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Longshanks
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15 Jun 2012, 1:34 pm

marshall wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The wording of the post above is indicative of a two-year old in an adult's body. Perhaps the person who needs to grow up the most is visagrunt.

Longshanks


That's the best you can do?

I hadn't thought that my opinion of you could be diminished. Clearly I was mistaken.


See, that's one of the differences between you and I. You let mine and other posts get to you so that it effects your emotions and then you go off on childish rants. In the meantime, I feel nothing. I just see your posts for what they are: childish rants. Being inflamitory about them isn't going to make them anymore childish that what they already are. They speak for themselves.

Longshanks
oh visagrunt he got you. Just go cry in your corner. He sees your posts for what they clearly are. How could you not realize you let emotions get to you, unlike some of the masterdebaters on here


This is the only way conservatives can "win" debates. They simply piss people off with their shallow demagoguery, blatant condescension, and near absence of logic or insight. Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off they get giddy and claim victory. :roll:


The above post by Marshall shows him falling into the same trap as visagrunt. He can't debate anything I say with any othodoxy and he knows it - so, like visagrunt, he has to do the childish Alinskyite act of hurling insults because he has nothing intelligent to argue with - especially because Marshall let's his emotions get to him. Again, the post speaks for itself.

Longshanks


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visagrunt
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15 Jun 2012, 1:49 pm

Longshanks wrote:
See, that's one of the differences between you and I. You let mine and other posts get to you so that it effects your emotions and then you go off on childish rants. In the meantime, I feel nothing. I just see your posts for what they are: childish rants. Being inflamitory about them isn't going to make them anymore childish that what they already are. They speak for themselves.

Longshanks


You presume much. I have no emotional stake in this debate--only a callow fool would take an emotional stake in what gets posted on the internet. You will find me calling out joker for his romanticism in one thread, and agreeing with him in another. I will call out Tequila for anglo-chauvinism in yet another thread, and make common cause with him elsewhere. My postings are rooted in my understanding of fact and of reason. Where they are faulty (and I readily admit that they are as prone to fault as any), those faults lie in my biases and my prejudices.

However, as for childishness, I consider myself to be a voice of somewhat sober moderation in the midst of the political extremism that we see here. I hold some positions firmly, to be sure. But they are few, and I like to believe that they are well reasoned.

But I will let my posting record stand for itself. If you choose to see childishness, so be it. There are opinions here that I value more.


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marshall
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15 Jun 2012, 1:50 pm

Longshanks wrote:
marshall wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The wording of the post above is indicative of a two-year old in an adult's body. Perhaps the person who needs to grow up the most is visagrunt.

Longshanks


That's the best you can do?

I hadn't thought that my opinion of you could be diminished. Clearly I was mistaken.


See, that's one of the differences between you and I. You let mine and other posts get to you so that it effects your emotions and then you go off on childish rants. In the meantime, I feel nothing. I just see your posts for what they are: childish rants. Being inflamitory about them isn't going to make them anymore childish that what they already are. They speak for themselves.

Longshanks
oh visagrunt he got you. Just go cry in your corner. He sees your posts for what they clearly are. How could you not realize you let emotions get to you, unlike some of the masterdebaters on here


This is the only way conservatives can "win" debates. They simply piss people off with their shallow demagoguery, blatant condescension, and near absence of logic or insight. Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off they get giddy and claim victory. :roll:


The above post by Marshall shows him falling into the same trap as visagrunt. He can't debate anything I say with any othodoxy and he knows it - so, like visagrunt, he has to do the childish Alinskyite act of hurling insults because he has nothing intelligent to argue with - especially because Marshall let's his emotions get to him. Again, the post speaks for itself.

Longshanks


Alinsky? Someone's been watching too much Fox News and right-wing radio. :lol: Please don't cry about "libs" using "Alinsky tactics" when the worst offenders are on your side. The hypocrisy is beyond transparent.

As for name calling, pot calling the kettle black much? You already called protesters "nazis", "unionistas", and "thugs". I suppose that doesn't qualify as "childish name calling" to you?

I'll also say that visagrunt is one of the most balanced and mature people on this board. Managing to piss him off is quite an accomplishment. I think you completely missed the fact that he was scolding me as well as you. I'll take the criticism from him.



Raptor
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15 Jun 2012, 7:33 pm

marshall wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The wording of the post above is indicative of a two-year old in an adult's body. Perhaps the person who needs to grow up the most is visagrunt.

Longshanks


That's the best you can do?

I hadn't thought that my opinion of you could be diminished. Clearly I was mistaken.


