|
Cio
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 01, 2012
Posts: 37
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Well, Autism Speaks is controversial (thankfully, not just here). But it's also a US based, donation driven organisation. If any interested party suspects vaccinations trigger autism (unlikely*, but hey, smoking pot can trigger schizophrenia!) and would somehow be unable to stop this research (since 2004) by cutting his funding, then yes, this could be the case.
But given the nature of Autism Speaks I can't imagine it being that hard to influence with a big pile of money (over 8 years) even assuming vaccinations trigger autism spectrum disorders and someone is certain enough about this to sabotage research. A plain old "you shouldn't examine this part of the human being, God would be angry" seems more likely to me. Or simply an accident, perhaps "Autism Speaks should stop looking for a cure" motivation in case of malicious intent.
*Vaccinations might train the immune system, but suppressing it doesn't do anything for those on the spectrum, so I don't see how they could. Then again, deductive reasoning is no replacement for medical research. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cio wrote: | Well, Autism Speaks is controversial (thankfully, not just here). But it's also a US based, donation driven organisation. If any interested party suspects vaccinations trigger autism (unlikely*, but hey, smoking pot can trigger schizophrenia!) and would somehow be unable to stop this research (since 2004) by cutting his funding, then yes, this could be the case.
But given the nature of Autism Speaks I can't imagine it being that hard to influence with a big pile of money (over 8 years) even assuming vaccinations trigger autism spectrum disorders and someone is certain enough about this to sabotage research. A plain old "you shouldn't examine this part of the human being, God would be angry" seems more likely to me. Or simply an accident, perhaps "Autism Speaks should stop looking for a cure" motivation in case of malicious intent.
*Vaccinations might train the immune system, but suppressing it doesn't do anything for those on the spectrum, so I don't see how they could. Then again, deductive reasoning is no replacement for medical research. |
smoking cannabis can contribute to schizophrenia in some people, but based on my experiance with prozac it seems that could do the same thing to, luckily it only gave me temporary psychosis like symptoms. Cannabis is what i had to use to stay calm enough not to do anything stupid from the prozac effects. Anyways since people are born with autism and don't later develop it I still have a hard time seeing how a vaccine would cause it since usually one has to be born before they can get vaccinations.
Also my immune system seems to be just fine and apparently I have AS and have had all the normal vaccinations.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87208
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jackbus01
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 1197
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bnky wrote: | Hmmm ... Suspicious!
For the freezer, the meter AND both alarms to fail at the same time...  Unlikely |
Yeah, and the article that I read said that the temp gauge was reading cold--temperature gauges don't fail like that. While it is possible that the alarms were set up incorrectly to begin with, the whole story doesn't seem plausible.
Also months went by before anyone noticed!
It is either gross incompetence or sabotage. Either way I would think that a thorough investigation should be done.
I don't know why but I'm betting sabotage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Brain soup anyone?
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
cyberdad
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Age: 45
Posts: 1634
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jackbus01 wrote: | | bnky wrote: | Hmmm ... Suspicious!
For the freezer, the meter AND both alarms to fail at the same time... Unlikely |
Yeah, and the article that I read said that the temp gauge was reading cold--temperature gauges don't fail like that. While it is possible that the alarms were set up incorrectly to begin with, the whole story doesn't seem plausible.
Also months went by before anyone noticed!
It is either gross incompetence or sabotage. Either way I would think that a thorough investigation should be done.
I don't know why but I'm betting sabotage. |
What is the motivation for sabotage? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Cio
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 01, 2012
Posts: 37
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: | smoking cannabis can contribute to schizophrenia in some people, but based on my experiance with prozac it seems that could do the same thing to, luckily it only gave me temporary psychosis like symptoms. Cannabis is what i had to use to stay calm enough not to do anything stupid from the prozac effects. Anyways since people are born with autism and don't later develop it I still have a hard time seeing how a vaccine would cause it since usually one has to be born before they can get vaccinations.
Also my immune system seems to be just fine and apparently I have AS and have had all the normal vaccinations. |
Your personal experience doesn't qualify as scientific method and frankly, doesn't help in the question "can you trigger persistent psychological conditions", because you can. Most likely, those who have autism spectrum disorders are born with it. But you say it like it is a proven fact!
IIRC the average age of diagnosis in the US is ~5 years. That's quite a while after the first vaccination. There was a movie from a TED conference (found via this forum) where someone managed to see autism spectrum disorder in babies by mapping eye movement while showing scenes from everyday life (faces/eyes draw less natural attention then objects for those on the spectrum). So I don't disagree. I just can't find decent argumentation in your post.
OT: I guess we all have such animosity towards Autism Speaks, then we would rather believe someone sabotaged the storage of brains "on our behalf" then assume an accident. Still not sure if this is a good thing though, I like scientific insights backed up by statistics.
Also, yes. BRAAAAAAAAAAINS! 
Last edited by Cio on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dillogic
you know how it goes
Joined: Nov 25, 2011
Posts: 3338
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BRAIIIIINNNS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
blue_bean
Buy me a Pony!
Joined: Apr 14, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 8231
Location: sailing the accountancy
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dillogic wrote: | | BRAIIIIINNNS! |
I was gonna say, maybe a horde of zombies got a little peckish through the night and they wanted to thaw them to make them edible.
Autistic brains being the particular culinary fave of the month. |
|
| Back to top |
|
YippySkippy
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 1524
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
My opinion is that some people are born autistic.
Also, some NTs could have a hundred vaccinations and be fine.
