Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Aspie_Chav wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | I don't think you can make blanket statements. Some rich people are unethical, just as some ordinary people are unethical. Those would include anyone who knowingly commits white collar or corporate crime, the executives of tobacco companies, those who lobby the government to act in their interest rather than that of society at large etc.
Despite being a socialist, I don't feel that you can say all rich people are unethical. Most would probably feel that they are doing what's right. I disagree with possessing such ridiculously large sums of money (more than you would ever need) and the opulent life-style, but I think that the rich have been socialized not to think about it. They have been socialized not to think about the poor not because they don't care, but simply because they are out of sight and out of mind. They are products of the capitalist system, and it is the system that is to blame for most of their practices that I disapprove of, not the individuals themselves. |
Well said. More or less what I would say but turn it around towards socialism.
The short story I can give is. Once the only job I had was a lowly council worker. Probably the least useful in the office. Never got that programming job I wanted. Then I bought a car, out of boardem. I went to a couple of boots sale to buy things to sell on Amazon, then I specialise in books. Now I sell some books for silly money and my income has doubled. I pay taxes that go back into the economy, and create jobs for the career, Amazon FBA centre, accountent, gas station, car maintainance garage .
We often forget that the rich/super rich create wealth when they either spend or save their money. I should know . Just recently I have sold a book about aeroplane seats for £210 pounds to someone who lived in Wimbledon Vellage. |
that the rich always create wealth for others is as big a blanket statement.
i think the deciding factor here is greed, some companies would sell their mothers for profit where others would rather give up profit in favour of a better service or better wages, often though the two are connected.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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Aspie_Chav
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Age: 39
Posts: 3025
Location: Croydon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Gates and Jobs are exceptional people. What effect do you think money has one average people. Do you think it is anything to do with status. As far as quality of living goes. I would consider my life as good as the rich of the 1920s. |
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Aspie_Chav
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Age: 39
Posts: 3025
Location: Croydon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Oodain wrote: | | Aspie_Chav wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | I don't think you can make blanket statements. Some rich people are unethical, just as some ordinary people are unethical. Those would include anyone who knowingly commits white collar or corporate crime, the executives of tobacco companies, those who lobby the government to act in their interest rather than that of society at large etc.
Despite being a socialist, I don't feel that you can say all rich people are unethical. Most would probably feel that they are doing what's right. I disagree with possessing such ridiculously large sums of money (more than you would ever need) and the opulent life-style, but I think that the rich have been socialized not to think about it. They have been socialized not to think about the poor not because they don't care, but simply because they are out of sight and out of mind. They are products of the capitalist system, and it is the system that is to blame for most of their practices that I disapprove of, not the individuals themselves. |
Well said. More or less what I would say but turn it around towards socialism.
The short story I can give is. Once the only job I had was a lowly council worker. Probably the least useful in the office. Never got that programming job I wanted. Then I bought a car, out of boardem. I went to a couple of boots sale to buy things to sell on Amazon, then I specialise in books. Now I sell some books for silly money and my income has doubled. I pay taxes that go back into the economy, and create jobs for the career, Amazon FBA centre, accountent, gas station, car maintainance garage .
We often forget that the rich/super rich create wealth when they either spend or save their money. I should know . Just recently I have sold a book about aeroplane seats for £210 pounds to someone who lived in Wimbledon Vellage. |
that the rich always create wealth for others is as big a blanket statement.
i think the deciding factor here is greed, some companies would sell their mothers for profit where others would rather give up profit in favour of a better service or better wages, often though the two are connected. |
More often then not, a more efficient company with offer good wages and better services. I offer exceptional service, but I don't do it for the love of my customers, I do it to bring in more money. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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depends on the people really,
i know of real life examples of both extremes,
from a surfer who couldnt be more down to earth to the financial backer of a larger local company who would sell his own mother were she still alive.
as for quality of living, we are certainly at a level where many live better than the kings of old, yet there is still a huge disparity,
dont forget that most rich people didnt become rich alone either, something convenniently forgotten when listing "achievements"
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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simon_says
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The study didnt say all. It just noted some statistically significant bent. |
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AstroGeek
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Oodain wrote: | | Aspie_Chav wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | I don't think you can make blanket statements. Some rich people are unethical, just as some ordinary people are unethical. Those would include anyone who knowingly commits white collar or corporate crime, the executives of tobacco companies, those who lobby the government to act in their interest rather than that of society at large etc.
