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pastafarian
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 20, 2011
Posts: 542
Location: London
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Asp-Z wrote: | I've flown to loads of places in and out of Europe and I live in the UK. I've never had a pat-down for airport security. I suspect pastafarian is either BSing or is on a watch list  |
I did once get detained flying into Frankfurt airport when the first gulf war was kicking off. People were very twitchy and it was extremely unpleasant time. I was carrying research equipment on my way to the Mainz Max Plank Institute, that to anyone looked like 2 sticks of dynamite and a bag of semtex.
This story is meant to provide credibility, I'm twice your age and have flown hundred and hundreds of times as a research scientist. |
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YippySkippy
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 1516
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have not flown in a few years, but I used to get "randomly" chosen for inspection all the time. I still don't know why, as I am not Muslim or Middle Eastern, I have no criminal history, etc.
I guess I'm just a suspicious-looking character.  |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30234
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| pastafarian wrote: | | Asp-Z wrote: | Good spot Cornflake, I missed that.
I think the fact that the ex head of security for one of the most secure airports in the world called the scanners useless holds a lot more weight, though. |
Quote:
"Admittedly, he only faced the scanner from the front and not from the side.
Which sounds more like a failure of method than a failure of the machine. "
Hey pal, but thats MY point from my first post! |
Well, good. I was referring specifically to the TV show Asp-Z linked, so now that's two failed test cases.
It's still not looking good for the scanners...
_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view. |
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hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3421
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| jojobean wrote: | I have not flown since they introduced the nudie scanners and random pat downs. I heard the abuse stories poring into the ACLU are really bad....like creepy TSA agents targeting attractive women for pat downs and being rather sexually abusive about it, TSA agents doing pat downs on young children and old ladies, and there are many stories on their website of uncalled for abusive behavior.
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I haven't flown since before 911 and will likely never fly again. Just the slim chance that they would give me one of those patdowns/sexual assaults that I've seen videos of upsets me a lot and I would have to refuse that and not get on the plane and hope they wouldn't give me a hard time about it and then face the wrath of whoever paid for my plane ticket if they can't get a refund.
I'd rather not bother. It's not worth the risk. |
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Beauty_pact
Observer
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
Age: 132
Posts: 1249
Location: Svíþjoð
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| hanyo wrote: | I haven't flown since before 911 and will likely never fly again. Just the slim chance that they would give me one of those patdowns/sexual assaults that I've seen videos of upsets me a lot and I would have to refuse that and not get on the plane and hope they wouldn't give me a hard time about it and then face the wrath of whoever paid for my plane ticket if they can't get a refund.
I'd rather not bother. It's not worth the risk. |
Actually, the plane ticket wouldn't be the main problem. If you refuse the nude scans or rape patdowns, and just walk out of there, you will either be arrested and stripped down naked (probably cavity searched, too), or get a hefty fine. It isn't allowed to suddenly regret being there.
Unfortunately, some, including those who want to escape/move out of the fascist country that is the USA, have to leave the country, somehow.... fortunately, there still are cruise ships - for now. What about private planes, though? Anybody knows, and could share this valuable information? It could be very important for some to be aware of, and, to add, threads on Wrong Planet get really good placements in Google's searches, so quite a few non-Wrong Planet people are bound to read this thread. |
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hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3421
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Beauty_pact wrote: | | hanyo wrote: | I haven't flown since before 911 and will likely never fly again. Just the slim chance that they would give me one of those patdowns/sexual assaults that I've seen videos of upsets me a lot and I would have to refuse that and not get on the plane and hope they wouldn't give me a hard time about it and then face the wrath of whoever paid for my plane ticket if they can't get a refund.
I'd rather not bother. It's not worth the risk. |
Actually, the plane ticket wouldn't be the main problem. If you refuse the nude scans or rape patdowns, and just walk out of there, you will either be arrested and stripped down naked (probably cavity searched, too), or get a hefty fine. It isn't allowed to suddenly regret being there.
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I thought it was allowed and remember reading a story where a guy was eventually allowed to leave but they gave him a really hard time about it.
If that's true that is all the more reason to not even bother trying since there is no way I'd strip, allow a cavity search, and I can't afford to pay any fines. That is really messed up that you are expected to submit to what for some people is pretty much a sexual assault just to travel somewhere. |
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NLDblacksmith
Butterfly
Joined: Mar 22, 2012
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| the Bradley International Airport (Hartford-Springfield) in Windsor Locks, Connecticut was the last US international airport to adopt them. I, sadly, remember the first day I saw them.... Up until then I was glad they weren't there. |
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webcam
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 09, 2012
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Of course now that the cat is out of the bag it's gunna be cavity searches for all... the rubber glove budget is going to skyrocket! I'm investing in latex!
