auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18236
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
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 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| edgar cayce had a lot to say on the matter. his Association for Research and Enlightenment [virginia beach, VA] is a repository of his writings, for anybody who cares to google him. another interesting one is the late robert monroe, whose Monroe Institute is a repository of his writings as well as a new age laboratory/campus. |
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Shatbat
Fénix
Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 4088
Location: South America
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:30 am Post subject: |
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I've thought about it quite a lot of times, and the better explanation I've come up is this. I'm drawing a paralell with that time where I was at bed talking with my sister, feeling very sleepy, and when I blinked, the moment I opened my eyes again my room was dark and my sister had left, and when I looked at the clock several hours had passed. But for my consciousness, those hours were effectively much less than a second. The moment we die, we'll lose consciousness and time will lose it's meaning, and that's where I think, is there something in the other side, when we wake up again? Even though our memories were not preserved at all, would our consciousness be alive again?
This sounds very solipsist, and it probably is, but I believe that the moment I cease to exist, the universe will also cease to exist from my point of view, as I won't be there to observe it. So is it possible to spend an eternity, a big, whole eternity, not existing? Or after years, milennia, aeons... will we be conscious again?
I hope I expressed well what I meant, and made myself understood. I don't understand fully this concept myself.
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Verily I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws. - Nietzsche |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:39 am Post subject: |
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If I was to die I would want to come back as a snake  |
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JNathanK
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 29, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Reincarnation Mathematically/Physically Possible? |
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| bizboy1 wrote: | Has anyone else thought about reincarnation (for lack of a better word)? Does anyone have a physical explanation that differs from a mathematical one?
Also, side note: Is anyone interested in quantum consciousness? |
The Buddhists had a similar term that you might find more to your liking, "rebirth". Unlike "reincarnation", the term doesn't necessarily imply a transmigration of the soul, just a shifting of old forms into new forms, or a re-manifesting of matter and energy.
There was a set of pre-conditions that lead to us coming about. Those conditions had a probability of happening, I imagine a very slight one. However, the universe is going to go on forever and ever, and the slight probability of us re-manifesting in the same or similar way is bound to occur again, given an eternity to run through an infinite number of variables.
...and yah, I'm interested in quantum consciousness. Being that electrical activity in the brain is responsible for consciousness and that the behavior of electrons is determined by quantum properties, I think its very possible there's a quantum explanation behind consciousness.
The problem with consciousness and scientific inquiry is that its a purely subjective phenomenon, and science is an objective discipline. If you think about it, though, all science is based in subjective experience that's been comparatively measured against the subjective experience of others. Science really wouldn't be able to exist without conscious experience, although science itself can't really get to the core of what awareness is. Its really enigmatic.
I think the phenomena is ineffable though. It can't be fully modeled with human language, as science and religion seek to do with all or most things. There's some things that can only be directly experienced, and if there is an attempt to model them linguistically, its best accomplished through poetry. |
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ruveyn
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Age: 76
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: |
This is true, however purely on a physical level I don't think that would apply. |
the physical level is the ONLY level. All of existence is physical. There is nothing else.
ruveyn |
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b9
whatever..
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 8373
Location: australia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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one thing that is peculiar to living consciousnesses is the idea of separation from the rest of reality.
the universe is a completely integrated and homogenous continuum, and the consciousnesses that people have which refer to themselves as "I am" as opposed to "other" lives which are referred to as "they" is an illusion i believe.
if a droplet falls onto the surface of the ocean, then in many cases it will retain it's own surface tension for a while, and it will be separate from the ocean, but after a small while, the droplets surface bubble skin will pop, and then it will again coalesce with the ocean and will be torn apart as currents draw all it's atoms in different directions.
such is life (and death) i think.
i do not believe in reincarnation because my soul will be so dilute when my droplet's surface tension pops (i die) and merges with the turbulent ocean of existence.
how can i ever be retracted from the realm of infinity once i dissolve into it? |
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JNathanK
Phoenix
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Age: 26
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| b9 wrote: | one thing that is peculiar to living consciousnesses is the idea of separation from the rest of reality.
the universe is a completely integrated and homogenous continuum, and the consciousnesses that people have which refer to themselves as "I am" as opposed to "other" lives which are referred to as "they" is an illusion i believe.
if a droplet falls onto the surface of the ocean, then in many cases it will retain it's own surface tension for a while, and it will be separate from the ocean, but after a small while, the droplets surface bubble skin will pop, and then it will again coalesce with the ocean and will be torn apart as currents draw all it's atoms in different directions.
such is life (and death) i think.
i do not believe in reincarnation because my soul will be so dilute when my droplet's surface tension pops (i die) and merges with the turbulent ocean of existence.
