Difference between male and female autism?

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Verdandi
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04 May 2012, 3:18 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Yes don't over think it. I just found your video game comment funny. :lol:


Good. Your joke was funny and meant to be a joke. :D



Rascal77s
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04 May 2012, 3:27 am

TheHouseholdCat wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?


No, totally different. You see, grilling outdoors over FIRE goes back to the caveman days. The male brain is programmed to grill, it's our link to nature and our ancestors in these more 'civilized' times.

To be precise, men did the hunting because they were disposable. I don't know where that went these days...

Women stayed back in the cave with the kids and taking care of the food because they had to secure the offspring.


Don't worry we're still disposable. We're just being disposed of at a later age now.



OddDuckNash99
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04 May 2012, 6:49 am

Verdandi wrote:
It's ridiculous, people should be able to do what they want without having their interests or hobbies judged as being intended for a different gender.

While I'm in complete agreement with you that everybody should enjoy whatever hobbies/interests they want, it is undeniable that gender-specific hobbies/interests exist in the NT world. Ask most females whether they'd rather go shopping or read a science textbook, and it's not hard to figure out which one the vast majority would pick...


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Verdandi
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04 May 2012, 7:31 am

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It's ridiculous, people should be able to do what they want without having their interests or hobbies judged as being intended for a different gender.

While I'm in complete agreement with you that everybody should enjoy whatever hobbies/interests they want, it is undeniable that gender-specific hobbies/interests exist in the NT world. Ask most females whether they'd rather go shopping or read a science textbook, and it's not hard to figure out which one the vast majority would pick...


I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. I know generally which interests or activities are going to be perceived as "male" or "female" because this is made explicit. I don't see the point of them, or why people invest so much into them or why they are gendered at all. I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."



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04 May 2012, 8:15 am

Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."

Yes, it is cultural assumptions. That's what I meant- activities aren't inherently "male" or "female," but cultural expectations abound in NT society and give these labels. There are "male" and "female" activities, but yes, the reasoning behind the label is cultural assumptions. While it has been shown many times that female brains are wired to be more verbal and empathic/"motherly" and male brains are wired to be better at visual-spatial rotation, these skills have just formed stereotypical gender roles in society, unfortunately. Female brains can do math/science just as well as male brains can do English/writing.


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Verdandi
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04 May 2012, 8:18 am

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."

Yes, it is cultural assumptions. That's what I meant- activities aren't inherently "male" or "female," but cultural expectations abound in NT society and give these labels. There are "male" and "female" activities, but yes, the reasoning behind the label is cultural assumptions. While it has been shown many times that female brains are wired to be more verbal and empathic/"motherly" and male brains are wired to be better at visual-spatial rotation, these skills have just formed stereotypical gender roles in society, unfortunately. Female brains can do math/science just as well as male brains can do English/writing.


Thank you for the clarifying answer. I wasn't sure what you were saying before.

Also, have you read about stereotype threat?



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04 May 2012, 8:30 am

Verdandi wrote:
I don't see the point of them, or why people invest so much into them or why they are gendered at all. I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."


I don't think there are absolute differences either, but I think individuals might be more or less likely to have an interest depending on gender. Maybe. It's hard to say when everyone is having it shoved down their throats from birth. There's no control group to provide a yardstick.



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04 May 2012, 8:34 am

Verdandi wrote:
Also, have you read about stereotype threat?

Yes, I have. I feel this plays an important role, especially in girls' mathematics scores. I am a believer in the testosterone theory, though, as it's been shown many times how testosterone does change the wiring of the brain. But in NTs, I think stereotype threat and gender expectations are much more in play for gender-specific interests/hobbies than sex hormones.


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04 May 2012, 11:02 am

I agree, most of the differences seem to be more along left brain/right brain dominance. Maybe the lists of traits should be sorted that way instead of by "male" and "female" tendencies.