Despite being a socialist, I don't feel that you can say all rich people are unethical. Most would probably feel that they are doing what's right. I disagree with possessing such ridiculously large sums of money (more than you would ever need) and the opulent life-style, but I think that the rich have been socialized not to think about it. They have been socialized not to think about the poor not because they don't care, but simply because they are out of sight and out of mind. They are products of the capitalist system, and it is the system that is to blame for most of their practices that I disapprove of, not the individuals themselves. |
Well said. More or less what I would say but turn it around towards socialism.
The short story I can give is. Once the only job I had was a lowly council worker. Probably the least useful in the office. Never got that programming job I wanted. Then I bought a car, out of boardem. I went to a couple of boots sale to buy things to sell on Amazon, then I specialise in books. Now I sell some books for silly money and my income has doubled. I pay taxes that go back into the economy, and create jobs for the career, Amazon FBA centre, accountent, gas station, car maintainance garage .
We often forget that the rich/super rich create wealth when they either spend or save their money. I should know . Just recently I have sold a book about aeroplane seats for £210 pounds to someone who lived in Wimbledon Vellage. |
that the rich always create wealth for others is as big a blanket statement.
i think the deciding factor here is greed, some companies would sell their mothers for profit where others would rather give up profit in favour of a better service or better wages, often though the two are connected. |
Agreed. But I take it further. To me it is fundamentally wrong for some people to have so much when others have so little. I'm not saying that the poor should be given an amazing quality of life, but a more livable one at least. I tend to think in terms of needs and reasonable luxuries. I don't think that anyone deserves the quality of life enjoyed by the super rich, not unless a large portion of the global population can also enjoy it. Also, most of the wealth of the rich doesn't circulate around the economy, so it's not all that effective at creating jobs etc. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29317
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| shrox wrote: |
The people that worked on the ideas at PARC considered them ripped off. So yes, someone's blood sweat and tears were stolen. No price on that... |
Why no patent infringement suit?
If I see you coming up with a nifty idea and you do not patent it, I am free to copy what I saw. How do you think Chinese gunpowder got to the Middle East and to Europe?
Human see, human do.
ruveyn |
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AstroGeek
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | shrox wrote: |
The people that worked on the ideas at PARC considered them ripped off. So yes, someone's blood sweat and tears were stolen. No price on that... |
Why no patent infringement suit?
If I see you coming up with a nifty idea and you do not patent it, I am free to copy what I saw. How do you think Chinese gunpowder got to the Middle East and to Europe?
Human see, human do.
ruveyn |
That may be true, but that doesn't necessarily make it right. |
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heavenlyabyss
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 530
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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"In the first of two studies, researchers found that those who drove more expensive cars (an admittedly questionable indicator of economic worth) were more likely to cut off other cars and pedestrians at a busy San Francisco four-way intersection than those who drove older, less-expensive vehicles."
Lololol, 100% true. If you pay attention to going from a wealthy town to a poorer neighborhood, you will notice the difference is quite striking. I always thought this was my imagination but it is the truth and it is very noticeable. When I look at some guy cutting me off going 90 mph its inevitably some prick wearing sunglasses driving a ferrari with slick back hair, talking on a cell phone acting important, thinking they are cool or something. Okay, sorry for the rant, but it is the truth. I do have some pent-up hatred for wealthy pricks, I will admit to it.
