Delphiki
Launchie
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1350
Location: My own version of reality
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 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| starkid wrote: | | What they are doing to these animals is revolting, and anyone who takes any "medication" they create from "treating" fake, bio-engineered autistic symptoms will be as much a guinea pig as these rodents are. |
Couldn't that be said for most meds? This mouse was feeling depressed.  |
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starkid
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Age: 32
Posts: 730
Location: California Bay Area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: |
Couldn't that be said for most meds? This mouse was feeling depressed. |
I suppose you are right, but when they make mice obese to test obesity medication for example, the mice are actually obese even though the obesity is totally engineered. They can't actually give mice autism. It seems to me that some conditions are more realistically engineered than others. Knowing at least one cause of obesity (overeating) makes it easy to re-create. That's not the case with autism.
That is just an academic argument, however; I wouldn't want anyone to think I support any animal testing, no matter how realistic.
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Assume nothing, question everything.
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AnonymousAspy
Emu Egg
Joined: Apr 29, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: utrecht, netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Animal testing is a vital part of science, for the time being, Its likely that if ya ever wore any non selfmade clothes, used makeup, had to take medicine for anything or even ate/drunk something not selfmade you took advantage of that.
Hell if there was no animal testing we would not know what was poisonous/dangerous for our health till possibly a large chunk of the population got exposed to something with possibly disastrous consequences. The ammounts of deaths both animal and human would be far higher besides the reason i mentioned above as noone would be willing to commit possible murder to make medicines as they would not be able to test it.
That said, the technology to abolish animal testing is slowly catching up but it is still nowhere near ready to completly to get rid of it |
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starkid
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Age: 32
Posts: 730
Location: California Bay Area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| AnonymousAspy wrote: | | Animal testing is a vital part of science, for the time being, Its likely that if ya ever wore any non selfmade clothes, used makeup, had to take medicine for anything or even ate/drunk something not selfmade you took advantage of that. |
I do not agree that it is vital; even if it was, it's still immoral. Having benefited from something, particularly before I even knew what was going on, doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that I want to benefit from it, or that I even consider it a benefit relative to the alternative.
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Hell if there was no animal testing we would not know what was poisonous/dangerous for our health
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Pretty much all engineered chemicals are dangerous for our health. The animal testing only gives us an idea how dangerous.
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till possibly a large chunk of the population got exposed to something with possibly disastrous consequences. |
We can fix that by putting an end to most of the pharmaceutical/chemical engineering industry. Also, a large part of the population is being exposed to things with disastrous consequences. The fact that they are lab rats, mice, monkeys, etc. instead of humans doesn't negate that.
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The ammounts of deaths both animal and human would be far higher besides the reason i mentioned above as noone would be willing to commit possible murder to make medicines as they would not be able to test it. |
Giving it to non-human animals is also possible murder, and giving it to humans is also testing.
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UnLoser
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 623
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't see any problem with curing the less desirable aspects of your personality and behavior. I have no pride in my difficulties communicating and socializing with people, and would cure them in a heartbeat. My OCD gives me hell, and I wouldn't hesitate to destroy it utterly(though OCD is different from AS). That being said, I think this "cure" would have limited success at best with curing Autism and AS, because it can't fix already existing developmental differences in the brain. |
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AnonymousAspy
Emu Egg
Joined: Apr 29, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: utrecht, netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| starkid wrote: | | AnonymousAspy wrote: | | Animal testing is a vital part of science, for the time being, Its likely that if ya ever wore any non selfmade clothes, used makeup, had to take medicine for anything or even ate/drunk something not selfmade you took advantage of that. |
I do not agree that it is vital; even if it was, it's still immoral. Having benefited from something, particularly before I even knew what was going on, doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that I want to benefit from it, or that I even consider it a benefit relative to the alternative.
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Hell if there was no animal testing we would not know what was poisonous/dangerous for our health
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Pretty much all engineered chemicals are dangerous for our health. The animal testing only gives us an idea how dangerous.
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till possibly a large chunk of the population got exposed to something with possibly disastrous consequences. |
We can fix that by putting an end to most of the pharmaceutical/chemical engineering industry. Also, a large part of the population is being exposed to things with disastrous consequences. The fact that they are lab rats, mice, monkeys, etc. instead of humans doesn't negate that.
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The ammounts of deaths both animal and human would be far higher besides the reason i mentioned above as noone would be willing to commit possible murder to make medicines as they would not be able to test it. |
Giving it to non-human animals is also possible murder, and giving it to humans is also testing. |
just to get it straight, you wanna stop all progress in almost all fields of science because you do not like vermin (and yes i consider mice/rats vermin) being killed over something which can and does benefit all of us (and that includes animals). As for the ammount of monkeys being used for testing is almost minimal these days and just for cases where testing can not be done in other in vito cases.
too add, i presume you are a vegan and prolife looking at your last point seeing as you considering killing of animals murder. |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30475
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm - if this thread is going to continue drifting into the moral arguments of animal testing instead of sticking to the topic title I might have to consider moving it to PPR.
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12775
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| UnLoser wrote: | | I don't see any problem with curing the less desirable aspects of your personality and behavior. I have no pride in my difficulties communicating and socializing with people, and would cure them in a heartbeat. My OCD gives me hell, and I wouldn't hesitate to destroy it utterly(though OCD is different from AS). That being said, I think this "cure" would have limited success at best with curing Autism and AS, because it can't fix already existing developmental differences in the brain. |
Actually, I was able to get a handle on many of my autistic behaviors by (slowly) learning to compensate for them throughout my lifetime. My little daughter is receiving special education, so hopefully she'll be able to overcome many of her quirks in less time than I did.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Kraichgauer"] | Joker wrote: | | shrox wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | I would not take the cure even if their was a cure. |
I agree. I've spent just too many years being me to change now.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
I know if I woke up one day and no longer had Autism I would feel empty inside. |
Probably me too.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
I view the cure for autism the way Magneto did for the mutant gene it would be like M Day losing my aspiesness would make me a hollow shell of my former self. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12775
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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The XMen movies can be seen as a metaphor for different groups of people who are are reviled like mutants, be they gays, racial minorities, or us Aspies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah the NT world do view us as such and the Doom Patrol can also be used as a metaphor for us aspies too. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12775
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I've heard the name Doom Patrol before, but I'm not familiar with them. Are they DC?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes and Stan Lee stole the idea for the X Men from the concept of the Doom Patrol. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
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Age: 47
Posts: 12775
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I now recall that bit of information. And as I had responded previously, Shakespeare blatantly stole ideas from other play writes, and produced works that have lasted the centuries.
Long live Stan Lee, the Shakespeare of the modern age! 
-Bill, otherwise know as Kraichgauer |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes Stan Lee did what Shakespear did but he always tweeked it a bit and instead of calling them freaks he used to term mutan he is a very clever man. |
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