talked about reincarnation too before the church grew to power in the middle ages and edited it out and declaring it heresy. They did that because they wanted people to believe that only the church had total control of people's souls...reincarnation bypasses the church.
As far as reincarnation being the only afterlife scenero that makes sense, I mean the whole universe and all that is in it operates in cycles...and cycles within cycles within cycles, nothing is linear...so why would our souls' journey be linear?

Why are we imperfect yet "made in his image"?
Each one of us has the whole spectrum of humanity within us from Gandhi to Hitler...we also have our likeness with God within us, but our minds have not realized it yet. Our journey through our many lives is a journey to realizing our oneness with God...this only comes through experience. Suffering helps us experience joy...without ever having suffering, we would not know what joy or peace was and would not treasure it. Suffering teaches us the value of non-suffering.
Through experiencing the opposites of God, we grow closer to our likeness in God.
As far as the evil in the world today...humanity has to reach a point where it is weary of it and then people will seek the opposites of evil.

Here is a real mind bender...if I haven't done that yet, I believe we chose our lives before we are born for our spiritual growth...we take part in planning our spiritual journey...of course we only have a limited number of choices based on our spiritual needs and karma or else we all be millionaires, but we choose our lives for various reasons. for example, the infant whose mother died, will mourn the loss of her mother for the rest of her life, but this will cause her to be very invested in welfare of children in her area and she will become a child advovcate, all because she knows what it is like to be without someone to look out for her. The mother who chose her life, also chose her death, so her daughter could go on and be the person she becomes. Each action, has an oppisite reaction...also applies in our spiritual life. The laws of the universe are applied in spirit as well.

Anyway, my beliefs are custom made...I went on a journey years ago to find what was true to me, beyond what anyone told me to believe...I followed my heart and my inner guide and this is where that journey lead me...I am still growing and changing my beliefs but the entirety of my beliefs is a combination of Gnostic Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Native American Spirituality with some Neo-Pagan earth religions thrown in for good measure.

But like I said, take what you want, leave the rest, hopefully something I said will answer some questions for you.

Also I ask you to learn the history of the bible and its many changes during the middle ages before believing the current version as the Word. Changes in the middle ages were not made by God, but by power-thirsty religious leaders for totalitarian control. The many changes it went through explain its contradictory nature...some changes were made here and there, but overlooked in other places. It is a great source of guidance on many subjects, but the belief of it being infalable indeed leads to much doubt and confusion.
The only infalable word of God is within you... in your hopes and dreams and that "gut" feeling. I cant tell you what to believe, nor should anyone else, only you know what is true for you.

Jojo

Jojo


I don't believe we have a "soul". We are just a temporal being, like the Bible says...we live, die, then nothing, then the Resurrection.



Kraichgauer
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23 Feb 2012, 1:11 pm

shrox wrote:
jojobean wrote:
Here are my beliefs, take what you want, leave the rest, hopefully something I say will answer some questions,

The eye only sees 3 percent of the light that enters it, what is in that other 97 percent?
Surely it has to be something if it takes soo much space...its energy.
In my belief, God is that energy that is in everything like water is in the ocean.
God has many names, many faces,but is one source, no religion truly understands God...only what they choose to project on God.
When I say (Is) I mean I believe God has no gender and to simplify things my pronoun for God is "Is".
Anyway I believe in reincarnation cause it only makes sense, in fact the bible once talked about reincarnation too before the church grew to power in the middle ages and edited it out and declaring it heresy. They did that because they wanted people to believe that only the church had total control of people's souls...reincarnation bypasses the church.
As far as reincarnation being the only afterlife scenero that makes sense, I mean the whole universe and all that is in it operates in cycles...and cycles within cycles within cycles, nothing is linear...so why would our souls' journey be linear?

Why are we imperfect yet "made in his image"?
Each one of us has the whole spectrum of humanity within us from Gandhi to Hitler...we also have our likeness with God within us, but our minds have not realized it yet. Our journey through our many lives is a journey to realizing our oneness with God...this only comes through experience. Suffering helps us experience joy...without ever having suffering, we would not know what joy or peace was and would not treasure it. Suffering teaches us the value of non-suffering.
Through experiencing the opposites of God, we grow closer to our likeness in God.
As far as the evil in the world today...humanity has to reach a point where it is weary of it and then people will seek the opposites of evil.

Here is a real mind bender...if I haven't done that yet, I believe we chose our lives before we are born for our spiritual growth...we take part in planning our spiritual journey...of course we only have a limited number of choices based on our spiritual needs and karma or else we all be millionaires, but we choose our lives for various reasons. for example, the infant whose mother died, will mourn the loss of her mother for the rest of her life, but this will cause her to be very invested in welfare of children in her area and she will become a child advovcate, all because she knows what it is like to be without someone to look out for her. The mother who chose her life, also chose her death, so her daughter could go on and be the person she becomes. Each action, has an oppisite reaction...also applies in our spiritual life. The laws of the universe are applied in spirit as well.