Or we may just have to walk through metal detectors too now. |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30234
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| webcam wrote: | Of course now that the cat is out of the bag it's gunna be cavity searches for all... the rubber glove budget is going to skyrocket! I'm investing in latex!
Or we may just have to walk through metal detectors too now. |
Well, I've sometimes made dark jokes about the safest way to fly would apparently be naked, no carry-on luggage at all, strapped in a seat, and only allowed after X-Ray scans and cavity searches.
Wouldn't help airlines much though...
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6775
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| hanyo wrote: | | Beauty_pact wrote: | | hanyo wrote: | I haven't flown since before 911 and will likely never fly again. Just the slim chance that they would give me one of those patdowns/sexual assaults that I've seen videos of upsets me a lot and I would have to refuse that and not get on the plane and hope they wouldn't give me a hard time about it and then face the wrath of whoever paid for my plane ticket if they can't get a refund.
I'd rather not bother. It's not worth the risk. |
Actually, the plane ticket wouldn't be the main problem. If you refuse the nude scans or rape patdowns, and just walk out of there, you will either be arrested and stripped down naked (probably cavity searched, too), or get a hefty fine. It isn't allowed to suddenly regret being there.
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I thought it was allowed and remember reading a story where a guy was eventually allowed to leave but they gave him a really hard time about it.
If that's true that is all the more reason to not even bother trying since there is no way I'd strip, allow a cavity search, and I can't afford to pay any fines. That is really messed up that you are expected to submit to what for some people is pretty much a sexual assault just to travel somewhere. |
I understand what you are saying, but it's not a sexual assault. I get tired of hearing people on the news and stuff compare being scanned or being patted down as rape or something similar. The two things are very different. I'm sure that there are a few people working at the TSA who get a perverse enjoyment out of their jobs doing that, but I would think that the majority do not. That at first they are probably nervous having to pat down total strangers, but after a bit of time it's nothing to them anymore. It's probably like when you work as an Aid in a hospital or nursing home and you have to wipe strangers butts or give them baths. At first it's embarrassing, then after a while it's nothing anymore.
When I go to visit my BIL in prison, I have to be patted down. I also have to be searched. After going through the metal detector, a female guard takes me into a room and we shut the door. I hold my arms out and she pats me down. She runs her hands over the outline of my body, then around my waist and up the insides of my legs and over the crotch area. SHe doesnt poke and prod, she just feels for any items that might be concealed there. If I'm wearing a skirt, I have to lift it up and show her underneath it to prove that I have nothing hidden there and that I do have on hose and a slip (rules for visiting). Then I have to either lift up my shirt, of if I have on a dress, unzip it and pull it down, and pull my bra out and shake it so she can see that I don't have anything hidden in there. I have to take my shoes off and hand them to her so she can look at them and I have to show her the bottom of my feet. If I'm wearing socks I have to take them off and turn them inside out and back again and show her my feet. Then she runs her fingers lightly through my hair making sure nothing is hidden in there, and I open my mouth and she looks inside and moves the inside of my cheeks with a tongue blade. That's all it is. While this is going on we usually talk about whatever we think of to talk about, because he's in prison here in town and the guards are almost all from the town here. To some people, all that she does would seem close to sexual assault. There is nothing sexual about it and while she does have authority over me there at the prison, because she's a guard and I'm a guest, she doesn't seem to take any enjoyment out of it. It's just part of the job because people find all sorts of ways to sneak things in.
It's the same as taking a drug test where somebody has to be in there and watch you. Yes, they actually watch you put the cup between your legs when your on the toilet. Some people sneak other peoples pee in and they want to make sure its yours. Yes they are looking at you "down there" but not "that way".
I think the privacy issues is important but I also think the lives of the people who fly are more important. I don't like to fly anyway because it's in the air and I'm afraid of crashing.
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Frances
What if Jessie's girl was Stacy's mom and her number was 867-5309? |
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hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3421
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:47 am Post subject: |
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It may not be sexual to most people doing it and getting it done but if you are very modest and shy and don't like to be touched it can be a horrifying experience. I've seen a video of a tsa patdown and I haven't been touched that much in over 16 years.
The drug test thing freaks me out too and I'd refuse if someone was going to stand there and watch. I even managed to refuse to let them watch when I was a teenager and doing a 30 day evaluation. Plus I distrust drug tests because when I was a teenager I actually had a false positive in a drug test when I had never tried any drugs at all yet. I think it's been a very long time since I've even been in a situation where anyone wanted to do a drug test. I was thinking about those within the past couple of months because I saw on a tv show where someone had to do a drug test and was watched during and then got in all kinds of trouble after getting a false positive but was eventually cleared when they got their hair tested.
