Subotai
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Joined: Sep 25, 2010
Posts: 1036
Location: 日本
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 Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sage_gerard wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | and from what I've seen people typically get more messed up on alcohol than cannabis. What attitude is it you can't identify with? |
I don't identify with an outspoken desire to unnecessarily ingest behavior-altering substances for the sole purpose of enjoyment. I'm not saying its wrong, but I am saying that there are so many other things to enjoy that cost nothing. I support legalizing pot for the people who really need it, since my bias is not against those seeking treatments.
I just don't understand those who make political arguments when all they want is a "fix". I feel the same way for stoners, drunks, crackheads and others dependent on some substance.
| Sweetleaf wrote: | | I don't see what is so terrible about using marijuana recreationally, people drink recreationally.... |
That's like saying "I don't see why its bad to eat ice cream. People eat cake". Both are arguably innocent activities, but I would not bet my health on it. |
People use pot for a myriad of reasons. To relax in the evening, as a philosophical aide, for pure recreation... But it doesn't matter the individual reason, all that matters is it is a positive aspect of many people's lives and the fact that it is illegal is a glaring hypocrisy of our time.
The fact we risk criminal charges which can impede one's success for such a harmless activity makes the legalization of pot a very relevant political argument.
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CrazyCatLord
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Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | sage_gerard wrote: | Edited previous post to account for overgeneralized suggestion.
Cited from previously linked source for the sake of discussion
| Quote: | | Some elements of marijuana, when isolated, can be helpful to patients under medical supervision. THC, which is the active ingredient in marijuana, can and has been created synthetically, allowing its medicinal properties (without the "high") to be used as medicine. DEA and the FDA approved Marinol™, a safe, pill-form of synthetic THC which has been available to patients since 1995. |
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Yeah apparently that pill is not as effective as actual marijuana...and considering THC is the most psychoactive chemical in marijuana I don't see how they figure it won't cause the high, unless they did something weird to the THC which seems unessisary to me considering marijuana in its plant form works just fine. |
From what I've read, Marinol is a joke. The pharmaceutical industry has taken a harmless plant, synthesized its active ingredient, and produced a hard drug that is far more psychoactive than cannabis products and has severe side effects.
| Quote: | "It's way too psychoactive," says Robert Randall, the glaucoma patient who was the first American to obtain marijuana legally from the government. "When I took Marinol, I found it anxiety-provoking and intense, like I had wandered into a short story by Flannery O'Connor." - "I wound up lying on the sofa for days, just totally drugged and unproductive."
In 1992, Randall traveled around the country. "I talked to hundreds of AIDS patients," he says, "and only one preferred Marinol to marijuana." It's not just that marijuana helps them gain weight - it's that Marinol is so scary. "A lot of guys start crying spontaneously when they're on THC," says Randall. "Then there's the girl who took Marinol, looked at her mother and saw the angel of death." Randall snorts. "How unpleasant would that be if you were sitting in a hospital, dying?"
It's not unusual for AIDS patients who start smoking marijuana to gain 20 or 30 pounds. And many of them told Randall that Marinol didn't even make them hungry. Randall's informal poll is backed up by Dr. Robert Gorter of San Francisco, who has studied AIDS patients extensively. Writing in the journal of the Physicians Association for AIDS Care in 1992, Gorter stated, "Again and again patients have testified that they preferred marijuana above dronabinol [the scientific name for Marinol] for its appetite-stimulating effect."
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Silverberg, one of the first doctors to use chemotherapy on lymphoma patients, had been an early champion of medical marijuana. Nevertheless, he entered the NCI program, and began prescribing THC to his cancer patients. After a year, Randall says, "One of Ivan's patients walked into his office and threw the bottle at him, accusing him of trying to poison her." He subsequently dropped out of the program.
During the early '80s, studies were conducted in six states, offering smokeable marijuana to cancer patients who had not responded to traditional antivomiting medication. And while thousands of patients found marijuana consistently safer and more effective than synthetic THC, the government rejected the studies. They had already found a foster home for Marinol.
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Finally, it's worth reviewing the side effects of marijuana and Marinol. While there are numerous side effects from smoking marijuana (euphoria, laughter, anxiety, dry mouth, red eyes, sleepiness, clumsiness, the munchies), countless patients who have used marijuana in a medical setting have testified that they experienced no adverse side effects.
People who take Marinol, on the other hand, frequently complain about the "disturbing psychiatric symptoms" that are common side effects of the drug. According to a 1985 edition of The Medical Letter, the side effects of Marinol are "disorientation, depression, paranoia, hallucinations and manic psychosis." |
Source: http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/HT_Marinol_0794.html
All this because the U.S. government can't admit that cannabis prohibition was a failure. It has long been known that, while the amount of THC in marijuana and hashish is harmless, the highly concentrated hash oil is a serious psychedelic drug. Everything is dangerous in large enough quantities. If the anandamide in chocolate, another cannabinoid, was synthesized and sold in a very potent form, it would also cause hallucinations and psychosis. But of course that doesn't mean that chocolate isn't safe to eat. We don't need a synthetic alternative to cacao, and we don't need one for cannabis. There is no need to improve nature. |
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Vigilans
Orgasm Donor
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Age: 24
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Location: La belle province
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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^^ I have had Marinol before, I did not find the experience very pleasant at all. I became extremely lethargic and nauseated. I ended up calling it a night and sleeping it off as did most of the other guys who tried it. It felt more like Oxycontin or Dilaudid than it did THC.
