Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14833 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject:
I'm just more partial to only psychiatrists - PHD, MD - having the ability to initiate/authorize a session, if they have a sub-thereapist who strictly trained in it that's fine but make it so that its come from a specific closed access venue rather than sitting around the back room of most pharmacies.
My snag with blind-eye legality is that the propaganda has to continue and the cultural stigma has to stay that its like sniffing glue - something people do to get f'd up as its primary purpose. That often means that a lot of people who'd benefit from it tremendously would have deep seated emotional aversion to ever trying it, which is really an informational problem.
Joined: Aug 17, 2006 Age: 40 Posts: 2426 Location: Ontario
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'm just more partial to only psychiatrists - PHD, MD - having the ability to initiate/authorize a session, if they have a sub-thereapist who strictly trained in it that's fine but make it so that its come from a specific closed access venue rather than sitting around the back room of most pharmacies.
They can do that here. A practitioner is theoretically allowed to make use of LSD legally, they have to file a 30 day notice and get approval. But approval is probably difficult and few practitioners are likely to make use of LSD.
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 4501 Location: Southeast U.S.A.
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject:
edgewaters wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Should LSD be legal?
It's your brain to fry but don't expect to be re-habbed or otherwise supported at taxpayer expense if you choose to over-indulge........
I can verify that the up-side people talk about with LSD and psilocybin is legit - from experience. The only thing is it needs a cultural maturity and strict unspoken 'place' and purpose before I think they could ever legalize it cart blanc.
I'm really divided on this one because I don't like the thought of increased availability, I like the fact that both access and practice are restricted and restrained. Best scenario for me is they keep it on the books but turn a blind eye for the most part.
Problem I see with leaving a law on the books but not actively enforcing it then it becomes selective enforcement which has a tendency to be abused.
I'd rather it be either legal or illegal and accept the pitfalls of one or the other......
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14833 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject:
IMHO (not to negate anything said by you two but to say it in abstract) - Oxycontin isn't illegal, Ketamine for hospital use and veterinary isn't illegal, DXM comes in cough syrup over the counter and little has changed there. I think things just needed to be sorted out by society and the straw boogeymen need dissipate.
Joined: Aug 17, 2006 Age: 40 Posts: 2426 Location: Ontario
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject:
Raptor wrote:
Problem I see with leaving a law on the books but not actively enforcing it then it becomes selective enforcement which has a tendency to be abused.
I'd rather it be either legal or illegal and accept the pitfalls of one or the other......
Well you do have a point there. I guess there are problems with any approach, just a question of the lesser evil.
Joined: Aug 17, 2006 Age: 40 Posts: 2426 Location: Ontario
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
IMHO (not to negate anything said by you two but to say it in abstract) - Oxycontin isn't illegal, Ketamine for hospital use and veterinary isn't illegal, DXM comes in cough syrup over the counter and little has changed there. I think things just needed to be sorted out by society and the straw boogeymen need dissipate.
We had a bag, a bag, of PCP at a stables I worked at. About the size of a sandwich bag. Place was full of kids and teens. Any one of them could've just scooped out a few ounces of the stuff with nobody the wiser. It was just in a little area off the aisle, not even really a room, where all the supplements were kept, across the aisle from the tack room.
I'm sure it would be if you were open-minded and mellow enough. Come on, man. Get naked.
Quote:
When I said that LSD induces schizophrenia in susceptible people, I mean that susceptible people will experience a break from reality that lasts much longer than the actual high.
Sweet.
Quote:
Anyone can deal with a bad trip or a euphoric trip that is temporary. That is not schizophrenia.
But just imagine if you could be thoroughly out-of-touch with reality all the time. You could be like Rush Limbaugh.
Quote:
LSD induces temporary psychosis in most people, which tends to have a euphoric flavor (unless you are prone to have bad trips)
Yeah, now just imagine if you could do that without having to take drugs. I mean, wouldn't that be great?
I'm sure it would be if you were open-minded and mellow enough. Come on, man. Get naked.
