zena4
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 31, 2009
Posts: 5970
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 Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| LiendaBalla wrote: | | Tim_Tex wrote: | Here is what it seems the case is:
1. You can only be tolerant if you're liberal, and not a Christian. |
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... Says the woman who is 33 this year.
And saying that myself, I don't know which emoticon(s) would fit the best now. |
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sage_gerard
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | hyperlexian wrote:
if you are not happy with the way you are labelled because of your ideas, change your ideas.
You think that someone who is unhappy at being unfairly labelled should change their ideas to fit those of the labeller? What?
if a person has bigoted ideas, then a person can expect those ideas to be labelled as such. if they are unhappy with that, then logically they can change their ideas. |
They can, but I hope you are not saying they should.
This claim also seems to assume that people who assign labels are capable of evaluating morals objectively. ...I wish that were the case. 
| Quote: | | good point from you and TM. maybe "acceptance" is a better word? or any other ideas? |
I'll go with "humility". Presumptions about human identity have a bad history. My policy is to remember I know nothing about new people I meet, even if I do detect patterns of behavior.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ancalagon wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | Ancalagon wrote: | | Then you'd be wrong. I don't want to get into too much detail, since I've sworn off debating this on the internet, but people who are opposed to abortion are opposed on the grounds that it's killing someone. They don't find killing someone in the name of controlling your own body acceptable. (And, yes, I know that those who support abortions would say there isn't anybody there yet.) |
it's my body, so if someone wants to oppose abortion they are deciding for me what i can do with it. the foetus would be growing in my uterus. |
It's not your body getting killed.
This sort of discussion always ends up getting nasty, so like I said, I don't really want to talk about it. |
it could be my body dying because i could not get a foetus aborted. and if you do not want to discuss it..... don't quote me and start arguing.
| Quote: | | No, it assumes that the crime rate is higher in Mexico than it is in Canada. |
so what? that doesn't mean that individual mexicans are criminals. assuming that they would be would be bigotry by definition.
| Quote: | | You're just repeating yourself. I was hoping for an actual explanation. |
maybe ask a different question.
| Quote: | | You're assuming that the ideas involved are bigoted ideas. |
they are, by definition.
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I do not accept or have tolerance for bigot behavior. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| sage_gerard wrote: | | Quote: | hyperlexian wrote:
if you are not happy with the way you are labelled because of your ideas, change your ideas.
You think that someone who is unhappy at being unfairly labelled should change their ideas to fit those of the labeller? What?
if a person has bigoted ideas, then a person can expect those ideas to be labelled as such. if they are unhappy with that, then logically they can change their ideas. |
They can, but I hope you are not saying they should.
This claim also seems to assume that people who assign labels are capable of evaluating morals objectively. ...I wish that were the case. |
no, i was giving him a solution if he didn't like the label. but why shouldn't a person change their presumably bigoted ideas?
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5194
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | if you are not happy with the way you are labelled because of your ideas, change your ideas. |
*pulls pin on hand grenade*
Rush Limbaugh and his dittoheads label people Feminazis because of their ideas, but if they don't like the label they should change their ideas. (?)
*takes cover*
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | if you are not happy with the way you are labelled because of your ideas, change your ideas. |
*pulls pin on hand grenade*
Rush Limbaugh and his dittoheads label people Feminazis because of their ideas, but if they don't like the label they should change their ideas. (?)
*takes cover* |
well, yes.
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Dox47
Consigliere
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Posts: 5194
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | well, yes. |
Yes what?
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | well, yes. |
Yes what? |
i am agreeing with you.
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Dox47
Consigliere
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Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | i am agreeing with you. |
That being upon being called a feminazi (or any other disparaging term), the proper response is to change your viewpoint to avoid the label rather than to argue that the label is inaccurate?
I wasn't putting that position forward, I was asking you for clarification for if that was what you really meant.
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Tim_Tex
Professor Hineybottom
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 33
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Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think those things constitute bigotry, just disapproval of certain actions. Bigotry, in my opinion, would indicate hatred for certain people.
Not saying the above-mentioned things are my beliefs, but I just don't think one's "tolerance" should ride on those things.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
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Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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it seems to me that there are 3 options:
-educate the public (not a viable option for the OP as he would in fact be misinforming the public if he tried to promote the idea that his ideas are NOT bigoted. he could try to do so, but it would be a misrepresentation)
-live with the label
-change one's views
"bigot" is not a disparaging term. it isn't a made-up insult - it is a descriptor. a similar term in the realm of feminism would be "feminist". feminazi is not a parallel word to "bigot", though perhaps it could be parallel to "redneck".
and if i am unhappy with any label, i can use the choices above. what are you saying that a person should do, Dox47?
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim_Tex wrote: | I don't think those things constitute bigotry, just disapproval of certain actions. Bigotry, in my opinion, would indicate hatred for certain people.
Not saying the above-mentioned things are my beliefs, but I just don't think one's "tolerance" should ride on those things. |
why shouldn't tolerance ride on those things?
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sage_gerard
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | no, i was giving him a solution if he didn't like the label. but why shouldn't a person change their presumably bigoted ideas? |
1. Not every unpopular idea is bigoted.
2. Consensus does not determine truth.
3. Other people's opinions are not always the best reasons to throw away integrity.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
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Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sage_gerard wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | no, i was giving him a solution if he didn't like the label. but why shouldn't a person change their presumably bigoted ideas? |
1. Not every unpopular idea is bigoted.
2. Consensus does not determine truth.
3. Other people's opinions are not always the best reasons to throw away integrity. |
there isn't necessarily a consensus on this. are you saying that his ideas are not bigoted?
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