I'm female and I am more creative/fantasy oriented - and I'm left-handed. I can do math, but it's a monumental effort. I like to knit, and when designing something the math just about kills me. I can do it, but it seems to take forever, when I really just want to get on to the knitting, creating part.

But some of the traits are driven, I think, by social pressures. Girls are pressured more to socialize, from the time we're born. We're supposed to be cute, smile, make eye contact, and make friends and gab a lot, or as someone said be quiet and demure - depending on our culture. Honestly, even as an adult, there are times when I find that being silly and acting dumb - which I sometimes do naturally - has gotten me a lot of positive male attention - mostly from older males. While being intelligent, logical and quietly stating my opinion got me some dirty looks, and in one case an older male who wouldn't speak to me again that day. That's a lot of nurture versus nature influence!



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04 May 2012, 11:11 am

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."

Yes, it is cultural assumptions. That's what I meant- activities aren't inherently "male" or "female," but cultural expectations abound in NT society and give these labels. There are "male" and "female" activities, but yes, the reasoning behind the label is cultural assumptions. While it has been shown many times that female brains are wired to be more verbal and empathic/"motherly" and male brains are wired to be better at visual-spatial rotation, these skills have just formed stereotypical gender roles in society, unfortunately. Female brains can do math/science just as well as male brains can do English/writing.


I have a friend who got a masters degree before I met her. Since I've known her she also got an MBA with a 3.98 GPA. She has always told me she is terrible at math (and she believes it), even while she was getting A's in math heavy classes for her MBA. This always seemed strange to me but it's society's influence telling her females are not good at math.



qwan
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04 May 2012, 12:59 pm

houla wrote:
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So I've read that many females fail to get diagnosed due to the criteria leaning towards the more male symptoms and that females display symptoms of autism/aspergers differently.


I'm female and I was diagnosed very young and there's never been any doubt that I'm autistic 8O

I know I'm a little/loy clueless but I don't understand how my symptoms would display differently if I was male? Would my sensory issues be different? Would my speech delay have been different? Would my tendency to take everything literally be different? Would my lack of interest in people by different? Would my cluelessness around interacting be different? Would my overwhelming need to be completely absorbed and undisturbed when I'm focused on something be different? And the list goes on...What does my gender have to do with my autism?

I guess I need to read some of these books.

For the record. My empathy quotient was 10 and my systematizing was 33.

As girls brains naturally seem to pick up on speech earlier than boys, it's possible the speech delay in autistic males and females could arguably be slightly different, baring this in mind.
Also, I think the more social impact of gender typed upbringing would indeed effect one's ability to interact with others. Males are often discouraged from showing some emotions (sadness, hurt) and girls also (anger, aggression), some of these things are helpful for society, but on the other hand, in particular with boys, they're not show ways to express the feelings that aren't socially acceptable for males. Some of these feelings might come out in more 'male' behaviour. Basically, they express their pain with aggression, whereas a girl shows her anger by crying.
This might mean a boy might have a very violent breakdown whereas a girl may breakdown crying. (Don't quote me, I'm rambling from the top of my head!) So it's possible girls will be considered drama queens, where as a very violent breakdown from a boy would be seen as something that needs to be looked into.
The reaction they had could have been from the same thing (change in routine, for example) but due to their environment they learn to express it slightly differently, and thus the world perceives the problems completely differently, whereas inside, the problem is exactly the same.

I guess the argument is that we all know a disorder in one country might not even be classed as a disorder in another country.
But the problem is, boy and girls almost seem to be brought up in different cultures, within the same actual culture. And its possible this 'cultural difference' might effect the manifestation of the same disorder.



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04 May 2012, 1:00 pm

edgewaters wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
I just don't fit the stereotyped model for the way my culture thinks girls should talk/dress/act/work/be. Don't get it wrong - I'm very secure in the fact that I'm female and NOT male, but I don't fit the stereotype. I FEEL more neutral.


