A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if

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Joker
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16 Apr 2012, 7:01 pm

Where would you put all of the religious? The middel east their are so many religions in the world some of them don't do any harm at all like wicca you never see them doing anything evil they just practice their faith in peace.



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16 Apr 2012, 7:51 pm

Joker wrote:
You can not create a entire state for the religious do you know how many religions their are in the world? It would not be possible to fit them all on one side and the non theists on another side it wouldn't work.


Zoning laws. Perhaps there will be fewer Atheists, but in time their population may grow and people will have the opportunity to live outside of it and will leave, some may even leave Atheism. When one population grows, you allocate more land to them or create zones that allow both. Of course there will be limits on the minimum size of either to preserve both cultures, but let the population dictate the size and allotment of space for development and allow the government to make land and real estate exchanges where property is deemed to be of equal value, this way, both states can support their population. It will be similar to a student exchange program where the exchange is permanent.

Say Charlie Atheist lives in religious land and Christian Lyria lives in Atheist land. Both own property and have jobs and have applied to move to the other side. Each person switches living arrangements and lives in the other land. People living in mixed populations would be considered visitors.

Say there are more Atheists wishing to move to Atheist land or visa versa... A residence would become an Atheist residence as soon as someone applied with the Atheists to become one. Thus they could receive a court exchange for a property near Atheist cities. Rinse and repeat and sooner or later you will have segregation that is determined by the community they wish to live with. No one would feel as though they are an outsider and no one would have to live under system they did not like. The sanctity of life and existence would be preserved. If Christians built huge mansions outside of Atheist cities to raise the land value and restrict freedom from religion, the mansions could be traded for lots of smaller properties and many Atheists could live there. If Real Estate values became considerably different in any given area, the government could make adjustments using the fractional reserve system.

Each state, religious and Atheist would receive an equal vote in the Federal government regardless of population.

A person found to be lying about their religion or Atheism to damage the segregation of society could be tried as a spy and instantly impeached from any branch of office by the Head of Religion or Head of Atheism. These positions would be by appointment and appointments would be made by the incumbent. Both must have been born in the state of their office from families who are of the same society which they are to be appointed as Head.



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16 Apr 2012, 8:01 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
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How about my suggestion of a segregated state where religion gets to live in towns specifically noted for allowing religion and Atheism could live in other towns. The laws of the religious would have bearing only unto themselves and not to atheists. The two societies would live with their own laws as different states under a Federation which would specifically protect all life and be otherwise limited.


Or people could tough it out and learn one way or another that they can live together without having to kill each other instead of sending everyone off to live in their own communities where they won't have to (god forbid) coexist with people who think differently than they do.


No... this won't work. Because and Atheist will still not get to live by Atheist law and outside of social pretense. Maybe during the period of transition, Atheists could have their own laws and their tax structure, but the very existence of religion compromises the Atheist way of life because the religious will never treat an Atheist with the same opportunity and respect that they would another religious person and they will interfere with the families of Atheists. True Atheists that reject social pretense are generally isolated, there are more pseudo-Atheist establishments than there are actual Atheist establishments and Atheists will always be treated like they are the enemy to preserve the religious culture. It is a prime example of a minority inequality. The religious speak a language that requires one to play along to communicate and if they don't want to play along and thus support a system they don't agree with, they aren't given equal opportunity of expression.

Perhaps companies could be required to hire and promote Atheists at equal pay rates as part of affirmative action? This might work, but still, getting a date could be hard, the same with making friends who feel the way you do about things and affirm your feelings.



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16 Apr 2012, 8:04 pm

Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious? The middel east their are so many religions in the world some of them don't do any harm at all like wicca you never see them doing anything evil they just practice their faith in peace.


They contribute to social pretense.

Anyone who actually believes that people believe beyond the age of 12 is being abused by social pretense.



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16 Apr 2012, 8:18 pm

If you really want a segregated state than sure... the religious will soon die off when they refuse to live by reason than by fairy tales.


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16 Apr 2012, 11:24 pm

Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?


Antarctica.