how can i ever be retracted from the realm of infinity once i dissolve into it? |
I agree with much of this, but in terms of the last sentence, I think that given an infinity, anything that's possible, no matter how slight the probability, is bound to happen again and again. I don't think anything happens once. Everything that's possible happens at varying rates of probability. Like there might be a 1 in a trillion chance of a given thing happening, but given an eternity, that thing will continue to manifest again and again to the end of time, just at a trillionth the rate of whatever manifests or is present most commonly. |
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bizboy1
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Joined: Mar 24, 2012
Posts: 945
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | abacacus wrote: |
This is true, however purely on a physical level I don't think that would apply. |
the physical level is the ONLY level. All of existence is physical. There is nothing else.
ruveyn |
I believe there are two sets: Set A, materialism, and set B, spirituality. We live our lives mostly in Set A, while rarely drifting into AB or B. If all you know and experience is set A, it is hard to comprehend and believe in set AB, B. I guess that's faith. So it's easy and understandable to say materialism is the only reality. I agree that existence is physical if you mean the existence that we know. But I believe there is an existence beyond this existence that is more than physical. I believe that consciousness is not derived from physical matter (contrary to how I defined it earlier). Do I have proof? Well not exactly. What convinced me was a near death experience. To me that was enough evidence/proof to look into the notion that consciousness is not derived from matter. Having my experience, I believe I was in Set AB or B. That experience definitely changed me from being a materialist to being a spiritualist. Modern science cannot explain near death experiences. And that doesn't make my claim true, but it does make me skeptical of scientific claims regarding such experiences. I'm really interested in quantum consciousness because I want and hope that there is a scientific explanation for god/spirituality. I think there is. I just hope that the field of quantum consciousness doesn't become hogwash.
Last edited by bizboy1 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Neuromancer
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Posts: 1061
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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perhaps we are living at a matrix. In this case, at the end we will probably read the message: game over, and restart it once more 
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bizboy1
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Shatbat
Fénix
Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 4088
Location: South America
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| JNathanK wrote: |
I think that given an infinity, anything that's possible, no matter how slight the probability, is bound to happen again and again. I don't think anything happens once. Everything that's possible happens at varying rates of probability. Like there might be a 1 in a trillion chance of a given thing happening, but given an eternity, that thing will continue to manifest again and again to the end of time, just at a trillionth the rate of whatever manifests or is present most commonly. |
Well, that thought strengthens my beliefs. If I gained consciousness once, I probably can gain it again no matter how small the chance, and in an infinite amount of time I may!
Such a shame that doesn't account for remembering my present life though.
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Verily I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws. - Nietzsche |
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bizboy1
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Posts: 945
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Shatbat wrote: | | JNathanK wrote: |
I think that given an infinity, anything that's possible, no matter how slight the probability, is bound to happen again and again. I don't think anything happens once. Everything that's possible happens at varying rates of probability. Like there might be a 1 in a trillion chance of a given thing happening, but given an eternity, that thing will continue to manifest again and again to the end of time, just at a trillionth the rate of whatever manifests or is present most commonly. |
Well, that thought strengthens my beliefs. If I gained consciousness once, I probably can gain it again no matter how small the chance, and in an infinite amount of time I may!
Such a shame that doesn't account for remembering my present life though. |
Would you really value life if you remembered it? If you were reborn a slave and you knew there's a possibility that you can return as a king, then why not kill yourself? Or if you knew you would be reborn, then maybe you wouldn't value your life or your family and friends much.
Also, I think you are misinterpreting infinity. If the probability of an event goes to zero, it's not going to happen. This may be the case with consciousness. Not only that but there are constraints that nature gives us that further complicates these types of questions. My reasoning had to do with probabilities > 0, which may not be the case. If the universe isn't infinite (I've heard it isn't) or a set of infinite sets (parallel/multiverse) and each universe had the same properties needed for our consciousness, then this may never be the case (I think).
Last edited by bizboy1 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CrazyCatLord
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Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Even if there was an exact copy of your consciousness at some point in the future, it wouldn't be you, meaning that you wouldn't experience that person's life.
Imagine there was an exact duplicate of you. Right now, standing next to you. Would you see the world through four eyes and think with two brains? Would you be in two places at once if your duplicate left the room? Of course not. You -- the conscious, self-aware individual -- is a product of the one single brain that resides within your skull. You can't experience the life of other individuals, no matter how much they have in common with you.
What this all boils down to is that you are not immortal, and you'll have to come to terms with that idea sooner or later. It's sad how much time and brain power is wasted on desperate intellectual attempts to rationalize our inevitable death away. The world could be a much nicer place if everyone simply accepted the inevitable and tried to make the very best of their one shot at existence. |
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auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18236
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | If I was to die I would want to come back as a snake |
transmigration from higher to lower spiritual forms is a no-no. people way smarter than me say that life evolves forwards towards a greater goal. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| auntblabby wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | If I was to die I would want to come back as a snake |
transmigration from higher to lower spiritual forms is a no-no. people way smarter than me say that life evolves forwards towards a greater goal. |
True but say I was a bad person I guess coming back as a snake would make since no? |
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