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naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4778
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
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 Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:33 am Post subject: |
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How can you doubt that humans coexisted with dinosaurs?
Didnt you grow up watching the Flintstones?
Are you gonna trust in those lying textbooks?
Or in the Flintstones? |
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TheBicyclingGuitarist
Phoenix
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| naturalplastic wrote: | How can you doubt that humans coexisted with dinosaurs?
Didnt you grow up watching the Flintstones?
Are you gonna trust in those lying textbooks?
Or in the Flintstones? |
The amount of reality denial for such people is mind-boggling. It isn't just the textbooks that would be lying if humans and dinosaurs coexisted. IF that really happened, what we think we know of scientific knowledge would have to be so wrong that basically nothing built using that understanding would work. It isn't just denying biology. To deny evolution basically means rejecting all of science, because measurements from every branch of science all point to the same reality.
Also, as I have asked many times, if evolution did not happen then why oh why did God plant so MUCH evidence of so many different types that ALL support evolution, and NO evidence at all that falsifies it? I've heard some people say with a straight face that this is a test of our faith, or that Satan planted the fossils to deceive us, but why would God allow that? What kind of God would be like that? Would you really want to worship a malicious prankster who will send you to burn in Hell forever for accepting such evidence as real if it is really all a huge trick? And if it is a huge trick and we can't trust what we can observe and measure, that would include the Bible too! If we can't trust the rocks and fossils and DNA that were allegedly made by God, how can we possibly trust a BOOK written by men using words? Words have many failings in communicating direct experience or spiritual truths. I wrote a song about this a long time ago called
What Can I Say?
Usually though, most people who argue against evolution are arguing against a straw-man caricature and they are sincerely unaware of the VAST amounts of evidence that all clearly show it happens, whether they like it or not! They try to blow off finds such as Tiktaalik (pay attention cyberscan. this is an example of evidence you asked to see about the fish to amphibian transition), or human chromosome 2. Some creationists ask for ridiculous things like a cat giving birth to a dog or a crocoduck fossil to "prove" evolution, when in fact, if evidence of that nature were to be found it would NOT support evolution as we understand it but would instead be major problems to account for in our current understanding of it.
I wrote another song more than twenty years ago about this "controversy" (and let me be clear, there is a controversy but it is NOT a scientific controversy but a social and religious one.) Sadly, as at least one poster demonstrates in this thread, my Evolution song is still relevant.
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“When you ride over sharps, you get flats!”--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008 |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1342
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Religious Apes with Technology. |
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| cyberscan wrote: | | CornerPuzzlePieces wrote: |
Take this one for example:
"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." (Genesis 1:16-17)
We know now that there is no second light source, it is the light reflecting off of the moon. God is lying to you. If anything, god is taking advantage of your lack of knowledge to gain power over you.
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Both are still lights one is a direct source, and the other is an indirect (reflected) source.
You have very little understanding of language. Have you ever heard of the term the sun is rising (coming up) or the sun is setting (going down)? We all know that the earth is rotating, and yet most people including scientists use these terms. These things are described as a matter of perspective.
| CornerPuzzlePieces wrote: |
If a teacher did this in schools, they would be jailed, no?
As far as prejudice goes, perhaps you have a point. I realize that religions can have followers that are also scientists, or smart people
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You want to go there, fine. We'll go there. Teachers get away with all kinds of things. Teachers and many textbooks still use the Haeckel's embryo chart which is a known fake, and yet nothing happens to them. Many of the "prehumans" in textbooks are not drawn based on whole fossils, but rather from the figment of the artists imagination.
| CornerPuzzlePieces wrote: |
However I never said anything about neurodiversity. An autistic can believe as much as anyone else. It's a matter of which stance on the matter benefits society more.. Regardless of the fact that most people expect some kind of reward for believing in the :right: thing.
