A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if

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17 Apr 2012, 8:02 pm

abacacus wrote:
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If you really want a segregated state than sure... the religious will soon die off when they refuse to live by reason than by fairy tales.


They won't die off... they don't even believe in their fairy tales... only a handful of them do... The rest just pretend! How can I get you to understand this? I know it was hard for me to figure out, but that's what it is.

They will just continue their social pretense and we will discontinue it. Problem solved. No one will have to be tortured under their system and the people they don't like will be removed to ours where we they can live as equals, the way they were meant to. Not as some second class citizen or slave that's been gulled into ignorance.


If I pretend to kill you, you're still gonna end up hurt.

Pretence or actually foolishness, if the religious want to separate from the Atheists, let 'em. However, I will not budge from my home because a bunch of pompous arses in robes show up and tell me their nonsense dictates I must leave. I don't see why I should have to run from a bunch of ignorant fools that will likely be proven wrong in the end anyway.


You missed the part about them not really believing didn't you...



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17 Apr 2012, 10:51 pm

Even though I would love a logic driven not faith driven government .I feel the stupidity of the average person with good intention would f thing up more than thay are now in the us.



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17 Apr 2012, 10:56 pm

Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.



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18 Apr 2012, 12:23 am

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Saying your an Atheist says you are an outsider to religion. People suddenly think you have moral deficits. They think religion is perfect and they'd rather you be an Atheist so they know who you are, so they will use social pretense on you depending on how naive they are to let you think they respect your choice... Actually they do respect your choice, it is a benefit for them. What they don't respect is you. So yes, it suits them to be tolerant because they can weed you out and make assumption of you that may or may not be true. Too often we subscribe to the social pretense that we are presented with in order to feel like we are part of something bigger. Too often that says the wrong things about us and we don't even understand how. So people can assume the worst of you. Christian to Christian or religious to religious though, they know what each other are saying and know the truth of their religion and how to express that they know. So we never even really know them. We are ignorantly isolated from the rest of our fellow man because of this thing called religion. So as there are so few atheists and those who are atheist often subscribe to a form of atheism that is created by people in support of religion... Atheist living is currently a farce and no different than having a religion. I don't want to support religion. I want my dissent known and I feel that no one should have to learn something in childhood that will be used to make them ignorant in adulthood. Nothing should be taught as a way to make people more ignorant. We are all better off if there aren't ignorant people. We are all better off not believing people are more ignorant than they are. We are all better off when we can communicate and be understood by everyone. Not having this means not really having that freedom we cherish so much. It means no one died for you... So the very people who believe someone died for them at the core of their hearts are the people who are dieing for us. How ironic. It's unsettling to me.


You need to meet better religious people. What you're suggesting would strengthen cultural fear, isolation, and hatred. Religion is not this all-corrupting force you're suggesting it is, and you're hardly helping your cause by repeatedly insisting that coexistence is impossible and undesirable. Have you honestly never met or heard of a single religious person that you respect? I know I have. Don't throw them all under the bus just because the majority of them suck. The majority of any given population sucks anyway.



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18 Apr 2012, 8:03 am

mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Religion has never been the problem. I would ban fundamentalism. On the other hand, relatively organized, moderated versions of religion are not the source of the problem. Some of them, like the LDS Mormons, can be a nuisance toward certain minorities, but they do not act with the unrestrained, unmoderated viciousness and spite of fundamentalist Christians of the ultra-charismatic stripe.

Pentacostals in Middle America are not joking when they talk about a "spiritual war," but they are a growing terrorist threat that we have been ignoring. When they can no longer get their agenda into mainstream politics, they will resort to violence. It is not an if/maybe thing: when they have realized that they no longer rule the roost, they are going to become militant and dangerous, and nothing is being done to prepare for it or to hedge against it. We are going to have the same problem that Central Asia has, which is relatively level-headed religious people and the odd atheist having to contend with a menace to society that is determined to destroy everything they can because they think that it might summon their messiah for them to do so. It's going to get worse.

But no, I would not outright ban religion, just fundamentalism.



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18 Apr 2012, 10:42 am

Example:

blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


We shouldn't tolerate things like this. You obviously don't even know why you'd really be killing these people. If one would kill in ignorance it would not be a good sign. This is how the religious people win moral arguments. People suggesting either death camps for the religious or religion in Atheist cities need to be debriefed on religion and kept in confinement until they understand what is happening. We don't allow ignorance of religion in A. land.



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18 Apr 2012, 10:44 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Religion has never been the problem. I would ban fundamentalism. On the other hand, relatively organized, moderated versions of religion are not the source of the problem. Some of them, like the LDS Mormons, can be a nuisance toward certain minorities, but they do not act with the unrestrained, unmoderated viciousness and spite of fundamentalist Christians of the ultra-charismatic stripe.

Pentacostals in Middle America are not joking when they talk about a "spiritual war," but they are a growing terrorist threat that we have been ignoring. When they can no longer get their agenda into mainstream politics, they will resort to violence. It is not an if/maybe thing: when they have realized that they no longer rule the roost, they are going to become militant and dangerous, and nothing is being done to prepare for it or to hedge against it. We are going to have the same problem that Central Asia has, which is relatively level-headed religious people and the odd atheist having to contend with a menace to society that is determined to destroy everything they can because they think that it might summon their messiah for them to do so. It's going to get worse.

But no, I would not outright ban religion, just fundamentalism.