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roronoa79
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17 Apr 2012, 1:09 am

webcam wrote:
No... this won't work. Because and Atheist will still not get to live by Atheist law and outside of social pretense. Maybe during the period of transition, Atheists could have their own laws and their tax structure, but the very existence of religion compromises the Atheist way of life because the religious will never treat an Atheist with the same opportunity and respect that they would another religious person and they will interfere with the families of Atheists. True Atheists that reject social pretense are generally isolated, there are more pseudo-Atheist establishments than there are actual Atheist establishments and Atheists will always be treated like they are the enemy to preserve the religious culture. It is a prime example of a minority inequality. The religious speak a language that requires one to play along to communicate and if they don't want to play along and thus support a system they don't agree with, they aren't given equal opportunity of expression.


Or government could simply be secularized--as it should be (and in some places already is). It is not as though there is a cross-cultural religious alliance against atheists. You give far too little credit to the ability of the religious to be tolerant and accepting of atheists (and anyone from any other religion). They are not all as ignorant as you suggest.

webcam wrote:
Perhaps companies could be required to hire and promote Atheists at equal pay rates as part of affirmative action? This might work, but still, getting a date could be hard, the same with making friends who feel the way you do about things and affirm your feelings.


This would be an infringement of personal liberties. Private businesses can hire or not hire whoever they want to.

What has led you to so strongly doubt the ability of peoples to coexist?



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17 Apr 2012, 1:50 am

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Rocky wrote:
No, I would not ban religion if I ran the government. People should be able to pursue religion if they want to. Besides, it has been tried, and has only succeeded in driving it underground.

Hopefully, all people will eventually evolve beyond "belief without reason." Government can not, nor should not attempt to mandate this evolution.

Other posts in this thread have effectively dealt with the notion that the USA was established as some sort of Theocracy.

On the tax question, I would say that those parts of Church activity which are charitable should not be taxed. The rest should be taxed.

I must again point you to the segregated society model I discussed earlier... there would be no underground, just freedom of religion on one side, and freedom from religion on the other... everyone is happy. Of course the religious side may wind up being alot like the DPRK in claiming that they own both sides... Though I guess that isn't a perfect analogy given that the DPRK is primarily Atheist.


One could argue that the head of state is their deity, even if it is not explicitly stated as such.



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17 Apr 2012, 2:52 am

I think that the teaching of any ridiculous superstition (including religion) to the under 18s should be banned. When they reach adulthood let them make their own minds up whether they want to believe in the silly nonesense.



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17 Apr 2012, 3:10 am

mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?


That depends on the religion. Some religious organisations need to be criminally investigated and shut down, imho.



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17 Apr 2012, 7:41 pm

abacacus wrote:
If you really want a segregated state than sure... the religious will soon die off when they refuse to live by reason than by fairy tales.


They won't die off... they don't even believe in their fairy tales... only a handful of them do... The rest just pretend! How can I get you to understand this? I know it was hard for me to figure out, but that's what it is.

They will just continue their social pretense and we will discontinue it. Problem solved. No one will have to be tortured under their system and the people they don't like will be removed to ours where we they can live as equals, the way they were meant to. Not as some second class citizen or slave that's been gulled into ignorance.



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17 Apr 2012, 7:43 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?


Antarctica.


Speak for yourself. I'd just dedicate cities for Atheism. No need to move the majority. The minority can move to their freedom as the early American's did.



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17 Apr 2012, 7:49 pm

webcam wrote:
abacacus wrote:
If you really want a segregated state than sure... the religious will soon die off when they refuse to live by reason than by fairy tales.


They won't die off... they don't even believe in their fairy tales... only a handful of them do... The rest just pretend! How can I get you to understand this? I know it was hard for me to figure out, but that's what it is.

They will just continue their social pretense and we will discontinue it. Problem solved. No one will have to be tortured under their system and the people they don't like will be removed to ours where we they can live as equals, the way they were meant to. Not as some second class citizen or slave that's been gulled into ignorance.


If I pretend to kill you, you're still gonna end up hurt.

Pretence or actually foolishness, if the religious want to separate from the Atheists, let 'em. However, I will not budge from my home because a bunch of pompous arses in robes show up and tell me their nonsense dictates I must leave. I don't see why I should have to run from a bunch of ignorant fools that will likely be proven wrong in the end anyway.


