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Daemonic-Jackal
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 581
Location: Salford, United Kingdom
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 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | Daemonic-Jackal wrote: | Do some of the women giving 'advice' in this thread really need to be so condescending towards the OP?
Clearly there is room for improvement regarding his attitude but talking down to someone will only make them dig their heels in and stick to their guns even more.
Also remember this.
Confidence cannot be turned on & off like a tap (therefore making sound so simple is illogical) and being lied to isn't very nice. How would you feel if everytime you asked someone out they said they were already spoken for and you knew half of them wasn't being truthful? Oh wait, the same women patronising the OP here, would be the first to complain about it. But there lies the problem, because it's not traditional for women to make the first move, many of them don't know what it's like to be rejected when asking someone out.
By all means give advice, but don't keep putting the boot in and making guys who want to let off a bit of steam feel worse then they already do. |
he has actually been condescending towards the women giving advice. maybe reread the thread?
EDITED to add: and maybe reread his past threads too. we gave him lots and lots and lots and lots of advice. he rejected that advice. he came back to ask for more when things didn't work out. he rejected that advice again. i think you're failing to see the bigger picture. |
Really? Because from what I can see all you've done is pick on his faults and not acknowledge any of his strengths. At least Pastafarian's advice was well balanced. Oh and if you go back and re-read the first page he actually said he took the advice given to him in previous threads and it didn't work. Now either he didn't use the advice correctly or the advice given to him simply wasn't very good either way he stated that he took on board what you and the others said to him and your claim that he rejected the advice is incorrect. The evidence is here.
| Pengu1n wrote: | ^ Actually Hyperlexian, I very much did take the advice from you and everyone else. In fact, I almost internalized it.
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Just because you are one of the older members on here and a moderator it doesn't mean that you know everything and with all due respect I've noticed in a lot of threads on here that you do always try and bring yourself across as a complete know it all. Also instead of now being condescending towards me claiming I'm 'failing to see the bigger picture', & telling me to re-read his previous threads because you say he didn't take others advice (which again the above quote shows to be incorrect) and I've said something you don't agree with perhaps you should start showing the other members on here a little bit more respect.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Daemonic-Jackal wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | Daemonic-Jackal wrote: | Do some of the women giving 'advice' in this thread really need to be so condescending towards the OP?
Clearly there is room for improvement regarding his attitude but talking down to someone will only make them dig their heels in and stick to their guns even more.
Also remember this.
Confidence cannot be turned on & off like a tap (therefore making sound so simple is illogical) and being lied to isn't very nice. How would you feel if everytime you asked someone out they said they were already spoken for and you knew half of them wasn't being truthful? Oh wait, the same women patronising the OP here, would be the first to complain about it. But there lies the problem, because it's not traditional for women to make the first move, many of them don't know what it's like to be rejected when asking someone out.
By all means give advice, but don't keep putting the boot in and making guys who want to let off a bit of steam feel worse then they already do. |
he has actually been condescending towards the women giving advice. maybe reread the thread?
EDITED to add: and maybe reread his past threads too. we gave him lots and lots and lots and lots of advice. he rejected that advice. he came back to ask for more when things didn't work out. he rejected that advice again. i think you're failing to see the bigger picture. |
Really? Because from what I can see all you've done is pick on his faults and not acknowledge any of his strengths. At least Pastafarian's advice was well balanced. Oh and if you go back and re-read the first page he actually said he took the advice given to him in previous threads and it didn't work. Now either he didn't use the advice correctly or the advice given to him simply wasn't very good either way he stated that he took on board what you and the others said to him and your claim that he rejected the advice is incorrect. The evidence is here.
| Pengu1n wrote: | ^ Actually Hyperlexian, I very much did take the advice from you and everyone else. In fact, I almost internalized it.