You still don't understand. If you can't see through religion, you being harmed by it. You need to take a closer look. If you have any questions PM me.



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18 Apr 2012, 11:14 am

blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn



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18 Apr 2012, 11:36 am

ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


So if someone is harming someone ignorantly is that better than someone who is harming another purposefully? I think Amish need to be woken up. We can't let them live in such ignorance. Nor can we allow them to propagate their ignorance onto future generations. Even they need to be set free.



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18 Apr 2012, 11:45 am

webcam wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Religion has never been the problem. I would ban fundamentalism. On the other hand, relatively organized, moderated versions of religion are not the source of the problem. Some of them, like the LDS Mormons, can be a nuisance toward certain minorities, but they do not act with the unrestrained, unmoderated viciousness and spite of fundamentalist Christians of the ultra-charismatic stripe.

Pentacostals in Middle America are not joking when they talk about a "spiritual war," but they are a growing terrorist threat that we have been ignoring. When they can no longer get their agenda into mainstream politics, they will resort to violence. It is not an if/maybe thing: when they have realized that they no longer rule the roost, they are going to become militant and dangerous, and nothing is being done to prepare for it or to hedge against it. We are going to have the same problem that Central Asia has, which is relatively level-headed religious people and the odd atheist having to contend with a menace to society that is determined to destroy everything they can because they think that it might summon their messiah for them to do so. It's going to get worse.

But no, I would not outright ban religion, just fundamentalism.


You still don't understand. If you can't see through religion, you being harmed by it. You need to take a closer look. If you have any questions PM me.
Taking away the religion would not resolve the root problem of poor habits of thinking. Taking away an anthropomorphic deity wouldn't cure the vanity out of which it grows. Taking away the soul would not do the work of training people to distinguish between abstract constructs and concrete reality. If you were to take away the Torah, people would just turn to another source of easy, pithy answers when confronted with a moral dilemma.

Sloth, vanity, sloppiness and cowardice are the root problems associated with religious fundamentalism. If you were to eliminate those problems, religion as it remained would be relatively manageable. Trying to eliminate religion is a waste of resources. As soon as you were to cut off one head, another would take its place. The real monster is something else entirely.

The only viable method of eliminating the harm that seems to be associated with religion is to try to educate people in the dangers of cutting corners in their reasoning or allowing their reasoning to be directed by base motives. It's the only way.



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18 Apr 2012, 11:48 am

ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


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18 Apr 2012, 11:50 am

abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


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18 Apr 2012, 11:59 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
webcam wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Religion has never been the problem. I would ban fundamentalism. On the other hand, relatively organized, moderated versions of religion are not the source of the problem. Some of them, like the LDS Mormons, can be a nuisance toward certain minorities, but they do not act with the unrestrained, unmoderated viciousness and spite of fundamentalist Christians of the ultra-charismatic stripe.

Pentacostals in Middle America are not joking when they talk about a "spiritual war," but they are a growing terrorist threat that we have been ignoring. When they can no longer get their agenda into mainstream politics, they will resort to violence. It is not an if/maybe thing: when they have realized that they no longer rule the roost, they are going to become militant and dangerous, and nothing is being done to prepare for it or to hedge against it. We are going to have the same problem that Central Asia has, which is relatively level-headed religious people and the odd atheist having to contend with a menace to society that is determined to destroy everything they can because they think that it might summon their messiah for them to do so. It's going to get worse.

But no, I would not outright ban religion, just fundamentalism.


You still don't understand. If you can't see through religion, you being harmed by it. You need to take a closer look. If you have any questions PM me.
Taking away the religion would not resolve the root problem of poor habits of thinking. Taking away an anthropomorphic deity wouldn't cure the vanity out of which it grows. Taking away the soul would not do the work of training people to distinguish between abstract constructs and concrete reality. If you were to take away the Torah, people would just turn to another source of easy, pithy answers when confronted with a moral dilemma.

Sloth, vanity, sloppiness and cowardice are the root problems associated with religious fundamentalism. If you were to eliminate those problems, religion as it remained would be relatively manageable. Trying to eliminate religion is a waste of resources. As soon as you were to cut off one head, another would take its place. The real monster is something else entirely.

The only viable method of eliminating the harm that seems to be associated with religion is to try to educate people in the dangers of cutting corners in their reasoning or allowing their reasoning to be directed by base motives. It's the only way.


Immortality would give us all the time we needed to get it all figured out now wouldn't it? So out with religion and in with immortality. Let age and death be a thing of the past. Instead we need to teach this kind of thing in school and assign people with grades that actually reflect how well they are getting it. Ethics should be it's own class from year to year where kids attain color coded rank and status. So when people are behind they know it and can work harder. Religion just makes things worse. Getting every kid through the gates of 'heaven' should take higher priority than segregating them as adults and leading them to death in ignorance. No one should live like that and no system should deny people the experiences of life.



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18 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


at least they urge their youngsters to experience life outside their religion before they chose.


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18 Apr 2012, 12:15 pm

Oodain wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


at least they urge their youngsters to experience life outside their religion before they chose.


But they are still subject to what amounts to being an even greater social pretense than what they experienced in the Amish world. They come out and see Jesus on the 100 foot screen of a mega church and think they are seeing visions from heaven. If what they experience here doesn't cement them into religion... they're gunna be pretty pissed off... They need intervention.



Last edited by webcam on 18 Apr 2012, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Apr 2012, 12:31 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


As you say, that's more them being an isolated and somewhat closed community than them being Amish.


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A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.