WilliamWDelaney
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 Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: |
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In the real world, most people are just lost and confused, often misguided, but most of us are trying. Most of us are satisfied to get through our lives without actually losing our minds and killing somebody. A few of us--and I wish I could say it was me--are out there busting their butts every day to try to make the world worth living in, which is a tall order. However, in a life where it's hard enough to keep your grip on reality, most of us are lucky enough just to remain sane.
So, want to know what I think of cynics and misanthropes? Hey, if it gets you through the day, go for it. Really, I've never had any trouble from them. I consider the outlook to be bankrupt, and I consider it to be emotionally selfish. However, I can't say that I can identify this cynical outlook with any real source of unhappiness in my life or that of anyone else.
Really, I tried. I tried looking for excuses to go into a self-righteous rant over it. I tried looking for reasons that cynical, misanthropic people are harmful or nasty. But it's really not the worst thing a person can be.
The worst outlook I think people can have is to go through life believing that the world owes them something, somehow. That, I think, is a truly destructive outlook. No, you don't inherently deserve to have a Hummer. You don't have time to do anything substantial with that gigantic back yard. And no, you don't deserve to have streets that are clear of bums and lowlifes: it was your congressman's brilliant idea to shut down public housing to get you that giant tax cut.
But, as far as cynicism is concerned, I can't think of any wrong a cynic or misanthrope has done to me, assuming that's the only identifiable fault in that person's character. |
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edgewaters
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Age: 40
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Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Do you ever get sick of cynics/misanthropes? |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | I actually think it's the perception that strangers are selfish that makes other people act more selfish. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
YAY!!! Somebody besides me sees this. Finally.
I'm not certain that it's the perception that is the cause, or the symptom. I haven't figured out yet whether it's a rationalization for certain behaviours ("Hmm. I want to be a jerk. Everybody else is a jerk. So I can be a jerk.") or whether it's actually the cause of those behaviours.
Last edited by edgewaters on Thu May 03, 2012 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CrazyCatLord
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Do you ever get sick of cynics/misanthropes? |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | I'm not saying I've never felt cynical/misanthropic before, but isn't the attitude itself kind of just becoming a part of the problem? I don't feel most people are inherently self-serving, I actually think it's the perception that strangers are selfish that makes other people act more selfish. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think people who are naturally selfish are a minority and mostly suffer from various psychological ailments and disorders. |
Cynicism is not the same as misanthropy. I'm a cynic -- naturally, seeing that I've spent 40 years on this planet -- but I'm not a misanthrope. I believe that realists inevitably become cynics at some point, but one can be both a cynic / realist and a humanist. I like humanity. Not up close and personal, but by and large and from afar. I just don't expect much from most of my fellow people, which is only realistic. Any other, rose-tinted outlook will result in great disappointment. |
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CrazyCatLord
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Declension wrote: | | I strongly dislike a certain type of cynic, which I might call the "George Carlin" type since they all seem to worship George Carlin. These people are just intellectually lazy. They have an unshakeable conviction that they can see through the lies and that everyone else is an ignorant sheep. But when you actually talk to them about the important questions, you discover that they are extremely misinformed about most topics. |
And I strongly dislike people who make idiotic generalizations like this because Carlin said something painfully astute about their pet deity or political party at some point. I happen to be a huge fan of George Carlin. The pre-"Life Is Worth Losing" George Carlin, that is. He did become a bit bitter and angry in his old age, but who can blame him after living so many years in the USA and watching things turn from ridiculous to batsh*t crazy? You can call Carlin many things, but intellectually lazy is certainly not one of them. And I think you will find that many of his fans are pretty well informed about most topics, unless you equate "well informed" with the political beliefs of the Tea Party. |
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donnie_darko
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Do you ever get sick of cynics/misanthropes? |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | | . I believe that realists inevitably become cynics at some point, but one can be both a cynic / realist and a humanist. I like humanity. Not up close and personal, but by and large and from afar. I just don't expect much from most of my fellow people, which is only realistic. Any other, rose-tinted outlook will result in great disappointment. |
Ha, that's pretty depressing.  |
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donnie_darko
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| I guess the reason cynics and misanthropes annoy me is because I think their pessimism is limiting to our species. Like the more cynics there are, the less chance there is at disarmament, or conquering disease, or a variety of problems we could solve if we were a bit more idealistic. |
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CrazyCatLord
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | I guess the reason cynics and misanthropes annoy me is because I think their pessimism is limiting to our species. Like the more cynics there are, the less chance there is at disarmament, or conquering disease, or a variety of problems we could solve if we were a bit more idealistic. |
In order to change anything for the better, we must first acknowledge the status quo in all its ugliness. People who are called cynics by others are usually very good at this. We have no patriotic illusions of grandeur and no misguided national pride.
That's why conservatives often view liberals as unpatriotic cynics, because liberals are not afraid to realize and admit "hey, you know what? We suck. Our corrupt government sucks. The uneducated masses suck, because our education system sucks. The rest of the world either hates us or laughs at us. I mean, look at all this sh*t, we need to clean up our act ASAP".