I have read that CBD, another active ingredient in marijuana, has anti-psychotic properties. In "natural" marijuana, it exists in a close ratio with THC, though some strains have increased the THC/CBD ratio extensively. In any case, Marinol, being a "pure" product, likely lacks CBD, which may be the part of marijuana that allows the safe and enjoyable consumption of THC
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Vigilans wrote: | ^^ I have had Marinol before, I did not find the experience very pleasant at all. I became extremely lethargic and nauseated. I ended up calling it a night and sleeping it off as did most of the other guys who tried it. It felt more like Oxycontin or Dilaudid than it did THC.
I have read that CBD, another active ingredient in marijuana, has anti-psychotic properties. In "natural" marijuana, it exists in a close ratio with THC, though some strains have increased the THC/CBD ratio extensively. In any case, Marinol, being a "pure" product, likely lacks CBD, which may be the part of marijuana that allows the safe and enjoyable consumption of THC |
There are a few chemicals in weed along with THC that lead to the enjoyable high. Pure THC is... not so enjoyable.
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JWH 018 is kind of fun but, who knows, I get the impression that the more things like that start coming out and the more skeptical the USFDA becomes of these analogs, the more they might just be ready to legalize. |
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shrox
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Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sage_gerard wrote: | | shrox wrote: | | Marijuana does have medicinal value, it treats my tremor from Parkinson's (make's it go away) and it treats my Dystonia (relaxes the muscles that won't release). Nothing else does that without heavy side effects. |
Is it the THC? Can it be administered without smoking? |
I have tried Marinol. It was $3500 a month, but covered by TriCare insurance. It just wasn't as effective, and it takes hours to work. There are other cannabinoids in marihuana that interact with receptors through out the body, not just the brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid
Specifically:
"Cannabidiol
Main article: Cannabidiol
Cannabidiol (CBD) is not particularly psychoactive in and of itself, and was thought not to affect the psychoactivity of THC.[12] However, recent evidence shows that smokers of cannabis with a higher CBD/THC ratio were less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms.[13] This is supported by psychological tests, in which participants experience less intense psychotic-like effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD (as measured with a PANSS test).[14] Cannabidiol has little affinity for CB1 and CB2 receptors but acts as an indirect antagonist of cannabinoid agonists.[15] Recently it was found to be an antagonist at the putative new cannabinoid receptor, GPR55, a GPCR expressed in the caudate nucleus and putamen.[16] Cannabidiol has also been shown to act as a 5-HT1A receptor agonist,[17] an action that is involved in its antidepressant,[18][19] anxiolytic,[19][20] and neuroprotective[21][22] effects.
It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea.[23] CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor.[23]
CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC Cannabis strains. CBD apparently plays a role in preventing the short-term memory loss associated with THC in mammals."
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sage_gerard
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | | Are you arguing that we should outlaw everything that is considered harmful? |
For the third time, I am not invested in forcing people to do anything.
My point is "just because you can doesn't mean you should". I would advise people not to practice unhealthy habits when they value health. I make that point strongly because I feel that people often times think they are unconditionally entitled to doing something they like. I came into this thread guns blazing because I have a stigma against drunks, smokers, stoners or even glue-sniffers. It is not that I mind their actions; I just don't identify with the motivations behind their habits. They don't even have to be addicted... It's just that mindset of being willing to take unnecessary, easily avoidable risks in the name of hedonism.
I value health, so I avoid fast food, drugs and the like. Anything that could be considered "unhealthy" for a person is something I tend to exercise caution around.
Now, I prodded your last post because it sounded like you were trying to say that liberty means having the right to harm yourself in some way because other people do it in other ways. I now know that is not your position now that you said the below:
| Quote: | | We should instead focus on social policies and create an environment where people have less reason to seek artificial, drug-induced happiness. |
Ok, now we're on the same page. How would you propose this environment be created?
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Delphiki
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: |
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But there are no long term issues with marijuana, so how is it unhealthy?
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana, so how is it unhealthy? |
Inhaling smoke in to your lungs will always do bad things for your breathing.
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sage_gerard
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 22
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana |
Whatever you say.
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Subotai
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 25, 2010
Posts: 1036
Location: 日本
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana, so how is it unhealthy? |
Inhaling smoke in to your lungs will always do bad things for your breathing. |
True. Vaporizers are a little better, but ganja butter and green dragon are healtiest alternatives.
Still, there is a certain charm to smoking a joint.
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Delphiki
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana, so how is it unhealthy? |
Inhaling smoke in to your lungs will always do bad things for your breathing. |
True, but don't people who smoke marijuana smoke a lot less than cigerattes (usually). And sorry if I am wrong on this but I heard that if you use a bong than it is healthier since you don't inhale the smoke.
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Delphiki
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| sage_gerard wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana |
Whatever you say. |
Okay what are some then?
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sage_gerard
Snowy Owl
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Age: 22
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | | sage_gerard wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana |
Whatever you say. |
Okay what are some then? |
http://bit.ly/IJyfCQ
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Delphiki
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| sage_gerard wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | sage_gerard wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | But there are no long term issues with marijuana |
Whatever you say. |
Okay what are some then? |
http://bit.ly/IJyfCQ |
Sigh...
| Delphiki wrote: | | Max000 wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | Callista wrote: | Unwise, very unwise...
But I suppose there are worse things you could be doing. At least you didn't get blind drunk. |
How is it unwise? there are no long term issues with pot |
 Educate yourself. Start here: long-term effects of marijuana. |
well that is a google search...not a specific article. Why would I make such a claim without having researched it first
Just because I am only 19 does not make me oblivious. |
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf196288-0-15.html
You can not come up with an answer so you just say google it, nice job!
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