When I practice I often go through a few hundred bullets per day and that's with a bolt action rifle or a pump. If I was firing semi-auto or full auto I could probably go through about 1000. Not that I own weapons that fire semi-auto or full auto.
I might be inclined to ask if hollows are the best bullets for practice but other than that.
I think they are standard issue in most law enforcement organisations around the world. I believe the argument given by the police for doing this is that they frequently have innocent bystanders around when they discharge their weapons.
A normal bullet is quite likely to go straight through a person with enough momentum to kill a random person behind them but a hollow bullet spreads out on impact doing more damage to the target but greatly decreasing the chance of the bullet exiting the body and doing damage to someone else.
The 'liberal media' did an experiment with people and firearms here, even the chap with hundreds of hours of shooting experience at the range screwed it up completely.
Proper gun handling is a martial art, it takes hundreds of hours of practice in stressful situations to become vaguely skilled and then it takes regular practice to maintain that level of proficiency.
All of which requires ammunition. Lots and lots of ammunition...
When I practice I often go through a few hundred bullets per day and that's with a bolt action rifle or a pump. If I was firing semi-auto or full auto I could probably go through about 1000. Not that I own weapons that fire semi-auto or full auto.
I might be inclined to ask if hollows are the best bullets for practice but other than that.
I think they are standard issue in most law enforcement organisations around the world. I believe the argument given by the police for doing this is that they frequently have innocent bystanders around when they discharge their weapons.
A normal bullet is quite likely to go straight through a person with enough momentum to kill a random person behind them but a hollow bullet spreads out on impact doing more damage to the target but greatly decreasing the chance of the bullet exiting the body and doing damage to someone else.
The 'liberal media' did an experiment with people and firearms here, even the chap with hundreds of hours of shooting experience at the range screwed it up completely.
Proper gun handling is a martial art, it takes hundreds of hours of practice in stressful situations to become vaguely skilled and then it takes regular practice to maintain that level of proficiency.
All of which requires ammunition. Lots and lots of ammunition...
I wasn't questioning the use of hollow points in the field, its just that even though I frequently used them while hunting, I never practiced with them. It has something to do with hollows being significantly more expensive than my usual practice bullets purchased from the rifle association I belong to.
My knowledge of handguns is quite limited, I'm more of a rifle/shotgun man myself both concealed carry and open carry is outlawed here so I never saw the point in owning a hangun to carry it on me. When it comes to home protection I always figured that a barrel of buckshot and the tungsten slug that follows is adequate.
I wasn't questioning the use of hollow points in the field, its just that even though I frequently used them while hunting, I never practiced with them. It has something to do with hollows being significantly more expensive than my usual practice bullets purchased from the rifle association I belong to.
That is odd.
In terms of manufacturing complexity or materials required there shouldn't be any price difference, I dare say that when you buy 1/2 a billion rounds that the price per round is drastically lower than what a normal punter would pay for 50 rounds at a gun shop.
I wasn't questioning the use of hollow points in the field, its just that even though I frequently used them while hunting, I never practiced with them. It has something to do with hollows being significantly more expensive than my usual practice bullets purchased from the rifle association I belong to.
That is odd.
In terms of manufacturing complexity or materials required there shouldn't be any price difference, I dare say that when you buy 1/2 a billion rounds that the price per round is drastically lower than what a normal punter would pay for 50 rounds at a gun shop.
It's been a while since I read up on the law here, but if I remember correctly there is some arbitrary difference between "hunting ammunition (hollows)" and "range ammunition" meaning that I can't buy "hunting ammunition" through my Rifle association since that's not technically a "hunting association" and therefore they can only buy "range ammo" in bulk.
You can think of this place as the anti-US when it comes to gun laws, the US tend to go too far in one direction, we've gone too far off in the other direction. However, don't say that considering a mass murderer just shot 60 some odd people in July last year. Any mention of liberalizing gun laws here is immediately met with just about anything short of actual gunfire.
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 5192 Location: Seattle Area
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject:
I could kinda see locking in a bulk order since the price of copper and other raw materials used in ammunition manufacturing keep rising, but the number does seem excessive. Maybe they are practicing with the HP rounds, but for most people that's really wasteful as the additional complexity in design makes the bullets more expensive than range ammo, which is typically the simpler FMJ design and often also made to a lower standard as lives don't depend on it functioning perfectly every time.
I've gotta wonder though, I mean DHS agents are not the police, who have to insert themselves into volatile situations like domestic disturbances and such and I don't imagine they often have cause to draw, let alone fire their weapons. I like the idea of my law enforcement agencies being proficient with their firearms, which is all too often not the case, but that really is a lot of ammo. _________________ Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
I've gotta wonder though, I mean DHS agents are not the police, who have to insert themselves into volatile situations like domestic disturbances and such and I don't imagine they often have cause to draw, let alone fire their weapons. I like the idea of my law enforcement agencies being proficient with their firearms, which is all too often not the case, but that really is a lot of ammo.