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Actually, you did. However, look at your term, religiotard. As far as expecting a reward for believing the right thing, I already have it. I have a much better life HERE AND NOW than I did when I was a follower of Evolutionism. Following Evolutionism has not made a single advance in society or has benefited society. Biology, chemistry, physics, engineering sciences have as well as some sects of Christianity have. People can study biology and use knowledge gained from it to contribute to society and make discoveries without believing that all life has evolved from a primeval organism.
| CornerPuzzlePieces wrote: |
If god exists, he is testing us. And those who reject him pass the test. Eve was fully within her rights as a free willed being to disobey the controlling god figure. After all he made her so. I applaud the original sin you could say. There is nothing I find wrong with it. 
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He gave people free will for them to choose their path. Yes, we are free to choose to reject or keep His teachings. I prefer to keep his teachings. I was once an Evolutionist, and now I am a Bible believer. It wasn't until I was in my second 22 years of my life, that I began to believe. Comparing the two halves of my life, I can say that I am much better off as a believer is scripture rather than a believer in Evolutionism.
As far as obeying scripture, we would be better off if people adhered to the teachings. If everybody obeyed just one or two or the commands - "Don't steal" and "Don't murder." We wouldn't need locks on our doors, and we would be over taxed and over burdened by government. The problem is that each person decides what is right and wrong, and because of it we have so many disagreements, war, strife, repression, etc. My car broke down in a predominately Muslim area. People there saw me working on the car, and several came out to see if they could help, or to offer me a drink, and to offer me their phones to call someone. Years before, my car broke down is a nice looking neighborhood in a predominately non religious area. People passed by and not one stopped. I sat there until the tow truck finally arrived.
| CornerPuzzlePieces wrote: |
People push this stuff onto their kids and their kids have no choice but to accept it. I want the content in the bible to be restricted, by age, to those who are competent enough to make their own decisions. JUST LIKE ALCOHOL. And we all know how stingy religious followers are with alcohol, so why not doctrine as well?
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Your statement about how religious people react to alcohol is untrue for many religious people. I know many religious families where children are and were allowed to consume alcohol. I know personally, because I have seen it with my own eyes. Most of these children are very successful adults.
| CornerPuzzlePieces wrote: |
If you can wait until drinking age to be shown the bible and STILL believe it, go right ahead. I'm not proposing a full out ban on anything of the thought, just how the beliefs are formed. At an age where they can make the choice for themselves.
Indoctrination at a young age, that is the crime here. |
This is and was the policy in most Communist countries. You should read your history. The religion of Evolutionism is pounded into the heads of school children every grade in the name of science, and the children are forced to go along with it. In fact, if they don't at least pretend that they agree with it, they will get a poor grade. This is the essence of indoctrination. I have learned so many things in school that I found later to be untrue. Schools should not be in the business of teaching the religion of Evolutionism and disguising it as science.
This indoctrination starts at a young age and is the real crime. The first Amendment of the U.S. Constitution prohibits the establishment of a government sanctioned religion such as a denomination of Christianity or the religion of Evolutionism. However, the government is not allowed to forbid the free exercise of religion either. |
Just a general comment...there is help available for mental illnesses(eg. Delusional Disorder, persecution complex, etc...) for those who require such services.
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist.
Last edited by slave on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LookTwice
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 31, 2011
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Religious Apes with Technology. |
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| slave wrote: |
Just a general comment...there is help available for mental illnesses(eg. Delusional Disorder, persecution complex, etc...)available for those who require such services. |
Thinly veiled ad hominem. |
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naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4778
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Even if Marco Polo really did see living "dinosaurs" in China that would only create more problems for Creationists than it would solve.
First: dinosaurs are the least of it. Did historic people see also see living trilobites, and Mastidons, as well as seeing dinosaurs? There are successions upon successions of entire extinct floras and faunas in the fossil record that according to you are all still around. Well...where are all of these ecosystems and their casts of extinct creatures?
And if dinosaurs still live among us... or did live among us and only died out sometime shortly after Marco Polo's time then you have to explain why dinosaurs are so smart AFTER they die.
How do dead dinosaurs know which strata in the ground to go to after they die? They not only know not to mix their bones with human bones (or the bones of any other creatures from the Tertariary Epoch), but they even know not to mix their remains with the remains of the wrong other dinosaurs ( creatatous dinos dont mix with either triassic nor with jursasic dinos).