Anyway, my beliefs are custom made...I went on a journey years ago to find what was true to me, beyond what anyone told me to believe...I followed my heart and my inner guide and this is where that journey lead me...I am still growing and changing my beliefs but the entirety of my beliefs is a combination of Gnostic Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Native American Spirituality with some Neo-Pagan earth religions thrown in for good measure.

But like I said, take what you want, leave the rest, hopefully something I said will answer some questions for you.

Also I ask you to learn the history of the bible and its many changes during the middle ages before believing the current version as the Word. Changes in the middle ages were not made by God, but by power-thirsty religious leaders for totalitarian control. The many changes it went through explain its contradictory nature...some changes were made here and there, but overlooked in other places. It is a great source of guidance on many subjects, but the belief of it being infalable indeed leads to much doubt and confusion.
The only infalable word of God is within you... in your hopes and dreams and that "gut" feeling. I cant tell you what to believe, nor should anyone else, only you know what is true for you.

Jojo

Jojo


I don't believe we have a "soul". We are just a temporal being, like the Bible says...we live, die, then nothing, then the Resurrection.


I always understood a soul was a requirement for the Resurrection, but before then, it's asleep with Christ.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Feb 2012, 1:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
shrox wrote:

I don't believe we have a "soul". We are just a temporal being, like the Bible says...we live, die, then nothing, then the Resurrection.


I always understood a soul was a requirement for the Resurrection, but before then, it's asleep with Christ.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I believe when Jesus died, he was truly dead, the entity of Jesus Christ did not exist for three days and three nights. Yahweh had reduced himself to the zygote that grew into Jesus Christ. He then experienced the world and a full range of human emotions and pains so he could truly know what it is like to be human. Then we humans tortured and killed him in a horrible fashion. The dead body was then entombed Wednesday evening until He was quickened by Jehovah on Saturday evening. The stone was moved away, and Jesus walked out of the tomb as Yahweh, with firsthand knowledge of the animal called human.

Jehovah witnessed all of this, and did not move against us.

I believe the same is for us, and that is why Jehovah did not move against us. Jesus was the first of billions, who die, are dead, then are resurrected and quickened.



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23 Feb 2012, 1:40 pm

shrox wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
shrox wrote:

I don't believe we have a "soul". We are just a temporal being, like the Bible says...we live, die, then nothing, then the Resurrection.


I always understood a soul was a requirement for the Resurrection, but before then, it's asleep with Christ.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I believe when Jesus died, he was truly dead, the entity of Jesus Christ did not exist for three days and three nights. Yahweh had reduced himself to the zygote that grew into Jesus Christ. He then experienced the world and a full range of human emotions and pains so he could truly know what it is like to be human. Then we humans tortured and killed him in a horrible fashion. The dead body was then entombed Wednesday evening until He was quickened by Jehovah on Saturday evening. The stone was moved away, and Jesus walked out of the tomb as Yahweh, with firsthand knowledge of the animal called human.

Jehovah witnessed all of this, and did not move against us.

I believe the same is for us, and that is why Jehovah did not move against us. Jesus was the first of billions, who die, are dead, then are resurrected and quickened.


I think you and I are of two different Christian traditions.
As a Lutheran, I believe for the three days after his death, Christ had descended into hell to proclaim his victory to the fallen angels there, then was resurrected. This, I believe, can be found written by Peter, and is also in the Ecumenical Creeds.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Feb 2012, 1:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
shrox wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
shrox wrote:

I don't believe we have a "soul". We are just a temporal being, like the Bible says...we live, die, then nothing, then the Resurrection.


I always understood a soul was a requirement for the Resurrection, but before then, it's asleep with Christ.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I believe when Jesus died, he was truly dead, the entity of Jesus Christ did not exist for three days and three nights. Yahweh had reduced himself to the zygote that grew into Jesus Christ. He then experienced the world and a full range of human emotions and pains so he could truly know what it is like to be human. Then we humans tortured and killed him in a horrible fashion. The dead body was then entombed Wednesday evening until He was quickened by Jehovah on Saturday evening. The stone was moved away, and Jesus walked out of the tomb as Yahweh, with firsthand knowledge of the animal called human.

Jehovah witnessed all of this, and did not move against us.

I believe the same is for us, and that is why Jehovah did not move against us. Jesus was the first of billions, who die, are dead, then are resurrected and quickened.


I think you and I are of two different Christian traditions.
As a Lutheran, I believe for the three days after his death, Christ had descended into hell to proclaim his victory to the fallen angels there, then was resurrected. This, I believe, can be found written by Peter, and is also in the Ecumenical Creeds.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Oh, Quakers have no creeds.



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23 Feb 2012, 1:55 pm

Samuel D Caldwell - a former executive secretary of Philadelphia Yearly Meeting - offers this statement as a succinct definition of the Quaker Faith. It's from a lecture he gave in 1998 entitled, "The time has come to choose". Enjoy!