Male here but I get exactly the same feeling. I don't care if I don't fit the stereotype, I don't fight against it but I don't try to conform to it either. It seems childish to do either of those things. I also find that I'm repelled by very exaggerated expressions of masculinity/femininity.

I'm biologically female but usually list myself as male as I feel neither and it feels like one way to attempt to even it out.
I consider myself agender. I don't feel attached to my female body, or the idea of having a male one. *shrugs*



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04 May 2012, 2:35 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't see the point of them, or why people invest so much into them or why they are gendered at all. I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."


I don't think there are absolute differences either, but I think individuals might be more or less likely to have an interest depending on gender. Maybe. It's hard to say when everyone is having it shoved down their throats from birth. There's no control group to provide a yardstick.


It is possible that because girls are forced to act more 'girly' in our society, that the behaviours that they would normally display from autism that could be considered masculine are in effect watered down a little by their environment then.
In which case the behaviour difference between male and female autistics' isn't inherent, but the gender differences of society and the pressure and effect these have on people could effect how one presents, and that this should be considered during assessment.



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04 May 2012, 2:39 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."

Yes, it is cultural assumptions. That's what I meant- activities aren't inherently "male" or "female," but cultural expectations abound in NT society and give these labels. There are "male" and "female" activities, but yes, the reasoning behind the label is cultural assumptions. While it has been shown many times that female brains are wired to be more verbal and empathic/"motherly" and male brains are wired to be better at visual-spatial rotation, these skills have just formed stereotypical gender roles in society, unfortunately. Female brains can do math/science just as well as male brains can do English/writing.


I have a friend who got a masters degree before I met her. Since I've known her she also got an MBA with a 3.98 GPA. She has always told me she is terrible at math (and she believes it), even while she was getting A's in math heavy classes for her MBA. This always seemed strange to me but it's society's influence telling her females are not good at math.

Maybe, or perhaps she just isn't confident. A lot of smart people are hard on themselves, and it's not normally seen positively when a female seems arrogant. They often seem to say they're rubbish at things or ugly when no one else thinks that way. Not sure why entirely though.



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04 May 2012, 2:52 pm

qwan wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe that "gender-specific hobbies/interests" are a reflection of anything but cultural assumptions, and are certainly not innate properties of being "male" or "female."

Yes, it is cultural assumptions. That's what I meant- activities aren't inherently "male" or "female," but cultural expectations abound in NT society and give these labels. There are "male" and "female" activities, but yes, the reasoning behind the label is cultural assumptions. While it has been shown many times that female brains are wired to be more verbal and empathic/"motherly" and male brains are wired to be better at visual-spatial rotation, these skills have just formed stereotypical gender roles in society, unfortunately. Female brains can do math/science just as well as male brains can do English/writing.


I have a friend who got a masters degree before I met her. Since I've known her she also got an MBA with a 3.98 GPA. She has always told me she is terrible at math (and she believes it), even while she was getting A's in math heavy classes for her MBA. This always seemed strange to me but it's society's influence telling her females are not good at math.

Maybe, or perhaps she just isn't confident. A lot of smart people are hard on themselves, and it's not normally seen positively when a female seems arrogant. They often seem to say they're rubbish at things or ugly when no one else thinks that way. Not sure why entirely though.


I've gotten a few As in math and I'm really not good at it.

I don't like false modesty. Not all men are good at math, either and l'm a woman this alleged "male" wiring.

I worked my ass off to get those As, I can do math but I really don't "learn" it. Or very little of it and what I learn one day can disappear the next. Fortunately it's the only subject I really struggle with.


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04 May 2012, 3:10 pm

I'm a woman with an apparently "male" brain, with advanced degrees and I am good at most areas of math (it's a pretty big subject area), so I guess I sound arrogant.

I've found this thread very confusing, so I've reread it a couple of times and I've come to the conclusion that observations in it explain why the majority of people mistakenly assume that I'm gay when they meet me. I simply don't seem to fit or have been aware of all of these gender expectations. Huh, I guess I learned something today :!:


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