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Sora
away away
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 5650
Location: Europe
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Tuttle wrote: | | Sora wrote: | | OliveOilMom wrote: | | Overload doesn't cause actual physical or lasting mental damage. |
I disagree depending on how exactly you mean this. An overload as in one overload or a few of overloads causing damage in an otherwise healthy individual would be plain weird, yes.
Repeated prolonged episodes of overload can cause damage and will do so even in normal people who were healthy before. The collection of symptoms/disorder commonly called burn-out is a likely result of this pressure but worsening of already present (physical) disorders (especially by affecting the immune system) as well as impairments of mental functions are equally common.
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An example here. I've spent the past few years with most of my time either almost in or barely in overloads (my therapist thinks this at least, and it entirely makes sense). At this point my thyroid is failing faster, I have chronic tension headaches, and I might have developed a second type of migraine because of this.
The overload on its own, in a short situation like a presentation, can do a lot in terms of messing with my opportunities and people's views on myself.
However, the repetitive overload, this constantly being on the edge, has gotten to the point where I have headaches to the point of it hurting to move 15+ days a month. Reducing my stress level isn't enough, if you're dealing with enough tension in muscles, they'll actually act differently for a noticeable while after that point too.
As for the lasting mental damage, how long do you think it needs to last for? How about a meltdown from overload still making me meltdown most times I hear a particular person's voice or most people discussing said person almost a year later?
The aftermaths of meltdowns can be rather complicated. |
When I wrote that post, I wasn't even considering temporary skill loss (and its effect on social interaction and ourselves) or having to recover for a couple of hours to even a couple of days up to two weeks until I went to bed afterwards because such things happening is so common to me and I assume to others too.
| pensieve wrote: | | and motor skills considerably. |
That happens to me too whenever there are too many people at my martial training. I can't remember what I'm supposed to do, I can't talk and explain what's going on when asked, I can't figure out how much room there is to people (I can do that okay usually) and my movements, if I succeed to move without falling at all, are sloppy and it's suddenly become difficult to figure out how to keep straight. I'm still trying to figure out how to manage this because I don't want to drop out.
Anyway, yesterday night I thought that this is a major problem even if it's common. I wonder if that common exposure to this and other things because of autism means that my perception is screwed on that I don't spontaneously consider something that is severe as severe as it actually is just because it happens so often.
My ASD therapist recently asked me if I felt sad or suffered emotionally about that now that I'm talking as much to others people, it became obvious that my language isn't mostly unaffected but simply "not there" a fair amount of time. I thought the question was ridiculous because I'm so used to being me and how my speech does (well to none) every day - perhaps the question wasn't as ridiculous.
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10364
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Rascal77s wrote: |
I'm picking up the meaning just fine. The original post asked if there is a legal right to say no. The fact that the question is one of legal right presumes that the disability has been disclosed to the organization and accommodations have been accepted as part of the agreement between the two parties. If there was no disclosure prior to the incident it's pointless to even have a thread about legal protection because the person has waived his or her legal rights by not disclosing. So by the example given in the OP, why would I agree to get up in front of the audience if my employer or school has been notified I have a disability and can't get up in front of the audience? If I have legally protected myself why should I give a crap about repercussions? I have a moral and legal right to tell them to piss off (in a nice way  ) For your convenience I will paste the OP. |
Actually, not disclosing doesn't waive your rights. You can disclose later and ask for accommodations even if you didn't initially disclose. |
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fraac
Tufted Titmouse
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Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 1865
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| I think so, but I'm glad I didn't (wasn't? I can't remember the form of the question) because if it wasn't for scary stuff I wouldn't have felt anything. |
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Invader
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 17, 2010
Age: 29
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think you should have as much right to avoid an overload as you do to avoid a kick in the face.
But then rights aren't always enforced anyway.
| Jtuk wrote: | I really think you should try your hardest to overcome these stress points. By all means ask for support and to take it slowly, but you really do need to learn to face these situations.
A peanut allergy sufferer can be killed by the allergy or the allergy could be made worse through continued exposure. Giving a presentation will not kill you and with practice you will become more comfortable.
Trust me when I say it's easier to give a planned talk to 100 people than a social interaction with 10, it's the latter that poses the greater problem for aspies.
Good luck, let us know how you get on. You might surprise yourself and find you are really good at it, particularly if you can talk or present on be of your interests!
Jason |
Do you even know what autism is?
It's not simply a psychological condition, it's a biological one.
It doesn't just "go away" if you try hard enough. |
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Jtuk
Phoenix
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Posts: 732
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Invader wrote: |
Do you even know what autism is?
It's not simply a psychological condition, it's a biological one.
It doesn't just "go away" if you try hard enough. |
Anxiety is treatable. Anxiety is not aspergers.
Aspergers wont ever go away, but you can learn coping strategies. These strategies are learned through practice.
Jason. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Jtuk wrote: | | Invader wrote: |
Do you even know what autism is?