Quote:
When I said that LSD induces schizophrenia in susceptible people, I mean that susceptible people will experience a break from reality that lasts much longer than the actual high.
Sweet.
Quote:
Anyone can deal with a bad trip or a euphoric trip that is temporary. That is not schizophrenia.
But just imagine if you could be thoroughly out-of-touch with reality all the time. You could be like Rush Limbaugh.
Quote:
LSD induces temporary psychosis in most people, which tends to have a euphoric flavor (unless you are prone to have bad trips)
Yeah, now just imagine if you could do that without having to take drugs. I mean, wouldn't that be great?
Oh, yeah.
I'm assuming you are joking but I don't find it very funny.
I have done LSD and it was extremely enjoyable.
I also have heard voices when I was not under the influence of any drugs and the two experiences were not comparable in the least.
I'm not trying to be a killjoy here but I just don't find it funny.
If you want to have an idea of what schizophrenia is like, take a bunch of benadryl. You will regret it. _________________ I have called myself an atheist in the past. But I am really agnostic. Just to clarify.
This guy died from LSD experiments done by the government. Obviously, a very large part of the problem was that he was unaware that he was under the influence (unlike most people who voluntarily take LSD) but my point still stands that this guy did not have a very good time and ended up killing himself.
As I have already said, I do think should it be legalized, but it's not like it's candy or anything. _________________ I have called myself an atheist in the past. But I am really agnostic. Just to clarify.
Should LSD be legal?
It's your brain to fry but don't expect to be re-habbed or otherwise supported at taxpayer expense if you choose to over-indulge........
Because no tax payers ever take drugs, get addicted to drugs or have bad experiences with drugs that require medical attention? Besides a major overdose of acid would 'fry' the brain, but an appropriate dose certainly should not have that effect.
Hey, if ya wanna play be prepared to pay.....
That's the point...if one pays taxes they have every right to expect the taxes be used to help them. Most citizens have paid tax at least once and taxation without representation is a dangerous game...encouraging the idea that one should only benefit from the tax money while they are paying taxes is ridiculous and fails to represent all the citizens who based on the constitution all have equal rights.
I think I prefer the united states of america over the facist nation of america.
Fair enough; I'll have my mortgage company bill the federal government from now on since we don't have to pay for our own choices and, according to some, housing is a human right.
Whatever, man. I've been homeless, and I can tell you, anyone who can cope with adversity can do without central heating. Newspapers make awesome insulators. That's if you are at the prime of your life and generally in good mental and physical health. On the other hand, if you think that we ought to leave children, elderly people, people with disabilities, the blind or the mentally ill out on the streets, sleeping on pieces of cardboard, and not do anything about it, you go ahead and say that. Go ahead and say that, and see how people react to you.
Now, let me point out to you real quick just how bogus you are in general. Rehab centers draw charity money; prisons don't. Rehab is effective at changing behavior; prisons aren't. Reformed drug-addicts get jobs and become taxpayers; recividism-prone prison inmates don't. You don't actually have to be intelligent to figure out that rehab is a lot more desirable for the taxpayer than prison.
Last edited by WilliamWDelaney on Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
I'm sure it would be if you were open-minded and mellow enough. Come on, man. Get naked.
Quote:
When I said that LSD induces schizophrenia in susceptible people, I mean that susceptible people will experience a break from reality that lasts much longer than the actual high.
Sweet.
Quote:
Anyone can deal with a bad trip or a euphoric trip that is temporary. That is not schizophrenia.
But just imagine if you could be thoroughly out-of-touch with reality all the time. You could be like Rush Limbaugh.
Quote:
LSD induces temporary psychosis in most people, which tends to have a euphoric flavor (unless you are prone to have bad trips)
Yeah, now just imagine if you could do that without having to take drugs. I mean, wouldn't that be great?
Oh, yeah.
I'm assuming you are joking but I don't find it very funny.
I have actually dealt with serious mental illness, and I find it hilarious.
Quote:
I have done LSD and it was extremely enjoyable.