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Just because you are one of the older members on here and a moderator it doesn't mean that you know everything and with all due respect I've noticed in a lot of threads on here that you do always try and bring yourself across as a complete know it all. Also instead of now being condescending towards me claiming I'm 'failing to see the bigger picture', & telling me to re-read his previous threads because you say he didn't take others advice (which again the above quote shows to be incorrect) and I've said something you don't agree with perhaps you should start showing the other members on here a little bit more respect. |
you are still failing to see the bigger picture. i can see that you still have not gone back and actually read his older threads. other members (not you) spent a significant amount of time helping him in those threads. we remember the history. you, apparently, do not.
by the way, it doesn't really make sense to say "with all due respect" while you are dishing out an insulting post, because obviously if you were being respectful you wouldn't say that. 
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Zinnel
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 03, 2011
Age: 22
Posts: 404
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyStarlightRedux wrote: | | hale_bopp wrote: |
The best relationship doesn't mean a perfect relationship. It's a relationship where you're not open to an "upgrade" because you simply don't want one. |
You mean a compromise?
I think those are healthy in a relationship, since you learn to slowly change little niggles about you, which also happen to your partner as well.
I don't think your core personality will change but some of the worse traits of yours can be hidden better when in a relationship. |
everything in bold is great and shows a great level of maturity for anyone who can understand it 
however trying to hide your "worse traits" will likely just end a relationship before it even starts, its better to just be open about such traits and try and work through them with your partner 
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Daemonic-Jackal
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 581
Location: Salford, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: |
you are still failing to see the bigger picture. i can see that you still have not gone back and actually read his older threads. other members (not you) spent a significant amount of time helping him in those threads. we remember the history. you, apparently, do not.
by the way, it doesn't really make sense to say "with all due respect" while you are dishing out an insulting post, because obviously if you were being respectful you wouldn't say that. |
I never said nobody gave him advice, I just pointed out via his first page quote that your claims he never took on board the advice given to him was inaccurate. Which you chose to ignore because you turn a blind eye to anything you can't answer to. I'm not failing to see the bigger picture, you're failing to acknowledge evidence showing that your claims that he ignored the advice given to him actually isn't true. I haven't seen his previous threads and even if I was to trawl through them it wouldn't change my opinion because I never disputed the fact that others tried to help him, you're sidetracking the subject.
But despite this you still seem to think you know everything, so carry on being condescending and if you can't accept people not always taking your criticism (some of which is fair, some of which is overboard) as gospel then I suggest you take a good hard look in the mirror at yourself.
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Last edited by Daemonic-Jackal on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CrazyStarlightRedux
Fake Kiwi
Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1028
Location: Manchester, UK.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Zinnel wrote: | | CrazyStarlightRedux wrote: | | hale_bopp wrote: |
The best relationship doesn't mean a perfect relationship. It's a relationship where you're not open to an "upgrade" because you simply don't want one. |
You mean a compromise?
I think those are healthy in a relationship, since you learn to slowly change little niggles about you, which also happen to your partner as well.
I don't think your core personality will change but some of the worse traits of yours can be hidden better when in a relationship. |
everything in bold is great and shows a great level of maturity for anyone who can understand it
however trying to hide your "worse traits" will likely just end a relationship before it even starts, its better to just be open about such traits and try and work through them with your partner |
Thanks for the compliment, but I was just asking what she meant by her post as I couldn't understand it properly.
I do agree with this, but what I meant was that through time, they can hide your worse traits about yourself.
Let's say the guy was anti-social for example and met a girl of his dreams, she would get him more outgoing and hopefully (if successful), he would be able to socialise on his own without aid when she isn't around. |
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mds_02
Skank
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 1943
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Daemonic-Jackal wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: |
you are still failing to see the bigger picture. i can see that you still have not gone back and actually read his older threads. other members (not you) spent a significant amount of time helping him in those threads. we remember the history. you, apparently, do not.
by the way, it doesn't really make sense to say "with all due respect" while you are dishing out an insulting post, because obviously if you were being respectful you wouldn't say that. |
I never said nobody gave him advice, I just pointed out via his first page quote that your claims he never took on board the advice given to him was inaccurate. Which you chose to ignore because you turn a blind eye to anything you can't answer to. I'm not failing to see the bigger picture, you're failing to acknowledge evidence showing that your claims that he ignored the advice given to him actually isn't true. I haven't seen his previous threads and even if I was trawl through them it wouldn't change my opinion because I never disputed the fact that others tried to help him, you're sidetracking the subject.