It's not simply a psychological condition, it's a biological one.
It doesn't just "go away" if you try hard enough. |
Anxiety is treatable. Anxiety is not aspergers.
Aspergers wont ever go away, but you can learn coping strategies. These strategies are learned through practice.
Jason. |
Even so it is ridiculous to expect every single individual regardless of what difficulties they face to come up with perfect coping skills to make up for all their difficulties.
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Jtuk
Phoenix
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Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Even so it is ridiculous to expect every single individual regardless of what difficulties they face to come up with perfect coping skills to make up for all their difficulties. |
Did I say that?
Jason |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jtuk wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Even so it is ridiculous to expect every single individual regardless of what difficulties they face to come up with perfect coping skills to make up for all their difficulties. |
Did I say that?
Jason |
It seemed you were implying it, sorry if I misunderstood.
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Tuttle
Not a bird, a turtle.
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Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Jtuk wrote: | | Invader wrote: |
Do you even know what autism is?
It's not simply a psychological condition, it's a biological one.
It doesn't just "go away" if you try hard enough. |
Anxiety is treatable. Anxiety is not aspergers.
Aspergers wont ever go away, but you can learn coping strategies. These strategies are learned through practice.
Jason. |
Even so it is ridiculous to expect every single individual regardless of what difficulties they face to come up with perfect coping skills to make up for all their difficulties. |
He never said that people were expected to come up with perfect coping skills, he said people should do the best they can and work on improving themselves (where 'improvement' doesn't necessarily mean 'make more NT' I'd agree with this)
We shouldn't stop and say that because we're autistic we can't change. We should say that because we're autistic we will always be autistic. We should say that we'll do what we can to improve but improvement must help us, not only others comfort in being around us.
I'm seeing a therapist every week to work on improving myself. That doesn't mean I'm trying to get rid of my autism, or that anyone expects me to become perfectly NT. It means that there's someone else who help me figure out how to cope. Someone who teaches me methods that help myself be happier rather than stuck in meltdowns. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tuttle wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Jtuk wrote: | | Invader wrote: |
Do you even know what autism is?
It's not simply a psychological condition, it's a biological one.
It doesn't just "go away" if you try hard enough. |
Anxiety is treatable. Anxiety is not aspergers.
Aspergers wont ever go away, but you can learn coping strategies. These strategies are learned through practice.
Jason. |
Even so it is ridiculous to expect every single individual regardless of what difficulties they face to come up with perfect coping skills to make up for all their difficulties. |
He never said that people were expected to come up with perfect coping skills, he said people should do the best they can and work on improving themselves (where 'improvement' doesn't necessarily mean 'make more NT' I'd agree with this)
We shouldn't stop and say that because we're autistic we can't change. We should say that because we're autistic we will always be autistic. We should say that we'll do what we can to improve but improvement must help us, not only others comfort in being around us.
I'm seeing a therapist every week to work on improving myself. That doesn't mean I'm trying to get rid of my autism, or that anyone expects me to become perfectly NT. It means that there's someone else who help me figure out how to cope. Someone who teaches me methods that help myself be happier rather than stuck in meltdowns. |
I already apologized for misunderstanding, it was just kinda confusing...but yeah I kind of think it is up to the individual which things they would like to improve upon. There is no one size fits all 'you should do this' approach for these kinds of things. Its just from my experience of constantly trying to improve myself and beating myself up when I can't or couldn't in the past....So sometimes I feel like one has to pick their battles than trying to fight them all at once if that makes any sense. But maybe that is more or less in agreement with what was being said.
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FlintsDoorknob
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Nov 04, 2010
Age: 23
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Curious: Do we have a right to avoid overloads? |
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| gnihton wrote: | I was just wondering if Aspies have any kind of legal right to avoid situations that would almost certainly cause on overload. For example: Can a school force you to stand and do some kind of presentation in front of a large quantity of people against your will?
Understand that I am not using that as an example because it's my situation, I am genuinely just curious. I did used to be put in that kind of situation more often than I would have liked before I was diagnosed however, and needless to say it never ended well. |
If you avoid everything that causes a sensory overload, eventually even the tiniest thing out of your control will cause you to have an overload. You have to expose yourself to some of it to some degree. A lot of it is unecessisary, but due to the nature of our society we have to cope with it on our end. I'm not saying it's fair I'm saying that's how it is. If you go your whole life avoiding it, no matter how almost physical painful it is...it's going to get worse because you will have never had any exposure towards it.
I was at a point where hearing someone butter toast downstairs caused me to have anxiety.
I went from that to having to cope to almost 24/7 disruptive disturbing noise at a hospital for 6 months. You doubt your ability to cope because it is easier to assume avoiding will make it better. Deep pressure input is the way to go. Function as well as you need to. You can cope with pretty much anything.