The only non-tobacco/alcohol drug I've ever tried is weed, and it sucked.
Quote:
I also have heard voices when I was not under the influence of any drugs and the two experiences were not comparable in the least.
Actually, hallucinations in schizophrenia are kind of rare.
Quote:
I'm not trying to be a killjoy here but I just don't find it funny.
That is your misfortune.
Quote:
If you want to have an idea of what schizophrenia is like, take a bunch of benadryl. You will regret it.
Antimuscarinics! Yay! However, better animal models for schizophrenia have been produced with PCP. Try that! It might be fun!
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 4501 Location: Southeast U.S.A.
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Should LSD be legal?
It's your brain to fry but don't expect to be re-habbed or otherwise supported at taxpayer expense if you choose to over-indulge........
Because no tax payers ever take drugs, get addicted to drugs or have bad experiences with drugs that require medical attention? Besides a major overdose of acid would 'fry' the brain, but an appropriate dose certainly should not have that effect.
Hey, if ya wanna play be prepared to pay.....
That's the point...if one pays taxes they have every right to expect the taxes be used to help them. Most citizens have paid tax at least once and taxation without representation is a dangerous game...encouraging the idea that one should only benefit from the tax money while they are paying taxes is ridiculous and fails to represent all the citizens who based on the constitution all have equal rights.
I think I prefer the united states of america over the facist nation of america.
Fair enough; I'll have my mortgage company bill the federal government from now on since we don't have to pay for our own choices and, according to some, housing is a human right.
Whatever, man. I've been homeless, and I can tell you, anyone who can cope with adversity can do without central heating. Newspapers make awesome insulators. That's if you are at the prime of your life and generally in good mental and physical health. On the other hand, if you think that we ought to leave children, elderly people, people with disabilities, the blind or the mentally ill out on the streets, sleeping on pieces of cardboard, and not do anything about it, you go ahead and say that. Go ahead and say that, and see how people react to you.
Now, let me point out to you real quick just how bogus you are in general. Rehab centers draw charity money; prisons don't. Rehab is effective at changing behavior; prisons aren't. Reformed drug-addicts get jobs and become taxpayers; recividism-prone prison inmates don't. You don't actually have to be intelligent to figure out that rehab is a lot more desirable for the taxpayer than prison.
Quote:
Now, let me point out to you real quick just how bogus you are in general.
Should it surprise you that I'm "bogus" when you've already declared me to be "poison" and someone that should be in a political re-education camp?
Besides, calling someone bogus is a personal attack.
Joined: Jan 07, 2011 Age: 23 Posts: 14828 Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'm just more partial to only psychiatrists - PHD, MD - having the ability to initiate/authorize a session, if they have a sub-thereapist who strictly trained in it that's fine but make it so that its come from a specific closed access venue rather than sitting around the back room of most pharmacies.
My snag with blind-eye legality is that the propaganda has to continue and the cultural stigma has to stay that its like sniffing glue - something people do to get f'd up as its primary purpose. That often means that a lot of people who'd benefit from it tremendously would have deep seated emotional aversion to ever trying it, which is really an informational problem.
Hmm I don't know I think considering the nature of tripping maybe some high up psychiatrist should not be required to authorize a trip...also where are you visualizing the trip taking place like what sort of setting. Would a psychiatrist really venture out into nature to keep an eye on someones trip? _________________ It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream.
Should it surprise you that I'm "bogus" when you've already declared me to be "poison" and someone that should be in a political re-education camp?
Look, I am sorry that I called you "poison," and I realize how malconstructive it is to insult you personally. I realize, in more mature perspective, that you actually consider your views to be just, although I disagree with some of them very strongly. I hope that you might reconsider some of your views, but I no longer wish to deride your character for holding them.
Quote:
Besides, calling someone bogus is a personal attack.
Then I apologize for using language that could be taken personally. I ought to have been more clear in addressing your views, rather than your character.
I would like to hear your responses to my more salient points, and I am willing to listen to your views with an open mind.