The DHS covers a lot of other agencies though, take a look:
If they are bulk purchasing for the entire secret service AND all of the TSA AND all of border patrol guys AND the whole coast guard...
If you also look at some of the more detailed reporting instead of the paranoid reporting, they make the point of saying the order was for 'delivery at an indeterminate date' so it could it a contract to supply bullets for the next twenty years.
Or alternatively they could be planning a coup, police state and start rounding up all gun owners to put them into FEMA camps and murder them.
I believe they will use it for the police state more than anything. World is becoming more unraveled and this is their chance to force more laws and restrictions on you. _________________ *some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*
I don't know what they're planning. Protecting our freedom, I'm sure... Hopefully they don't give the Mexican drug cartels ammunition with the guns they sold them.
I don't know how many of you guys have dealt with DHS firsthand, but I don't think there is a more useless government agency.
I do remember the other year that the Department of Education bought a bunch of shotguns and whatnot too.
I've gotta wonder though, I mean DHS agents are not the police, who have to insert themselves into volatile situations like domestic disturbances and such and I don't imagine they often have cause to draw, let alone fire their weapons. I like the idea of my law enforcement agencies being proficient with their firearms, which is all too often not the case, but that really is a lot of ammo.
The DHS covers a lot of other agencies though, take a look:
If they are bulk purchasing for the entire secret service AND all of the TSA AND all of border patrol guys AND the whole coast guard...
If you also look at some of the more detailed reporting instead of the paranoid reporting, they make the point of saying the order was for 'delivery at an indeterminate date' so it could it a contract to supply bullets for the next twenty years.
Or alternatively they could be planning a coup, police state and start rounding up all gun owners to put them into FEMA camps and murder them.
I work next door to a DHS building.
It's a deportation mill. White vans and busses go in, white vans and busses head off to the airport.
I thought hollow points were illegal... If they aren't they should be... Esp. when it comes to using them domestically. Those are the bullets that explode on impact to make sure people die right? Evil things going on in government... Ability to kill US citizens was up for vote not too long ago and now this? Obama wants us all dead I think.
I thought hollow points were illegal... If they aren't they should be... Esp. when it comes to using them domestically. Those are the bullets that explode on impact to make sure people die right? Evil things going on in government... Ability to kill US citizens was up for vote not too long ago and now this? Obama wants us all dead I think.
Hollow points expand I believe. The used to be called dum-dums. They're FAR safer to use in a crowded area than most bullets precisely because of that expansion, they're less likely to go through the intended target and hit someone behind them.
Even then, why *wouldn't* you want someone to die when you shot them? What other intent could someone have for shooting someone other than to stop them? Death will stop anyone. _________________ A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
I thought hollow points were illegal... If they aren't they should be... Esp. when it comes to using them domestically. Those are the bullets that explode on impact to make sure people die right? Evil things going on in government... Ability to kill US citizens was up for vote not too long ago and now this? Obama wants us all dead I think.
Hollow points expand I believe. The used to be called dum-dums. They're FAR safer to use in a crowded area than most bullets precisely because of that expansion, they're less likely to go through the intended target and hit someone behind them.
Even then, why *wouldn't* you want someone to die when you shot them? What other intent could someone have for shooting someone other than to stop them? Death will stop anyone.
My friends who have military training are fond of pointing out to me that a gun is a fantastic tool for putting holes in things at a distance, but it's crap for just about anything else - particularly crap as a negotiating tool. If you're going to draw it, that should be because you are fully prepared to put a hole in something. Hopefully something some distance away.
I'm not a gun person but i agree with the assessment that these are likely to be used for range practice and nothing else. The cops in my home town use hollow points in their basement shooting range because they go *SPLAT* when they hit the angled wall at the back of the range, instead of ricocheting.
Yeah, guns aren't the best negotiating tool unless you have reason to believe pulling it will scare the assailant off.
At close range (I think it's twenty feet) knives are actually more lethal in decently skilled hands. _________________ A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
It's a deportation mill. White vans and busses go in, white vans and busses head off to the airport.
The DHS office I encountered was people sleeping at desks and watching college basketball on TV. Our tax money hard at work, keeping Amurikuh free for all.
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 Posts: 3647 Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:15 am Post subject:
abacacus wrote:
Yeah, guns aren't the best negotiating tool unless you have reason to believe pulling it will scare the assailant off.
At close range (I think it's twenty feet) knives are actually more lethal in decently skilled hands.
You're thinking of the distance someone with a knife can close before you can pull a gun out. What does that have to do with skill? It's just sheer adrenaline.
webcam wrote:
I thought hollow points were illegal... If they aren't they should be... Esp. when it comes to using them domestically. Those are the bullets that explode on impact to make sure people die right? Evil things going on in government... Ability to kill US citizens was up for vote not too long ago and now this? Obama wants us all dead I think.
This is how intelligent you sound. Stay in your lane.
Hopefully they don't give the Mexican drug cartels ammunition with the guns they sold them.
