hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bucephalus wrote: | | Tequila wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | i have rarely had any other type of kiss with a mate. |
You passionately kiss your platonic friends? Wow, you'd be popular.  |
i think she meant "mate" as in something other than platonic friend |
i need a Canadian-to-English translator.
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26039
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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'Mate' in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand commonly means platonic friend, pal, and so on.  |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | 'Mate' in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand commonly means platonic friend, pal, and so on. |
i didn't even think of that, thanks
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26039
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I knew what you meant, by the way. I was just being obtuse. |
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ZX_SpectrumDisorder
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
Posts: 1608
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| We also have Mates' condoms. Kerazy. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | We also have Mates' condoms. Kerazy. |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26039
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | We also have Mates' condoms. Kerazy. |
Used one? Is that for anal sex or just general use? See how much I know about these things? |
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ZX_SpectrumDisorder
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
Posts: 1608
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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It's for prison use, mate.
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| CrinklyCrustacean wrote: |
Relationships are reciprocal; it doesn't matter how much interest I show, if she doesn't show any then nothing will happen. Also I don't see how it can be a date if friends are around. |
I think we're agreed that it would be a bit of a stretcher to call the ceilidh thing a date. You showed interest in her by listening to her and by inviting her to the ceilidh. I'd probably have done something very similar myself.
| Quote: |
If I had not been badly crushing on her, yes I would have invited her in order to develop our friendship. |
I'd be the same. I'd be scared at the strength of my feelings for her, so much so that I'd be embarrassed at showing her I was interested at all. Oh, to be able to read her mind at such a time! But would I want her to read my mind? NO WAY!! 
I don't know if I really crush or not these days. When partnerless I can still get very intense feelings if I make friends with a woman, if I've been feeling lonely and desperate. But those feelings don't rule me like they used to. I guess I just learned to keep my head, and not to worry too much about one person. And I'm aware of the concept of narcissistic needs. A crush is a hallucination. My strong feelings aren't about her, they're about my loneliness. All I want to know is, does she want me or not, when all I need to know is, do I want her FOR WHO SHE IS or not. I can't know that until I've really looked at her.
| Quote: | | unless she mentions it, there is no way to tell whether she is already open to a relationship or not. Also, even if she is, there's still the question of whether she's interested in going out with YOU, which is not the same thing. |
She might not be open to it.....she might still be getting over a split and just not feel emotionally ready. She might be too busy for a relationship. She might not be impressed with the chemistry so far. She might be interested in another guy already, and wanting to wait and see how that goes. But what she can never tell you is that she's absolutely open or absolutely closed to the idea of a relationship with you.
Unless she's got a crush on you, in which case all I have to say is that I hope you don't take as long as I did to realise that a lady having a crush on me wasn't a Good Thing. Problem with crushes, I reckon, is that if I accept them, although I get a relationship (something I've really pined and longed for) without having to use any bravery, clear thinking or hard work, the other person has taken me on without testing me, without looking at my faults, and when she finally discovers them, they're going to be MUCH harder to work through, because she's involved up to her ears by then.
| Quote: | | Yeah, but you can't do anything unless you are certain the romantic interest is there. |
Yes you can, if you fight the crush feelings and don't let them paralyse you. Surely there is no disgrace in making it known that you like somebody? You can't be certain the romantic interest is there unless you do something to test it. Even if all you dare do is observe. Even that is giving her attention, which she'll notice at take as some kind of liking, if it's reasonably light-touch and friendly. I mean don't tell her that you love her - when I've had crushes I've felt that I did love them, but like I say, I was hallucinating. I wouldn't say anything direct about my sexual feelings either (in fact I wouldn't pass more than the tiniest hint of that at such an early stage, being much more interested in getting the emotional intimacy right first, which seems the only practicable way forward to me, but it depends on the culture I guess). But short of that, you can divulge any real, wholesome, justifiable positive feeling you have about them. We all need to be genuinely validated, so if you've got anything honest and good to say about her, I'd consider telling her some of those things.
