Grebels
Toucan
Joined: Mar 06, 2012
Posts: 270
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Ha, ha, I didn't think seeing things in black and white, no inbetweens was an aspie thing. English aspies are different and see grey as well. No, sorry, English people are different. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| Unspecified wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | You can't "respect" something you think is wrong. You can feign respect, but that's deceit. |
I can respect your right to be wrong. |
Correct.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| JuggaspieZ2k wrote: | | CrazyCatLord wrote: | | JuggaspieZ2k wrote: | | Why can't people just accept other peoples beliefs? |
Because of this:
| Quote: | | "You're going to burn in hell for eternity!" |
...and other things in the same vein. Such as "god hates fags" and "rape pregnancy is a gift from god", which are views that some people are trying to legislate and impose on the entire public. That's why rational people are so horribly "intolerant" of religion.
| Quote: | | Christians and athiests do it just the same. |
Damn those intolerant, homophobic anti-choice atheists who picket funerals with their "thank god for dead soldiers" signs and go around telling people that they will go to hell for not accepting Jesus as their savior  |
Radicals do not define a belief. Not everything is black and white. |
Not everything is, but a few things are. So the mistake most often made is not believe there is black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, etc, but rather incorrect attribution of right and wrong to situations. Those funeral-picketing religious nuts are nothing short of abhorrent and dispicable, and this hatred would be appropriate if directed at Neo-Nazism. See, there is a proper place of hatred, and that is toward evil things. That evil things are not mistaken for good things and vice versa is, of course, absolutely crucial.
But yes, there is a time to hate and a time to love.
| Quote: |
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.
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Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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AngelRho
Synclavier owner/operator
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
Posts: 3753
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | Not everything is, but a few things are. So the mistake most often made is not believe there is black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, etc, but rather incorrect attribution of right and wrong to situations...That evil things are not mistaken for good things and vice versa is, of course, absolutely crucial. |
In terms of good/evil, I tend to think there is a dichotomy rather than grey areas. Either a thing is good or it is evil, and any number of factors may be involved in making the distinction. E.g. Killing--indeed, all death--is wrong or the result of evil in the world. Of that there is no question. The question within human interaction is with whom the fault lies. Was causing a person's death unnecessary? Then the blame lies with the person committing murder. Was a person's death the result of threatening or menacing behavior towards others? Then the dead has only himself to blame for forcing the innocent into a defensive position. But in neither case is death considered a "good thing." I like the term "an unfortunate necessity" for when causing harm to someone happens when someone is under duress and feels there is no alternative.
What happens is that more situations end up being extremely complex, with various proportions of interwoven positives and negatives influencing the outcome. Thus all grey areas are really just dangerous mixes of rights and wrongs in which no participant can rightly be said to be justified. For me, I'd rather just pick a side and live with the certainty of the outcome for better or for worse rather than throw darts blindfolded and hope for the best. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29705
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| Ragtime wrote: |
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 |
You quote Scripture almost as well as the Devil.
ruveyn |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Their is always going to be intolerence to religion and vice versa diversty makes life fun and interesting. |
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Mike1
Velociraptor
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| JuggaspieZ2k wrote: | | Why can't people just accept other peoples beliefs? I am sick and tired of "You're going to burn in hell for eternity!" and "Religious people are so stupid!" Christians and athiests do it just the same. I am also sick of people using TRAGEDIES like SCHOOL SHOOTINGS to say "This is why we need prayer in schools." School shootings happen for many different people! 9/11 happened because of religious intolerance! My own religious beliefs is to find your own path, much like paganism but I don't believe in what they believe. |
I think saying that "You're going to burn in hell for eternity!" is mostly used passively among religious people. They probably don't really contemplate the horror of what that would mean, and if they do and they completely lack sympathy for the person who they believe is going to hell then that would label them as a sociopath, and sociopaths have traits that are probably against their religion. It's like saying that you want to stab someone in the face. You might be exaggerating your feelings or it might seem like a pleasing idea in your mind, but if you actually did it you'd probably feel pretty bad about it. Indifference to people going to hell is a result of psychological defense mechanisms. People choose a dogma to believe in to protect themselves from the fear of death, and they repress details from within that dogma because they can't handle it. Everyone is driven by psychological defense mechanisms and selfish desires to some extent. People remain ignorant and apathetic until they are able to overcome these things. |
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, as long as they're not hurting anyone or trying to push their crap on anyone else people can believe in whatever fairytale nonsense they want IMO. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: |
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 |
You quote Scripture almost as well as the Devil.