However, there *may* be a small number of NT babies who are negatively affected by vaccines and develop autism as a result. If the research was examining that possibility, then both the government (which is willing to protect the herd at the expense of the few) and the pharmacutical industry (which wants $$) would have motivation to commit the sabotage.
To widen the net further, I can see how ANY industry using chemicals which might affect a person's immune system would have motivation to stop this research. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Icheb
Fortysomething
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2056
Location: Switzerland
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| blue_bean wrote: | | Dillogic wrote: | | BRAIIIIINNNS! |
I was gonna say, maybe a horde of zombies got a little peckish through the night and they wanted to thaw them to make them edible.
Autistic brains being the particular culinary fave of the month. |
Don't know why they would think they taste better...
On the other hand, perhaps somebody wanted to combat "brain freeze" and went about it the wrong way...
_________________
"If you're using half your concentration to look normal, then you're only half paying attention to whatever else you're doing." - Magneto in "X-Men: First Class" |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cio wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | smoking cannabis can contribute to schizophrenia in some people, but based on my experiance with prozac it seems that could do the same thing to, luckily it only gave me temporary psychosis like symptoms. Cannabis is what i had to use to stay calm enough not to do anything stupid from the prozac effects. Anyways since people are born with autism and don't later develop it I still have a hard time seeing how a vaccine would cause it since usually one has to be born before they can get vaccinations.
Also my immune system seems to be just fine and apparently I have AS and have had all the normal vaccinations. |
Your personal experience doesn't qualify as scientific method and frankly, doesn't help in the question "can you trigger persistent psychological conditions", because you can. Most likely, those who have autism spectrum disorders are born with it. But you say it like it is a proven fact!
IIRC the average age of diagnosis in the US is ~5 years. That's quite a while after the first vaccination. There was a movie from a TED conference (found via this forum) where someone managed to see autism spectrum disorder in babies by mapping eye movement while showing scenes from everyday life (faces/eyes draw less natural attention then objects for those on the spectrum). So I don't disagree. I just can't find decent argumentation in your post.
OT: I guess we all have such animosity towards Autism Speaks, then we would rather believe someone sabotaged the storage of brains "on our behalf" then assume an accident. Still not sure if this is a good thing though, I like scientific insights backed up by statistics.
Also, yes. BRAAAAAAAAAAINS! |
Where did I say my personal experiance does qualify as scientific method?....all I know is prozac had psychotic effects on me, and so that makes me not trust SSRIs. However it is backed by science that any drug can have negative effects, and that individuals can respond differently to the same drug so its not stretching too far to say prozac could also make symptoms worse or contribute to further mental illness.
Also I was under the impression they have found evidence pointing to it being from birth...where is the evidence pointing to it being a condition one develops? I mean the symptoms are apparent pretty much since birth though it is hard to tell what exactly is normal or abnormal behavior for a baby. So I thought it was a proven fact, though environmental and social factors probably also contribute to the symptoms and severity. But the whole point of autism is the brain wiring and neurology is different not that it become different but it just is and thus we develop differently.
But how do you suppose people should defend themselves against the diseases the vaccines are for? if not give them vaccines.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
kate123A
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 461
Location: the twilight zone
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd not call a board certified immunologist a pseudo scientist.
Me and my two children, we're all of us Autistic, have crappy immune systems. Yesterday I got my 4 hour IV and let me just tell you it sucks really bad. My kids need that treatment too.
If you are sick every freaking two weeks you will go to an immunologist and ask them to treat you and guess what they will regardless of whether you are autistic or not.
There may or may not be a connection between Autism and the immune system but most people do not want to feel like roadkill during their lives being sick all the time. Also I strongly think the MMR had something to do with my son's Autism. The immunologist says when my son was vaccinated we were all at risk for contracting the actual Measles virus, which is what happened to me as a toddler. None of us should have been vaccinated with live vaccines, due to our immune systems and especially not son because of his immune system not working and his 13 food allergies. My son was rather sick after and hasn't been the same since.
Honestly though not many people have 13 food allergies and all the problems my kids and I have.
As for how the thing with the brains happened all I can say is somehow I can see somebody thinking something is the AC switch in the winter and it being the coolant system for the brains. |
|
| Back to top |
|
John_Browning
ON A LIST SOMEWHERE
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 4456
Location: The shooting range
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Icheb wrote: | |
I OBJECT TO THAT DEPICTION OF ASDs!!!.....................................................................the social skills area is grossly oversized. 
_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud |
|
| Back to top |
|
aghogday
KATiE MiA
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 4752
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CockneyRebel wrote: | That serves Autism Speaks right. Maybe somebody on the spectrum who works there unplugged the freezers.  |
Two thirds of the thawed brains were associated with other neurological disorders other than Autism, including Parkinson's and Alzheimer’s, and were not associated with Autism Speaks.
One would hope that no individual on the spectrum was associated with a potential criminal act, as well as one of disrespect for all the individuals and families who donated brain tissue from their loved ones, in an attempt to research a cure for other disorders, regardless of how one's personal views at the potential of any disabling symptom associated with autism being prevented or cured through the research associated with the brain tissues samples.
There is no justification for a potential criminal act like this, if it turns out that it was a criminal act, instead of a coincidence of failure of controls. Not likely the anti-cure sentiment, associated with the neurodiversity movement, is taken serious enough where it would actually motivate anyone to commit an actual crime to prevent humanitarian research from proceeding.
There is the potential that this type of research might lead to lives saved or extended among those with a number of different disorders. It is pro-life research that has been harmed by this unfortunate circumstance, accidental or criminal.
If you're serious, perhaps you haven't considered the larger ramifications, beyond your personal expressed concerns, and dislike for autism speaks, if your joking it's not funny. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