But despite this you still seem to think you know everything, so carry on being condescending. |
People here have given him the only advice they can, they've said what works for them. He's said repeatedly in this thread that he's not going to try the advice he's been given because, basically, it's out of his comfort zone. Because, apparently, staying in his comfort zone has worked for him so far. Then he gets frustrated with the people who give him that advice as though they are the ones responsible for his situation. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Daemonic-Jackal wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: |
you are still failing to see the bigger picture. i can see that you still have not gone back and actually read his older threads. other members (not you) spent a significant amount of time helping him in those threads. we remember the history. you, apparently, do not.
by the way, it doesn't really make sense to say "with all due respect" while you are dishing out an insulting post, because obviously if you were being respectful you wouldn't say that. |
I never said nobody gave him advice, I just pointed out via his first page quote that your claims he never took on board the advice given to him was inaccurate. Which you chose to ignore because you turn a blind eye to anything you can't answer to. I'm not failing to see the bigger picture, you're failing to acknowledge evidence showing that your claims that he ignored the advice given to him actually isn't true. I haven't seen his previous threads and even if I was to trawl through them it wouldn't change my opinion because I never disputed the fact that others tried to help him, you're sidetracking the subject.
But despite this you still seem to think you know everything, so carry on being condescending and if you can't accept people not always taking your criticism (some of which is fair, some of which is overboard) as gospel then I suggest you take a good hard look in the mirror at yourself. |
my first post was a checkup to see which of our advice he had implemented if any. turns out he didn't implement it, as i had suspected. so i tried again, and he rejected it again. and really, you're judging my post based on limited information... so your opinion on that is not particularly well-informed.
i'm going to ask you not to keep derailing the thread with your personal criticism of me. it's dreadfully off-topic.
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hale_bopp
All Kinds of Freak
Joined: Nov 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 14837
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyStarlightRedux wrote: | | hale_bopp wrote: |
The best relationship doesn't mean a perfect relationship. It's a relationship where you're not open to an "upgrade" because you simply don't want one. |
You mean a compromise?
I think those are healthy in a relationship, since you learn to slowly change little niggles about you, which also happen to your partner as well.
I don't think your core personality will change but some of the worse traits of yours can be hidden better when in a relationship. |
No, I mean being so into someone that other people don't interest you.
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Pengu1n
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Wow....
I have had a couple of days to reflect on this, but I can not believe where this thread has gone. In the first place, I refrained from saying this yesterday out of respect, but I feel absolutely insulted by the repeated assertions that I have ignored all of the advice. That is absolutely ludicrous. I feel absolutely patronized as well by suggestions that I "don't know how affection works," and other things like that. I know full well how affection works, and I am absolutely capable of being in a loving relationship. I truly feel in my heart that the biggest barrier to me finding love is just getting past that first step where I cut such a poor 1st impression because of my low projected self-confidence......... I truly KNOW deep down that all of my good qualities will not come out until after the first NT-stages, but once she gets to know me, she will see how great I am.
I just struggle so badly with the "social-proof" aspects in the initial stages, but I know in my heart that the best part of me is found in deeper qualities (not in the shallow blustering of "confident" people.) I know full well I have it in me to have a long-term relationship, and the fact that I may not have "highly crafted social skills" for the ritual has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. I hope people can see what I mean by this.
I definitely know that I have a quiet internal confidence. I feel VERY confident at things I am good at, but my struggle is with the "appearance of confidence." I have had a few people tell me that "I just walk around with my head down, like nothing I do is good enough." I also know I really don't look people in the eye, and I don't smile enough, and perhaps I'm timid at getting words out. I know I don't smile when I am just out and about, so I'm not perceived as being a "fun" guy to be with. To me though, I feel like all of this stuff is superficial. I KNOW I am internally very confident, but again, I don't exhibit social proof of it........ as I have AS, and I don't bluster or jockey for social-position.