ruveyn |
What else has he told you?
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Intolerance about religion |
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| AngelRho wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | Not everything is, but a few things are. So the mistake most often made is not believe there is black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, etc, but rather incorrect attribution of right and wrong to situations...That evil things are not mistaken for good things and vice versa is, of course, absolutely crucial. |
In terms of good/evil, I tend to think there is a dichotomy rather than grey areas. Either a thing is good or it is evil, and any number of factors may be involved in making the distinction. E.g. Killing--indeed, all death--is wrong or the result of evil in the world. Of that there is no question. The question within human interaction is with whom the fault lies. Was causing a person's death unnecessary? Then the blame lies with the person committing murder. Was a person's death the result of threatening or menacing behavior towards others? Then the dead has only himself to blame for forcing the innocent into a defensive position. But in neither case is death considered a "good thing." I like the term "an unfortunate necessity" for when causing harm to someone happens when someone is under duress and feels there is no alternative.
What happens is that more situations end up being extremely complex, with various proportions of interwoven positives and negatives influencing the outcome. Thus all grey areas are really just dangerous mixes of rights and wrongs in which no participant can rightly be said to be justified. For me, I'd rather just pick a side and live with the certainty of the outcome for better or for worse rather than throw darts blindfolded and hope for the best. |
I agree.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Asp-Z wrote: | | Hey, as long as they're not hurting anyone or trying to push their crap on anyone else people can believe in whatever fairytale nonsense they want IMO. |
That was tolerance until you got to the end.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 5086
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | Asp-Z wrote: | | Hey, as long as they're not hurting anyone or trying to push their crap on anyone else people can believe in whatever fairytale nonsense they want IMO. |
That was tolerance until you got to the end. |
"IMO" is not "tolerance?" |
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Lord_Gareth
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | Asp-Z wrote: | | Hey, as long as they're not hurting anyone or trying to push their crap on anyone else people can believe in whatever fairytale nonsense they want IMO. |
That was tolerance until you got to the end. |
Tolerance means you let people do something. It doesn't mean that you like it, agree with it, accept it as legitimate, or fail to act against it. I tolerate Christianity. I also think it's fairytale nonsense at best and a creeping, communicable mental disease at worst. As long as I continue to recognize my fellow human beings' rights to be Christian, however, I am tolerant. Saying it's about as sane as believing in flying unicorns that conjure miraculous toasters is just expressing my belief thereupon.
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Et in Arcadia ego. - "Even in Arcadia, there am I." |
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MarketAndChurch
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 26
Posts: 1826
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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forced prayer in school will most likely decelerate the religiosity of our youth. It will not solve why some kids with corrupted values (or values-free to begin with) take the lives of others.
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"Thou art weighed in the balances, and found wanting" - God |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:54 am Post subject: |
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As an atheist who is inextricably connected to religious culture (because family is important to me), I just have a problem with the concept that some religious people seem to have that people who are, in their eyes, sinning, need to be aware of the disapproval of the people who believe they are sinning, because this serves the greater good.
I'm an atheist and a relativist. My observation of the universe tells me that it is most likely that there is no supernatural at all, but i understand that not everybody comes to the same conclusion, and that some people lead better lives when they have a system of belief that is founded in what i perceive to be fiction. I understand that their belief is as strong or stronger than mine, and respect their right to believe things.
I just wish they'd respect my right to believe different things. |
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