See, that's one of the differences between you and I. You let mine and other posts get to you so that it effects your emotions and then you go off on childish rants. In the meantime, I feel nothing. I just see your posts for what they are: childish rants. Being inflamitory about them isn't going to make them anymore childish that what they already are. They speak for themselves.

Longshanks
oh visagrunt he got you. Just go cry in your corner. He sees your posts for what they clearly are. How could you not realize you let emotions get to you, unlike some of the masterdebaters on here


This is the only way conservatives can "win" debates. They simply piss people off with their shallow demagoguery, blatant condescension, and near absence of logic or insight. Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off they get giddy and claim victory. :roll:



Demagoguery: YOU are accusing US of being demagogues? It hasnt bee any consservative on this forum beating the drum for perpetual welfare and free healthcare and resorting to personal attacks when someone didn't see things their way.

Blatant condescension: What we are driven to resort to since some people blatantly fail (or refuse) to grasp such simple concepts as role of government and individual responsibilities to name a few........

Absence of logic or insight: We apparently have more logic and insight than you can comprehend or you don't know what it is....

Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off: Yes, the cold light of reality can be tiring, can't it......

......they get giddy and claim victory: Can't very well claim a loss.



Longshanks
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15 Jun 2012, 9:10 pm

marshall wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
marshall wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The wording of the post above is indicative of a two-year old in an adult's body. Perhaps the person who needs to grow up the most is visagrunt.

Longshanks


That's the best you can do?

I hadn't thought that my opinion of you could be diminished. Clearly I was mistaken.


See, that's one of the differences between you and I. You let mine and other posts get to you so that it effects your emotions and then you go off on childish rants. In the meantime, I feel nothing. I just see your posts for what they are: childish rants. Being inflamitory about them isn't going to make them anymore childish that what they already are. They speak for themselves.

Longshanks
oh visagrunt he got you. Just go cry in your corner. He sees your posts for what they clearly are. How could you not realize you let emotions get to you, unlike some of the masterdebaters on here


This is the only way conservatives can "win" debates. They simply piss people off with their shallow demagoguery, blatant condescension, and near absence of logic or insight. Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off they get giddy and claim victory. :roll:


The above post by Marshall shows him falling into the same trap as visagrunt. He can't debate anything I say with any othodoxy and he knows it - so, like visagrunt, he has to do the childish Alinskyite act of hurling insults because he has nothing intelligent to argue with - especially because Marshall let's his emotions get to him. Again, the post speaks for itself.

Longshanks


Alinsky? Someone's been watching too much Fox News and right-wing radio. :lol: Please don't cry about "libs" using "Alinsky tactics" when the worst offenders are on your side. The hypocrisy is beyond transparent.

As for name calling, pot calling the kettle black much? You already called protesters "nazis", "unionistas", and "thugs". I suppose that doesn't qualify as "childish name calling" to you?

I'll also say that visagrunt is one of the most balanced and mature people on this board. Managing to piss him off is quite an accomplishment. I think you completely missed the fact that he was scolding me as well as you. I'll take the criticism from him.


A. I don't watch Fox News. My news sources are Janes Defense Weekly, Janes Intelligence Reporter, the McAlvany Intelligence Report, the Wall Street Journal, The Harvard Journal of Law, and the Air Force Times. They are far more balanced than any of the big-name medias you more than likely watch or read.

B. I call behavior for what it is. You don't like it? Tough.

C. After having had Alinski shoved down my throat in various political science courses in college, I know it when I see it. And yeah, it's childish. Deal with it.

D. History repeats itself when what I see are liberals who are using Nazi-like tactics to force their views down mine and other people's throats. The storming of the capitol building in Wisconsin by public union members was exactly that. It was behavior akin to the Munich Beer Hall Putsch. Again, it is what it is. When on-duty police officers are taken to the hsopital by ambulance in a protest that supposed to be "non-violent", that sends a different message entirely.

E. The only hypocracy I've had to deal with as of late is yours and visagrunt's. You're just throwing a temper tantrum that you have nothing logical to argue against the fact that I've called you on the carpet over it.

In sum, Whatever!

Longshanks


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marshall
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15 Jun 2012, 10:19 pm

Raptor wrote:
Demagoguery: YOU are accusing US of being demagogues? It hasnt bee any consservative on this forum beating the drum for perpetual welfare and free healthcare and resorting to personal attacks when someone didn't see things their way.