I wouldn't make plain my romantic feelings at such an early stage.....I think we often have them right from the start (though not always), but I think it's quite strongly written in the cultures I've seen that people hide that, and they don't usually like it if the idea is raised at all, if it's too early. But I couldn't help implying it.
| Quote: | | I didn't lose her. Losing her implies I did something wrong to put her off me, I missed an opportunity to ask her out, or that someone managed to 'steal' her from me. I don't think that's the case. |
Sure, that's why I put the word in quotes, because it's not quite the right word.
| Quote: | | The reasons we didn't "couple off" were firstly because there wasn't really an opportunity (no slow dances or time to talk once the dancing started) secondly because she didn't show any interest, and thirdly because I wasn't so keen about a couple of her personality traits |
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That sounds pretty much like nature took its normal course. You were initially both interested, and put some energy into seeing each other again, but the ceilidh proved rather a distraction, and from the little you did get to find out about each other, neither of you felt particularly impressed. You collectively allowed the ceilidh to pull you apart....if you'd been collectively interested enough, you'd not have let that happen. But those traits you didn't like, were they dealbreakers for you, or might they have been negotiable?
I get your wish to have read her mind. One of the saddest things about the selection process is that we don't get to find out directly what put them off. She doesn't know you have issues with her personality, you don't know if she had any issues with yours.
It's probably good news that your crush didn't possess you for long. Crush is a good word for it......it's never exactly boring but it's never positive either, very much like being squashed by boulders, I imagine. I think it's characteristic of a crush that when it collapses, it feels for a while as if you hardly know what you saw in them, and they suddenly seem like a dead horse, but they aren't really that, there's no reason why you can't rebuild your admiration for them, and this time it's much more likely to be evidence-based and more sustainable.
| Quote: | | It wasn't a question of bad technique but rather a lack of opportunity, no interest on her part, and waning feelings on my part. As for asking her on a proper date 4 years down the line, as I said, even her close friends, including our mutual friend C, have trouble getting hold of her. |
She does sound like a long shot, yes, if it's very hard to contact her. But if she's so hard to get hold of, it means she's probably one busy lady, and the fact that she came to the ceilidh is perhaps more of a credit to you than you thought? It sounds to me as if you'd need to know more about her before writing her off, though if the practicalities of that are very difficult, you might be better off spending your time on somebody whose attention is easier to get. There might be on or two little things you could do, e.g. tell C that you wouldn't mind finding out a bit more about the lady..........now you're not besotted any more, like I say it's no problem that you wouldn't mind a date with her some time, no big thing but you might be interested and would like to find out more. You never know, C might be able to help you out, and meanwhile you can get on with your life and maybe one day C will tell you something to your advantage. So put a small bet on the outsider and move on.
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you start out with the assumption that she has some romantic interest in you by virtue of you being a boy and her being a girl and both of you being straight. You then build on that assumption during the course of your first conversation with the girl. For me, I start out with no assumptions, other than this person is nice until proven otherwise and would possibly make a good friend. |
Well, you're right about my assumption, though I have to fight some very strong feelings to hang onto it - feelings rather like yours......I've never really known that anybody fancied me before they'd proved it. I assume nothing about a new female friend, only that human biology gives the situation some potential.....I've made some bad mistakes from not seeing that potential, low self-esteem has often convinced me that she only sees me as a platonic friend, so I've not seen the danger, and relationships have started prematurely, before I'd really sussed out who we were, with each other........it always felt so immodest for me to tell myself, "I think she really fancies me." So I was free to become the best platonic friend I could be to them, which I don't think is possible after puberty. I hid behind their supposed sexual rejection of me, behind my own poor self-esteem. To this day an inner voice tells me that my mind and body are too ugly to attract anybody. The ones I've slept with somehow don't count there, they just inform me that I'm lousy at making relationships work anyway. The only saving grace is that I know it, so I can work on it.
| Quote: | | Actually, that's not true. If I fancy her, then I assume she's already taken.**** In any case, we start conversing and I proceed along the "let's be friends" line. If she fancies me, the onus is on her to indicate this fact. I won't be making any moves unless she gives me good reason to do so. |
I've heard of women starting relationships directly like that.....one had been hanging out with this guy, one of them then had to leave the city, and if it had been left to him, nothing would have been said. She took the lead and talked with him about her feelings for him. But it's never happened to me. I think it once nearly did, this girl came up and said "I want to talk to you about...." but when she saw I was with this guy we knew, she clammed up, and when I asked later what she'd wanted to say, she said it was nothing. Thinking back now, she gave me some mixed messages, which she'd never have done if she'd felt nothing.