Samuel D Caldwell wrote:
"God gives to every human being who comes into the world - regardless of race, religion, gender, or station - a measure of the divine spirit as a living witness and an eternal Light to be inwardly guided by on a daily basis. That Inner Light is supernatural, personal, universal, saving, eternal, persistent, and pure. The chief end of religious life is to learn to listen to and act upon the promptings of this Light under the authority of God and within the bonds of human community. Those who learn to heed the promptings of this Light come to be 'saved' - that is, they come into fullness and wholeness of life and right relationship with God, themselves, the universe and one another. Those who resist, ignore, or otherwise deny the workings of this pure spirit within them, though they profess themselves to be religious, are “condemned” - that is, they become alienated from God, from themselves, from the universe, and from one another."



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23 Feb 2012, 2:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
Samuel D Caldwell - a former executive secretary of Philadelphia Yearly Meeting - offers this statement as a succinct definition of the Quaker Faith. It's from a lecture he gave in 1998 entitled, "The time has come to choose". Enjoy!

Samuel D Caldwell wrote:
"God gives to every human being who comes into the world - regardless of race, religion, gender, or station - a measure of the divine spirit as a living witness and an eternal Light to be inwardly guided by on a daily basis. That Inner Light is supernatural, personal, universal, saving, eternal, persistent, and pure. The chief end of religious life is to learn to listen to and act upon the promptings of this Light under the authority of God and within the bonds of human community. Those who learn to heed the promptings of this Light come to be 'saved' - that is, they come into fullness and wholeness of life and right relationship with God, themselves, the universe and one another. Those who resist, ignore, or otherwise deny the workings of this pure spirit within them, though they profess themselves to be religious, are “condemned” - that is, they become alienated from God, from themselves, from the universe, and from one another."


Mr. Caldwell has a very educated opinion, there is something that sets humans apart from the rest of the animal order.

I believe the last statement to be true, but simply not for humans. Other intelligent beings have ears that hear too, like...

Image



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23 Feb 2012, 3:55 pm

@ shrox

I'm unfamiliar with the teachings of various religions, and I'm just curious then according to what you wrote, does that mean that Yahweh, even though He created "man and earth", did not understand the creature "man" until He lived as a man?


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Last edited by goodwitchy on 28 Feb 2012, 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Feb 2012, 4:48 pm

goodwitchy wrote:
@ shrox

I'm unfamiliar with the teachings of various religions, and I'm just curious then according to what you wrote, does that mean that Yahweh, even though He created "man and earth", did not understand the creature "man" until He lived as a man?...


If anyone were to say "you don't know what it's like to be us and how hard it is", He can say he does know.



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23 Feb 2012, 5:24 pm

shrox wrote:
goodwitchy wrote:
@ shrox

I'm unfamiliar with the teachings of various religions, and I'm just curious then according to what you wrote, does that mean that Yahweh, even though He created "man and earth", did not understand the creature "man" until He lived as a man?...


If anyone were to say "you don't know what it's like to be us and how hard it is", He can say he does know.


Ah, okay thank you for responding.



Last edited by goodwitchy on 28 Feb 2012, 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Feb 2012, 6:28 pm

shrox wrote:
If anyone were to say "you don't know what it's like to be us and how hard it is", He can say he does know.


I'll let Pulp respond to this one. They weren't singing about God, but it's the same principle:

Quote:
Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school.
But still you'll never get it right
'cos when you're laid in bed at night watching roaches climb the wall
If you call your Dad he could stop it all.
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.


He can't know what it's like to be human, because he can always snap his fingers and become a deity again. He can't understand the doubt and the fear of the future, because he knows what's going to happen. He won't ever worry that he's doing the wrong thing. He can't ever have that nagging doubt that many humans have when praying that no-one is listening.



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23 Feb 2012, 6:52 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:
shrox wrote:
If anyone were to say "you don't know what it's like to be us and how hard it is", He can say he does know.


...He can't know what it's like to be human, because he can always snap his fingers and become a deity again. He can't understand the doubt and the fear of the future, because he knows what's going to happen. He won't ever worry that he's doing the wrong thing. He can't ever have that nagging doubt that many humans have when praying that no-one is listening.


No, he could not! That was the whole point of it all!

Sure, He could have asked his Father to pull him out of it all, but he didn't, even to the point of death. He experienced being human, from zygote to corpse.



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23 Feb 2012, 6:53 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:
shrox wrote:
If anyone were to say "you don't know what it's like to be us and how hard it is", He can say he does know.


I'll let Pulp respond to this one. They weren't singing about God, but it's the same principle:

Quote:
Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school.
But still you'll never get it right
'cos when you're laid in bed at night watching roaches climb the wall
If you call your Dad he could stop it all.
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do.


He can't know what it's like to be human, because he can always snap his fingers and become a deity again. He can't understand the doubt and the fear of the future, because he knows what's going to happen. He won't ever worry that he's doing the wrong thing. He can't ever have that nagging doubt that many humans have when praying that no-one is listening.


Actually, in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus was pretty scared of what he knew was coming. In fact, he prayed so hard that he was supposed to have sweated blood when he prayed to "take this cup from me." Sounds pretty human to me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer