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hyksos55
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17 May 2012, 5:38 pm

There are some excellent points being made here. With that being said though this bit about Pershing using pig’s blood against the Moro in the Philippians has never been documented nor does it align with his record while there. So most likely it’s not true, he was actually pretty humane in comparison to some of the other commanders that were there at the time. I also believe history bears out that when people become fanatic about a cause the normal taboos no longer apply.

The Sudan is originally an African influence country its people were called Nubians in ancient times and was prodomintly Christian until the Muslim conquest, hence enter the Arabs. The colony powers did not do anyone any favors by carving Africa up the way they did and the African’s have no real concept of freedom as a whole as we know it in the western world, they are familiar with only power.

If one must go to war though it must be total war, it actually tends to lead to shorter and less bloody outcomes. Half measures won’t do.

"The essence of war is violence; moderation in war is imbecility."
Jacky Fisher


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19 May 2012, 4:00 am

It took till 1956 to get the British out of Sudan, so freedom is a recent thing.

During the British invasion, How we broke the Fuzzy wussys at Karatoum, comes the famous quote, "We have the Maxim gun, they do not."

Men with spears and big hair were the main defense of their homeland, and the British machine gunned whole armies.

The term Genocide had not yet been invented.

Like the Americans, the people who lived there were called Hostiles, and men women and children were extirminated.

In cities older than the British Empire, or King Auther, the population was slaughtered. It was called, "Progress."

In a process much like killing the owners of America, replacing them with colonial occupation, they were replaced with other tribes from the south, Chad, Uganda, much like Mexicans are taking back America.

The British wanted the Nile, so they did not use the same tactics along the Arab/Islamic Red Sea, for those people had canons, firearms the equal of the British, and thick walled mud houses.

Wars and History are won by the survivors.

The old Christian people, like the Ethiopians, who were the Christian world before Rome, were the ones the British machine gunned.

Farther south was never Christian, until the colonial era, when they were told that The Queen was the Mother of Jesus, the Red Coats the Army of God, and those that did not obey would be shot. Church of England was the only religion allowed, all others were shot.

Islam and Ethiopian Christians survived. Along the coast, in the mountains, as the British marched through and took Uganda, Kenya, Lake Victoria, the entire Nile watershed.

From Biblical times the Queen of Sheba, The Land of Punt, were the richest, wisest, who controlled the trade of India, the East Coast of Africa, and sold Spices, Incence, Gold, Ivory.

The area has a past, a history, economy, and those I have met were very intelligent.

Islam did produce a great book, over 200 years before the first book in English, Bede. Christian manuscripts in Ethiopia, are five hundred years older, and the literate tradition could well go back another thousand or more years.

We know Indian numbers through the Arabs, but from a time before they reached India by land. Punt was a sea going trade power, reached India, and brought back the teachings of their religions, their technology, and all fields of knowledge, before Islam.

They knew the old cities in current Pakistan, including one in the delta now covered by the sea. Cities of fired brick, with a written language, not yet translated, that had large populations, industry, before Ur raised it's first mound, or Menes made Egypt a country.

While the Bible does lie about Sheba and Punt paying tribute to some goat herders way back in the mountains, they did not lie about wealth, knowledge, power, of the area around the mouth of the Red Sea.

If you look at the People of Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, they were not replaced by Arabs. They are very dark skinned, they are the original people of Punt.

While they are Africans, dark skinned, they are nothing like the people found farther south in Africa. They are intelligent, have a long literate tradition, and have withstood history, invasions, and taken the best from the world.

Now they have the Maxim Gun.



Joker
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19 May 2012, 4:15 am

Genocide has also been around since the ancient times.



naturalplastic
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19 May 2012, 6:58 am

The brits carved up africa for the own needs.

They lumped the black pagan and recently converted christian tribes of the south into the same political unit as the islamic arabs of the north- and named it the "the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan"( originally Egypt oppressed the Sudan- and then when the Suez canal was built Britain became the oppressor of Egypt itsself- the owners of the Sudan's owners-hense the name).

When the Brits granted this house of cards independence in the Fifities not surprisingly civil war between north and south erupted and became endemic for decades.

Finally this artificial construct fell apart and the two halves are now free to go their seperate ways as seperate nations.

But theyre still fighting- it was a civil war, and now its a war between countries. But its the same two contenders.

It wouldve been nice if the partician wouldve stopped the fighting but it hasnt.

But what does all this have to do with the USA using pig's blood?

In this particular round it is the southern non muslims who are the agressors not the pig phobic northerners.

Its an old conflict with deep roots with no clear cut villians. So why pick on the side that happens to be pig phobic?

Thats the first of the many problems in this pig strategy.

Apparently someone hasnt heard of something called 'Abu Graib".
Americans did the very things to Iraqi terror suspects that you're proposing we do to these unspecified islamic enemies we supposidly have in the Sudan.

The result of abu graib was CREATING more terrorists, not demoralizing terrorists.

Abu Graib pics are still used as a recruiting tool by AL Queda.

So even if the USA intervened and decided to pick on the Muslim side and if it choose to use this pig's blood strategy- at best it would make the USA a laughingstock- and at worse it would backfire and galvanize the muslims of the north against us.

So this pigs blood thing cant possibly further US interests in the region.

Why exactly does the fact that Northern Sudan is angry at their neighbor for trying to sieze an oil well on their common border make the Northern Sudan suddenly a threat to the USA? Theyre mad at their neighbors. Not at us.

How are they "a breeding ground for terrorists"?

They are not a failed state. The two sudans function all too well when waging war against each other.


Theyre muslim, but theyve always been muslim. So why is that suddenly a problem?

And one fourth of the world is muslim, so why single out the Sudan?

Okay.. we should go into a country that is no threat to us and is not our enemy and who's population has no bad feelings about the USA, and we should smear the whole place with pigs blood so..they all get galvanized against the USA and all join al queda.

How does this plan "make perfect sense", and exactly what problem would it solve?



ruveyn
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19 May 2012, 9:36 am

Joker wrote:
Genocide has also been around since the ancient times.


The purging of the hive and the thinning of the herd.

ruveyn