But it's rare. From a highly gender-binary, sexist viewpoint, wait for a woman to pull you and you'll wait forever. The man makes the first move. If he can't do that, he's probably not strong enough to care for her children. Meekness is very often a big dealbreaker. Heck, some of them even play hard-to-get....actually sending false negative messages just to see how interested you are. I wish they'd stop it and act like men, but I can just about grasp how for confident guys that could be enormous fun. Luckily we all calm down as we age, and priorities change, but that primitive gender-role thing, although very awkward for many Aspie men, tends to be a fact of life.
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From my perspective if she isn't interested then I may as well ask out a brick wall. I'm not really sure what you're advocating. Are you saying I should ask out every girl I meet, or I should date every girl who asks me despite not being interested? |
But you don't know she's not interested without asking (directly or otherwise). I'm saying that you might do well to chase girls a little bit more than you do. Nothing radical, though I know how scary it can be to go out on a limb. You don't have to do it so avidly that they feel invaded and have to insult you to shake you off. Dates feel huge when you're not used to them, but they're only dates. There are lots of ways of making it relatively painless. You can ask "are you doing a lot this week?" and if they say yes, talk about what they're doing for a while, then if the talk has gone well, say "are you busy the week after?" They might say yes they are, and seem uncomfortable, so you back off, it's her call, but there's not much egg on your face, because hey, you just asked about her work and she answered you. She'll have a strong hint that you're interested, let her go and she might think it over and next time you see her she might seem warmer than before. But either way, nobody has risked much, though you will be sad if she's busy.
| Quote: | | That's a serious question, by the way, even though I think those scenarios are silly and would result in unnecessary pain on both sides. Obviously if there was mutual attraction and I recognised her signals that she'd like me to ask her out, then of course I would. I'm just not really sure what the merits are of assuming the possibility is there if she doesn't indicate it is so. |
Ah, reading the signals, yes. If you can decypher the messages, you're pretty much reading their minds, yes. If you can make a special interest out of studying the body language etc. of the mating game, and manage to relate what the books say to the behaviour of people you meet in real life, you won't have to guess every time. You still never know - some people fake it as a confidence trick - an Aspie girl might seem aloof but simply not know how to reel you in with body language. I'm usually like Sherlock Holmes when I suspect I may have "clicked." There are always clues about what they're really feeling.
| Quote: | | *** Yes, I know this is an unhealthy attitude, and there has to be a better approach. It also happens to be true in my experience that most girls, regardless of whether I want to date them or not, are taken, and I'm not prepared to break up any relationships. That's just immoral IMO. Also, this assumption makes it easier for me to talk with people I'm attracted to as I tend to turn into the classic shy teenager in their presence. |
If a girl already has a sexual partner, I agree one can do a lot of harm, and I wish everybody would respect couples. It can be reassuring to feel that a girl is spoken for, or gay......give up all hope of a relationship, and there's no need for all that stress, and you can enjoy a friendly chat with them. Just don't let it get too intense, which shouldn't be a problem with the occasional conversation. It was only a year or two ago I discovered the concept of emotional fidelity, which cleared up a lot of my confusion.....there are guidelines out there about the appropriate distance for opposite-sex friends in a monogamous long-term relationship. If you know what they are, you'll be able to see the lines before you stumble over them and get shot by a jealous husband. It's good stuff to know when you've got a relationship too, because it helps you decide how to deal with your opposite-sex friends without scaring the wife, and it gave me an unexpected bonus - every instance of emotional infidelity on their lists is a sign of the degree of couple intimacy, so when I'm partnerless, I can use the lists to see how close we're getting, if I can't see. They are only guidelines, there are many cultural variants and aberrations with real people, but they're much better than darkness IMHO. |
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Zinia
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 23, 2011
Age: 30
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | bucephalus wrote: | | Tequila wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | i have rarely had any other type of kiss with a mate. |
You passionately kiss your platonic friends? Wow, you'd be popular. |
i think she meant "mate" as in something other than platonic friend |
i need a Canadian-to-English translator. |
Hahaha I saw a couple of birds "mating" outside my window yesterday. "Birds" as in avians, just in case there's another nationality/slang difference there...which I suspect there is. It definitely wasn't platonic!