Anyway, it is not surprising that we have rich talented people or rich intelligent people - I am talking about people like Andre Agassi who gives to charity, or a mathematic who earns a $1,000,000 prize and turns it down (true life example) The reason is because they have earned their money, they know they have worked for it, and they know they have not screwed anyone over in the process. They are confident enough within themselves to not need artificial reenforcement from green pieces of paper that have no intrinsic value.
The same cannot be said for many wealthy people who were either born into their wealth or ruthlessly stomped over people to get to the top. This is where ethics come in. |
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Tollorin
Lazy Cat
Joined: Jun 15, 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 1637
Location: Sherbrooke,Québec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| One of the reasons could be that the richs suffer less consequence to unethical behaviors, thanks to power and connections. At such, they may feel less responsability to have a ethical behavior. |
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Aspie_Chav
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Age: 39
Posts: 3025
Location: Croydon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: | | Oodain wrote: | | Aspie_Chav wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | I don't think you can make blanket statements. Some rich people are unethical, just as some ordinary people are unethical. Those would include anyone who knowingly commits white collar or corporate crime, the executives of tobacco companies, those who lobby the government to act in their interest rather than that of society at large etc.
Despite being a socialist, I don't feel that you can say all rich people are unethical. Most would probably feel that they are doing what's right. I disagree with possessing such ridiculously large sums of money (more than you would ever need) and the opulent life-style, but I think that the rich have been socialized not to think about it. They have been socialized not to think about the poor not because they don't care, but simply because they are out of sight and out of mind. They are products of the capitalist system, and it is the system that is to blame for most of their practices that I disapprove of, not the individuals themselves. |
Well said. More or less what I would say but turn it around towards socialism.
The short story I can give is. Once the only job I had was a lowly council worker. Probably the least useful in the office. Never got that programming job I wanted. Then I bought a car, out of boardem. I went to a couple of boots sale to buy things to sell on Amazon, then I specialise in books. Now I sell some books for silly money and my income has doubled. I pay taxes that go back into the economy, and create jobs for the career, Amazon FBA centre, accountent, gas station, car maintainance garage .
We often forget that the rich/super rich create wealth when they either spend or save their money. I should know . Just recently I have sold a book about aeroplane seats for £210 pounds to someone who lived in Wimbledon Vellage. |
that the rich always create wealth for others is as big a blanket statement.
i think the deciding factor here is greed, some companies would sell their mothers for profit where others would rather give up profit in favour of a better service or better wages, often though the two are connected. |
Agreed. But I take it further. To me it is fundamentally wrong for some people to have so much when others have so little. I'm not saying that the poor should be given an amazing quality of life, but a more livable one at least. I tend to think in terms of needs and reasonable luxuries. I don't think that anyone deserves the quality of life enjoyed by the super rich, not unless a large portion of the global population can also enjoy it. Also, most of the wealth of the rich doesn't circulate around the economy, so it's not all that effective at creating jobs etc. |
Not completely sure. In my case, I sell expensive goods to the rich, as a result I spend more money the the poor areas that I work. It can either be as a part of my work as as resources or services,or other such as barbers, greasy spoons diner Mitcham, or the local dry cleaners.
One of the reason why China is richer then Africa is because while Africa receive aid, china receive investment. I have more to say on the subject but I got a long drive. |
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VMSmith
a figment of my own imagination
Joined: Apr 18, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 2676
Location: the old country
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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my comrade and i were laughing about this yesterday and we were like well now we have something to back up the claims that we've been making all along. you can't argue with science.  if you are rich you probably got there by stepping on somebody else. |
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peebo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 1627
Location: scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:36 am Post subject: |
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of course they are unethical. if they were ethical they would level the playing field by burning their money and joining the ranks of the poor.
_________________
“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Adam Smith |
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YippySkippy
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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super-rich = government
There's the main problem. |
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AstroGeek
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| YippySkippy wrote: | super-rich = government
There's the main problem. |
And in a true democracy, government = an extension of the people. So that is everyone's money. Meaning that the government isn't rich because you'd have to look at things on a per capita basis.
That said, the US government isn't particularly democratic. |
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