I have absolutely taken on everybody's advice in older threads. I also really did consider the advice on this thread to "practice talking to lots of people." However, to me, that is very NTish advice. I've also had parents and teachers all of my life have me practice social skills, but that was to no avail, as my delivery behind the words was so monotone and aspergerish. They would say, "a conversation is just like a game of catch........ you catch the ball, and throw it back."
The problem to me with talking to "lots of people" out of the blue is that I don't hardly see anybody else do it just in public places with strangers. You see mabye the top 2% of the most hyper-social and loquacious NTs who are confident enough and vibrant enough to actually do it, and be crowd-rilers. At the other end of the spectrum, you see mentally-challenged people run up to everybody and anybody to show them their lollipop. The rest of us in the middle just know our place. For me to do this, it would just be weird and unnatural as I don't have superficial things to say to anybody.
Also, I probably talk to like 13 or 14 people every day already just as a part of functioning in life. As I have said before, I have great functional social skills and many encounters each day, but I struggle with abstract social skills and conveying a sense of "fun." Also, even if I was to run up to all sorts of people, there are always those assholes out there who will make a smart remark, and something like this destroys my confidence and can regress me for weeks (to the point where I get almost in tears at home over a conversation gone badly.) I really don't think an overload of practicing would work for me, as I have noticed that I tend to hyper-analyze and break down every aspect of every conversation I have, and then I can break down every sentence, evaluate it all for faux pas, and then get paranoid over real or imagined wrong things I might have said. I'm not capable of just having lots of chats and just letting things "roll off my shoulders."
I made every effort to explain why such a strategy would not be tailored to my idiosyncrasies, as I am an overthinker.......... and my head would explode just from breaking down all of these encounters. It would backfire as every time a chat went "less than perfect," it would torment me and cause me to lock up even more. I would not build confidence, but just feel like an idiot.
Yet...... I hate to say it, but I feel that I was being patronized here, and that some people were upset that I did not just bob my head 'yes', and run out and start doing it like an automaton. I would not even get anything out of it if I just went and started talking to lots of people without thinking on the process behind it. But when I even dared try and respond on it, instead of just doing it, it was insisted that I was just being difficult and not "following advice." I hate to say this, but I've read some other threads, and I also feel like hyperlexian is a bit condescending, patronizing, and a feminist know-it-all.......... again, I especially take offense at the statements that I was ignoring advice, when the exact opposite is true. I am also willing and able to step out of my comfort zone. I feel like I'm just being talked down to with the same crap advice I've heard for years and years.
There's a reason that people like me just don't "get confidence." That kind of NT confidence is just a facade anyway..... arrogant obnoxious bluster I could never pull off.
Finally - and thanks for bearing with me - but I also think that most girls my age don't date out of necessity yet..... they date for "fun." I don't project the image of a "fun guy," really, and I think that is part of the problem. I don't know how to develop a compelling personality. |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9269
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: |
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If you write less unproductive journals (each post of yours is taking half-hour at least) and do more chatting/interacting/talking (any kind of interaction, even online), it would be far more useful.
Do you see all this self-analysis you're writing? They're waste of time. |
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Kjas
Onçinha
Joined: Feb 27, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 4839
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Pastafarians' post on page 8 was easily the best post I have seen on this thread in terms of constructive advice for the OP.
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Pengu1n
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| ^ Mabye I have more to say than just a soundbyte or a one-liner? |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9269
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| ^ did all those long journals get you any closer in having a gf? |
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Pengu1n
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: |
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^ Its not just getting a girlfriend, but its the process of getting a girlfriend. Its like a vacation......... getting there is half the fun.
Just "getting a girlfriend" is not the end-all. |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9269
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| ^^ keep enjoying the half-fun then |
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