How do the dead dinos manage all of that? |
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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| naturalplastic wrote: | | Even if Marco Polo really did see living "dinosaurs" in China that would only create more problems for Creationists than it would solve. |
So-called eyewitness testimony in Marco Polo's book is hearsay at best, creative storytelling more likely. Even it it were eyewitness testimony, contrary to what many Christians seem to think that is the LEAST reliable type of evidence. Ask twenty people what they saw and they usually give twenty different accounts that not infrequently contradict each other.
The evidence for evolution was so overwhelming even in Darwin's time that people all over the world slapped their hands to their forehead and said "Duh! Of course! It's so obvious!" Since then we have learned much more about the mechanisms of how evolution happens. We have tons of fossils that show a clear progression and development of features through space and time that evolution explains nicely but creationism does not. Also, even if there were no fossils at all, there is way more than sufficient evidence of other types (such as nested patterns of data in different species' DNA) where evolution can be reasonably called an observed FACT of nature. Evolution is no more or no less "just a theory" than gravity is "just a theory."
Just in the past twenty years we have found so much more evidence of evolution that I cannot take anyone seriously who claims there is no such evidence or that their opinion explains it equally well or better. We've found fossil hominids with several skeletal features perfectly intermediate between modern humans and other modern apes. We've found fish with legs just like the "Darwin fish" that mocks the Christian fish logo, exactly when and where such fossils should be found if evolution were true and radioactive dating worked. We've found whales with legs! The most recent Gallup poll shows that nearly half of adult Americans have young earth creationist viewpoints. This is insane. It is just as ridiculous and just as wrong as if half of our population were to insist the earth is really flat. It is that stupid.
Actually, as I said in an earlier post but it bears repeating: I personally think it more shameful now to deny the fact of evolution than it would have been to believe in a flat earth if you lived a few hundred years ago. With the amount of information available and technology available to share it instantaneously around the world, there really is no excuse for such ignorance. I fear for the future of our country, our species and our planet because of the large numbers of such unbelievably ignorant people.
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“When you ride over sharps, you get flats!”--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008 |
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ruveyn
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Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29687
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Marco might have seen Komodo Dragons, so called. They are a kind of lizard.
ruveyn |
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CornerPuzzlePieces
Toucan
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Age: 21
Posts: 295
Location: B.C Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote: |
Actually, as I said in an earlier post but it bears repeating: I personally think it more shameful now to deny the fact of evolution than it would have been to believe in a flat earth if you lived a few hundred years ago. With the amount of information available and technology available to share it instantaneously around the world, there really is no excuse for such ignorance. I fear for the future of our country, our species and our planet because of the large numbers of such unbelievably ignorant people. |
Indeed! People now have the entire summation of mankind's knowledge at their fingertips, there is no excuse.
Scientists can recognize a primary source from a story, written by a brother's aunt's uncle's second twice removed cousin. Religious people aren't smart enough to do that.
Why the bible is considered a primary source is beyond me. |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1342
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| naturalplastic wrote: | Even if Marco Polo really did see living "dinosaurs" in China that would only create more problems for Creationists than it would solve.
First: dinosaurs are the least of it. Did historic people see also see living trilobites, and Mastidons, as well as seeing dinosaurs? There are successions upon successions of entire extinct floras and faunas in the fossil record that according to you are all still around. Well...where are all of these ecosystems and their casts of extinct creatures?
And if dinosaurs still live among us... or did live among us and only died out sometime shortly after Marco Polo's time then you have to explain why dinosaurs are so smart AFTER they die.
How do dead dinosaurs know which strata in the ground to go to after they die? They not only know not to mix their bones with human bones (or the bones of any other creatures from the Tertariary Epoch), but they even know not to mix their remains with the remains of the wrong other dinosaurs ( creatatous dinos dont mix with either triassic nor with jursasic dinos).
How do the dead dinos manage all of that? |
cuz they gots lots of brains!
sarc off
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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