Also it really depends on each individual case and situation. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Curious: Do we have a right to avoid overloads? |
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| FlintsDoorknob wrote: | | gnihton wrote: | I was just wondering if Aspies have any kind of legal right to avoid situations that would almost certainly cause on overload. For example: Can a school force you to stand and do some kind of presentation in front of a large quantity of people against your will?
Understand that I am not using that as an example because it's my situation, I am genuinely just curious. I did used to be put in that kind of situation more often than I would have liked before I was diagnosed however, and needless to say it never ended well. |
If you avoid everything that causes a sensory overload, eventually even the tiniest thing out of your control will cause you to have an overload. You have to expose yourself to some of it to some degree. A lot of it is unecessisary, but due to the nature of our society we have to cope with it on our end. I'm not saying it's fair I'm saying that's how it is. If you go your whole life avoiding it, no matter how almost physical painful it is...it's going to get worse because you will have never had any exposure towards it.
I was at a point where hearing someone butter toast downstairs caused me to have anxiety.
I went from that to having to cope to almost 24/7 disruptive disturbing noise at a hospital for 6 months. You doubt your ability to cope because it is easier to assume avoiding will make it better. Deep pressure input is the way to go. Function as well as you need to. You can cope with pretty much anything.
Also it really depends on each individual case and situation. |
How is avoiding presenting in front of an audience the same thing as 'avoiding everything. Fact is there is really no reason in my opinion to spend a bunch of energy on something that is not required to live life. I mean I think if one has severe social anxiety for instance and is likely to have a panic attack or suffer in other ways if made to get up in front of people to present something it is reasonable for them not to be expected to do so.
Now this individual cannot hope to avoid all social situations, so they would need to learn some coping skills so they can deal with general social interaction they are going to have to deal with in life with less discomfort.
Also It is kind of inaccurate to say anyone can cope with pretty much anything........tell that to everyone who's gotten PTSD, that they could have simply coped with the experience that caused it. Sorry I just could not let that go without saying something because these sorts of issues are important to me for whatever reason.
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AspieOtaku
Leader of the Otaku Legion
Joined: Feb 18, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 5984
Location: Los Altos, California, United States
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I strongly think we should have a right to avoid sensory overloads, but unfortunatly the majority of the populous lack understaniding of our behavior. I wish i could walk off from work to avoid a melt down but instead i have to try and hold it in and wait till break and go to a secluded spot and let it out. Grab an energy drink to give me energy again listen to music hold it in best i can till next break or shift is over then let it out again. If i do not do this i will melt down at work and possibly get written up, or fired for my behavior at least thats what i fear anyway. If i do not vent from time to time the meltdown will get much worse and build up, possibly last for a day or more, negative thoughts will begin to manifest in my head negating my positive thoughts. I usually keep thinking possitive thoughts to prevent from having a meltdown. If negative thoughts keep building up however it gets worse, I myself start to think more negative and get into self hatred mode and get very angry at myself, and eventually want to cause physical harm to my self. Beyond this point it gets rather difficult for me to get out of. 90% of the time I prevent myself from getting to this point, but if further tormented from outsiders or stressed in self hate mode, i get to critical suicidal mode and cannot think as logical only logic is eliminating myself from the planet. This has only happened once and I hope it does not happen again. So to prevent this from happening is trying to find a quiet spot listen to music vent and think possitive thoughts and things get better. |
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Invader
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 17, 2010
Age: 29
Posts: 458
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Jtuk wrote: | | Invader wrote: |
Do you even know what autism is?
It's not simply a psychological condition, it's a biological one.
It doesn't just "go away" if you try hard enough. |
Anxiety is treatable. Anxiety is not aspergers.
Aspergers wont ever go away, but you can learn coping strategies. These strategies are learned through practice.
Jason. |
The thread is about sensory overload, not just typical anxiety, and no, not all anxiety is treatable either, especially when it is the product of a biological condition and not just simple irrational fear.
I think you might be confusing the triviality of your own problems with the severity of the problems faced by people with autism, in your effort to find a diagnosis that you feel you can relate to. It doesn't seem like this is the one. |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2351
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Verdandi wrote: | | Rascal77s wrote: |
I'm picking up the meaning just fine. The original post asked if there is a legal right to say no. The fact that the question is one of legal right presumes that the disability has been disclosed to the organization and accommodations have been accepted as part of the agreement between the two parties. If there was no disclosure prior to the incident it's pointless to even have a thread about legal protection because the person has waived his or her legal rights by not disclosing. So by the example given in the OP, why would I agree to get up in front of the audience if my employer or school has been notified I have a disability and can't get up in front of the audience? If I have legally protected myself why should I give a crap about repercussions? I have a moral and legal right to tell them to piss off (in a nice way ) For your convenience I will paste the OP. |
Actually, not disclosing doesn't waive your rights. You can disclose later and ask for accommodations even if you didn't initially disclose. |
But you're talking about something outside the scope of the question. If he didn't disclose prior to the incident he can't say "oh btw I have AS and can't stand getting in front of crowds" while he is being written up. |
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