As for the OP, I dislike that kind of expectation of a kiss. I have some very uncomfortable memories of people trying to kiss me after a date. Usually, a hug is fine, as long as it's not a pervy kind of hug. I think it's important to remember that everyone has different comfort levels. I agree with the above post, not to let "crush feelings paralyze you" too. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Went on a date last weekend but didn't kiss her goodnight I never kiss on the first date. |
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Zinia
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 23, 2011
Age: 30
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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* when I said "pervy hug", I meant when someone intentionally presses their pelvis on you when hugging. It's fine if it's consensual, but a date shouldn't be considered consent to any physical contact.
Don't beat yourself up for not knowing the "rules." I don't think there are any besides being respectful.
A kiss can be OK when it's consensual, but sometimes trying to understand the consent is awkward. I had a guy ask me if he could kiss me once. I thought about it and said "no." Which was also awkward.
I ended up dating him later, and we stayed together for four years.
But I think it's a given that some dates are awkward. |
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SoftKitty
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 572
Location: Prague, Czech republic
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| minervx wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | if i am not seriously making out with the guy (or girl) during the date (or at the end by the latest), then it was not a successful date in my mind as the chemistry must have been lacking. i do not know if other people feel this way or not. |
expecting a passionate makeout during the FIRST date, is possible, but I don't think many people are on that boat with you. |
Hi there, I am just dropping by. As for me, I donīt honestly know what to expect at the end of the first date. Shall I make the move and kiss the guy first? Will he make the move? Am I too attractive for him in order for him making the first move? Does my breath smell nice? Will his breath smell (nice)? Will he ask me for my number? Will he mail me again? Didnīt I scare him away when I showed him my cosplay photos? Even the ones in the Michelle Pfeifferīs Catwoman costume?  Didnīt he find me too talkative? Or strange and boring? Or too fat? Will he be pissed off that I cannot kiss? (I definitelly WILL BE).
There are so many questions burning through my brain in that very moment, that I always get stupidly nervous and awkward. Men always sense it, and so 99 percent of them never kissed me, and if they did, then not on my mouth but my cheek (! - like if I was their sister). Only one kissed me on the first date, and it was beautiful and also a shock (quite pleasant one, to be honest), because Iīve been kissed by a guy only few times before in this manner. I get kissed by men all the time because they take me for a friend, but not as a potential lover. So I am even grateful. That pathetic I am. At least I donīt feel that bad.
But still, I donīt know what to expect in general. I feel very uncomfortable letting men kissing me because I have never had sex in my life. Thank God I am technically not a virgin (a minor surgery; the gyno must have gotten in somehow), and judging by standards and other peopleīs remarks, I am supposed to be quite pretty (but in my country itīs a standard, so I am average here). BUT I donīt know anything about dating. So I get pretty much confused at the beginning and the end of each date (supposedly when Iīm seeing the same guy). To be honest, I feel like I am a child, or a Martian, or an idiot, that I donīt know anything about these unwritten dating rules. Everybody else probably knows about them, and I donīt. I am alway like: "What shall I do?" Itīs very frustrating. I donīt know when to kiss, where Iīm allowed to kiss (said in politically correct terms) and nothing abou the technique. And I am afraid that men will want sex with me after the third or sixth date, because everybody says that by then, I MUST have sex with the other person, otherwise he will lose all interest and think I am a stupid goose. And is it really necessary to give somebody a blowjob? Is it really that vital for a healthy (or even unhealthy) relationship? I always hear from my girl friends that no man will ever want to date me if I donīt force myself into it. But I donīt wanna do it. Under any circumstance! Am I that hopeless? Is there any chance for me?
Dating people puts me under a huge, huge stress.
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