Conservatives would rather believe that they live in the greatest country of the world, and the only problem are all those naysayers who keep prodding at the duct tape that barely holds the crumbling structure together. I think that the critics and perceived "haters" are a lot more likely to fight for an utopia, exactly because we're so disillusioned about and unsatisfied with the current state of things.
Last edited by CrazyCatLord on Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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WilliamWDelaney
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, I see cynics as immature realists. A cynic is essentially a defeated idealist. A realist has come to grips with the fact that the ideals were bankrupt to begin with. |
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CrazyCatLord
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | A realist has come to grips with the fact that the ideals were bankrupt to begin with. |
And that's exactly what most people call cynical. Point out that something is not quite as rosy and perfect as the majority would like to believe, and you will be labeled a cynic. |
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SpiritBlooms
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | | Cynicism is not the same as misanthropy. I'm a cynic -- naturally, seeing that I've spent 40 years on this planet -- but I'm not a misanthrope. I believe that realists inevitably become cynics at some point, but one can be both a cynic / realist and a humanist. I like humanity. Not up close and personal, but by and large and from afar. I just don't expect much from most of my fellow people, which is only realistic. Any other, rose-tinted outlook will result in great disappointment. |
True, cynic and misanthrope aren't the same thing, and I also think a cynic can be a humanist. But I'm starting to think so can a misanthrope. Someone I thought was one is taking an activist stand that I think is very brave. I'm more of a coward when it comes to activism. So, so much for not being either. 
| Declension wrote: | I strongly dislike a certain type of cynic, which I might call the "George Carlin" type since they all seem to worship George Carlin. These people are just intellectually lazy. They have an unshakeable conviction that they can see through the lies and that everyone else is an ignorant sheep. But when you actually talk to them about the important questions, you discover that they are extremely misinformed about most topics.
Here's how I personally feel about the state of humanity: there are good aspects and there are bad aspects. A brave person accepts the bad aspects, but makes it their life's mission to nurture the good aspects, so that the good aspects will shine through when the moment requires it. A coward looks at the bad aspects and just gives up, never acknowledging the good aspects, because to acknowledge the good aspects would be to admit that they could be spending their time making the world a better place instead of spending their time feeling clever. |
I agree with your second paragraph. But I like George Carlin, and though he may have been a cynic (maybe it was an act, I don't know) he also made a lot of good points - about things that could be fixed, and maybe that was his point, to point out that it doesn't have to be this way. To me, the hope that a flawed human system can be fixed isn't all that cynical.
But since I find it hard most of the time and especially today to put logical thoughts together, I think I'll let it drop. |
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edgewaters
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Well ... to confuse matters, I'm a misanthropic, optimistic humanist. I think the species as a whole is vile, but the individuals are really great and things can be improved for everyone by their efforts. But humanity itself is still scum, and always will be. |
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Subotai
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | I guess the reason cynics and misanthropes annoy me is because I think their pessimism is limiting to our species. Like the more cynics there are, the less chance there is at disarmament, or conquering disease, or a variety of problems we could solve if we were a bit more idealistic. |
As long as we don't allow our idealism to contradict human nature, that can only lead to disaster. We must expect people to act like they have since the dawn of time.
Disarmament is impossible, there will always be groups of people willing to seize power. It's a fact of life that ruthlessness and ambition are the qualities which bring people to positions of power, and people in power are the ones controlling the resources and making the rules, the benefactors of humanity must accept this and learn to play these people towards their causes.
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SpiritBlooms
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| You know, I can think of at least one instance of idealism causing trouble. The paperless credit default swap was voted for in Congress by politicians who never dreamed it would wind up paralyzing our credit system and causing a global economic collapse. Maybe they should have seen that, and if they'd been more cynical and even misanthropic they wouldn't have let that happen. But then maybe I'm an idealist for thinking they had good intentions. |
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donnie_darko
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Subotai"] | donnie_darko wrote: |
As long as we don't allow our idealism to contradict human nature, that can only lead to disaster. We must expect people to act like they have since the dawn of time.
Disarmament is impossible, there will always be groups of people willing to seize power. It's a fact of life that ruthlessness and ambition are the qualities which bring people to positions of power, and people in power are the ones controlling the resources and making the rules, the benefactors of humanity must accept this and learn to play these people towards their causes. |
How can you explain the dramatic decline in violence over the past few centuries, then? Yes i know we had WW2 and all that, but the fact is, a human being in 2012 is far less likely to die in a violent act compared to human beings of any time since at least the Neolithic. |
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donnie_darko
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| SpiritBlooms wrote: | | You know, I can think of at least one instance of idealism causing trouble. The paperless credit default swap was voted for in Congress by politicians who never dreamed it would wind up paralyzing our credit system and causing a global economic collapse. Maybe they should have seen that, and if they'd been more cynical and even misanthropic they wouldn't have let that happen. But then maybe I'm an idealist for thinking they had good intentions. |
Not an idealist for thinking they had good intentions, a typical skeptic. |
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