I'll just never fly again. |
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pastafarian
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 20, 2011
Posts: 542
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| hanyo wrote: | It may not be sexual to most people doing it and getting it done but if you are very modest and shy and don't like to be touched it can be a horrifying experience. I've seen a video of a tsa patdown and I haven't been touched that much in over 16 years.
The drug test thing freaks me out too and I'd refuse if someone was going to stand there and watch. I even managed to refuse to let them watch when I was a teenager and doing a 30 day evaluation. Plus I distrust drug tests because when I was a teenager I actually had a false positive in a drug test when I had never tried any drugs at all yet. I think it's been a very long time since I've even been in a situation where anyone wanted to do a drug test. I was thinking about those within the past couple of months because I saw on a tv show where someone had to do a drug test and was watched during and then got in all kinds of trouble after getting a false positive but was eventually cleared when they got their hair tested.
I'll just never fly again. |
Its not sexual assault and I personally find it offensive that people describe it as such, both on behalf of victims of sexual assault, and for victims of terrorism such as the families of Lockerbie and the families of those passengers who lives were ruined forever.
Its not helpful to extrapolate and fuel irrationality with "sexual assault" language. I think the point is that you personally should be treated with more respect for your individual issues (as with many AS). You are hyper sensitive to touch and fearful and that should be understood and allowed for with special processes - if you wish to fly.
Anyone else should just poke up with it. |
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Beauty_pact
Observer
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
Age: 132
Posts: 1249
Location: Svíþjoð
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NarcissusSavage
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 656
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| pastafarian wrote: | | hanyo wrote: | It may not be sexual to most people doing it and getting it done but if you are very modest and shy and don't like to be touched it can be a horrifying experience. I've seen a video of a tsa patdown and I haven't been touched that much in over 16 years.
The drug test thing freaks me out too and I'd refuse if someone was going to stand there and watch. I even managed to refuse to let them watch when I was a teenager and doing a 30 day evaluation. Plus I distrust drug tests because when I was a teenager I actually had a false positive in a drug test when I had never tried any drugs at all yet. I think it's been a very long time since I've even been in a situation where anyone wanted to do a drug test. I was thinking about those within the past couple of months because I saw on a tv show where someone had to do a drug test and was watched during and then got in all kinds of trouble after getting a false positive but was eventually cleared when they got their hair tested.
I'll just never fly again. |
Its not sexual assault and I personally find it offensive that people describe it as such, both on behalf of victims of sexual assault, and for victims of terrorism such as the families of Lockerbie and the families of those passengers who lives were ruined forever.
Its not helpful to extrapolate and fuel irrationality with "sexual assault" language. I think the point is that you personally should be treated with more respect for your individual issues (as with many AS). You are hyper sensitive to touch and fearful and that should be understood and allowed for with special processes - if you wish to fly.
Anyone else should just poke up with it. |
I find your offense offensive! I find it offensive that you dismiss this behavior as anything but sexual assault. I'm offended that you would use victims of terrorism as a emotional tool in an attempt to make a point. I'm offended by your indication that any one type of person should be shown more respect than any other kind of person!
See look, I can get offended by stuff that isn't directed at me too! And I can get offended on behalf of other people without their consent that something is not ok with them too!
If you want, I can match your entrenched close minded approach with my own, it will be about as interesting a conversation as watching paint dry.
You asked for evidence against the machines, and ignored what people provided. And you seem to think that their use of physical groping of an unwanted nature isn't sexual assault...well, it is. If I do not want to be touched in the manner they touch people, and feel it is sexual in nature (And I do consider a full pat down very sexual) and the possibility of it happening to me is real enough to fear it happening...that is by definition; sexual assault.
It doesn't matter if you like it or are indifferent to it...if someone else feels it is unwanted and sexual, by definition it is sexual assault! It also doesn't matter if you don't like that term. But that's what it is.
Fun fact. Lots of people try to convince people to think about thinks in bizarre unrealistic ways or to not notice things they would otherwise take issue with… by using words is a dishonest way like you are making a case for doing. In many countries, where women’s rights are negligible, if a woman gets raped they don't call her a rape victim... they call her an adulteress. and then stone her to death for her sins and the dishonor she brings to her family.
Definitions and what we decide to call what is kind of important, in my humble opinion. Maybe you disagree? I really don't care. What the TSA is doing is still sexual assault. You either get photographed nude, or groped. It's not ok. |
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Beauty_pact
Observer
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
Age: 132
Posts: 1249
Location: Svíþjoð
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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NarcissusSavage,
I was going to reply with something to pastafarian's offensive post, but you said it much better than I would have. I really don't have to add anything, since you said it perfectly. Just wanted to show my support for what you said, with this post. |
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