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Velociraptor
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17 Apr 2012, 7:58 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
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No... this won't work. Because and Atheist will still not get to live by Atheist law and outside of social pretense. Maybe during the period of transition, Atheists could have their own laws and their tax structure, but the very existence of religion compromises the Atheist way of life because the religious will never treat an Atheist with the same opportunity and respect that they would another religious person and they will interfere with the families of Atheists. True Atheists that reject social pretense are generally isolated, there are more pseudo-Atheist establishments than there are actual Atheist establishments and Atheists will always be treated like they are the enemy to preserve the religious culture. It is a prime example of a minority inequality. The religious speak a language that requires one to play along to communicate and if they don't want to play along and thus support a system they don't agree with, they aren't given equal opportunity of expression.


Or government could simply be secularized--as it should be (and in some places already is). It is not as though there is a cross-cultural religious alliance against atheists. You give far too little credit to the ability of the religious to be tolerant and accepting of atheists (and anyone from any other religion). They are not all as ignorant as you suggest.

webcam wrote:
Perhaps companies could be required to hire and promote Atheists at equal pay rates as part of affirmative action? This might work, but still, getting a date could be hard, the same with making friends who feel the way you do about things and affirm your feelings.


This would be an infringement of personal liberties. Private businesses can hire or not hire whoever they want to.

What has led you to so strongly doubt the ability of peoples to coexist?


Saying your an Atheist says you are an outsider to religion. People suddenly think you have moral deficits. They think religion is perfect and they'd rather you be an Atheist so they know who you are, so they will use social pretense on you depending on how naive they are to let you think they respect your choice... Actually they do respect your choice, it is a benefit for them. What they don't respect is you. So yes, it suits them to be tolerant because they can weed you out and make assumption of you that may or may not be true. Too often we subscribe to the social pretense that we are presented with in order to feel like we are part of something bigger. Too often that says the wrong things about us and we don't even understand how. So people can assume the worst of you. Christian to Christian or religious to religious though, they know what each other are saying and know the truth of their religion and how to express that they know. So we never even really know them. We are ignorantly isolated from the rest of our fellow man because of this thing called religion. So as there are so few atheists and those who are atheist often subscribe to a form of atheism that is created by people in support of religion... Atheist living is currently a farce and no different than having a religion. I don't want to support religion. I want my dissent known and I feel that no one should have to learn something in childhood that will be used to make them ignorant in adulthood. Nothing should be taught as a way to make people more ignorant. We are all better off if there aren't ignorant people. We are all better off not believing people are more ignorant than they are. We are all better off when we can communicate and be understood by everyone. Not having this means not really having that freedom we cherish so much. It means no one died for you... So the very people who believe someone died for them at the core of their hearts are the people who are dieing for us. How ironic. It's unsettling to me.



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17 Apr 2012, 8:01 pm

piroflip wrote:
I think that the teaching of any ridiculous superstition (including religion) to the under 18s should be banned. When they reach adulthood let them make their own minds up whether they want to believe in the silly nonesense.


Still too damaging in my opinion. People can still express their beliefs and poison people for the future. I'd prefer banning religion outside of the home. No expression of religion anywhere someone under the age of 35 might be exposed to it sounds much better to me.



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17 Apr 2012, 8:02 pm

abacacus wrote:
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abacacus wrote:
If you really want a segregated state than sure... the religious will soon die off when they refuse to live by reason than by fairy tales.


They won't die off... they don't even believe in their fairy tales... only a handful of them do... The rest just pretend! How can I get you to understand this? I know it was hard for me to figure out, but that's what it is.

They will just continue their social pretense and we will discontinue it. Problem solved. No one will have to be tortured under their system and the people they don't like will be removed to ours where we they can live as equals, the way they were meant to. Not as some second class citizen or slave that's been gulled into ignorance.


If I pretend to kill you, you're still gonna end up hurt.

Pretence or actually foolishness, if the religious want to separate from the Atheists, let 'em. However, I will not budge from my home because a bunch of pompous arses in robes show up and tell me their nonsense dictates I must leave. I don't see why I should have to run from a bunch of ignorant fools that will likely be proven wrong in the end anyway.


You missed the part about them not really believing didn't you...