Apparently you do not know the meaning of the word demagogue. All this talk of "the tax payers" being pissed off at having to pay for all those public sector "leeches" with their "lavish pensions". Instead of looking at the real causes of the economic mess we're in, you simply blame Obama for everything and make public sector workers a scapegoat because you think they all got a better deal than you. Then you have Longshanks hypocritically about military cutbacks hurting people. Shared sacrifice my ass. The cold hard truth is when the government has to lay people off it hurts the economy. It hurts everyone. You can't have your cake and eat it too. When deep cuts are necessary to balance the budget, slower job growth is simply unavoidable. Just look at what is happening all over Europe.

Quote:
Blatant condescension: What we are driven to resort to since some people blatantly fail (or refuse) to grasp such simple concepts as role of government and individual responsibilities to name a few........

I don't "fail to grasp" anything. I simply have a difference of opinion. Deal with it.

Quote:
Absence of logic or insight: We apparently have more logic and insight than you can comprehend or you don't know what it is....

Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off: Yes, the cold light of reality can be tiring, can't it......

......they get giddy and claim victory: Can't very well claim a loss.


Whatever :roll: :roll:



marshall
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15 Jun 2012, 10:42 pm

Longshanks wrote:
marshall wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
marshall wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The wording of the post above is indicative of a two-year old in an adult's body. Perhaps the person who needs to grow up the most is visagrunt.

Longshanks


That's the best you can do?

I hadn't thought that my opinion of you could be diminished. Clearly I was mistaken.


See, that's one of the differences between you and I. You let mine and other posts get to you so that it effects your emotions and then you go off on childish rants. In the meantime, I feel nothing. I just see your posts for what they are: childish rants. Being inflamitory about them isn't going to make them anymore childish that what they already are. They speak for themselves.

Longshanks
oh visagrunt he got you. Just go cry in your corner. He sees your posts for what they clearly are. How could you not realize you let emotions get to you, unlike some of the masterdebaters on here


This is the only way conservatives can "win" debates. They simply piss people off with their shallow demagoguery, blatant condescension, and near absence of logic or insight. Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off they get giddy and claim victory. :roll:


The above post by Marshall shows him falling into the same trap as visagrunt. He can't debate anything I say with any othodoxy and he knows it - so, like visagrunt, he has to do the childish Alinskyite act of hurling insults because he has nothing intelligent to argue with - especially because Marshall let's his emotions get to him. Again, the post speaks for itself.

Longshanks


Alinsky? Someone's been watching too much Fox News and right-wing radio. :lol: Please don't cry about "libs" using "Alinsky tactics" when the worst offenders are on your side. The hypocrisy is beyond transparent.

As for name calling, pot calling the kettle black much? You already called protesters "nazis", "unionistas", and "thugs". I suppose that doesn't qualify as "childish name calling" to you?

I'll also say that visagrunt is one of the most balanced and mature people on this board. Managing to piss him off is quite an accomplishment. I think you completely missed the fact that he was scolding me as well as you. I'll take the criticism from him.


A. I don't watch Fox News. My news sources are Janes Defense Weekly, Janes Intelligence Reporter, the McAlvany Intelligence Report, the Wall Street Journal, The Harvard Journal of Law, and the Air Force Times. They are far more balanced than any of the big-name medias you more than likely watch or read.

I don't watch big name media.

Quote:
B. I call behavior for what it is. You don't like it? Tough.

In other words, it's only childish name calling when someone else does it. You're Mr. Perfect.

Quote:
C. After having had Alinski shoved down my throat in various political science courses in college, I know it when I see it. And yeah, it's childish. Deal with it.

I didn't know who Saul Alinski was until it became a conservative meme to mention him every time a "liberal" says something you don't like. I see as much so-called "Saul Alinski tactics" coming from the right as from the left.

Quote:
D. History repeats itself when what I see are liberals who are using Nazi-like tactics to force their views down mine and other people's throats. The storming of the capitol building in Wisconsin by public union members was exactly that. It was behavior akin to the Munich Beer Hall Putsch. Again, it is what it is. When on-duty police officers are taken to the hsopital by ambulance in a protest that supposed to be "non-violent", that sends a different message entirely.

I get it, liberals are nazi's and you're the good guys.

Quote:
E. The only hypocracy I've had to deal with as of late is yours and visagrunt's. You're just throwing a temper tantrum that you have nothing logical to argue against the fact that I've called you on the carpet over it.

Why bother when you don't present anything logical to argue against. You simply present your opinions and prejudices as fact.



Last edited by marshall on 16 Jun 2012, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Raptor
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16 Jun 2012, 7:20 am

marshall wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Demagoguery: YOU are accusing US of being demagogues? It hasnt bee any consservative on this forum beating the drum for perpetual welfare and free healthcare and resorting to personal attacks when someone didn't see things their way.

Apparently you do not know the meaning of the word demagogue. All this talk of "the tax payers" being pissed off at having to pay for all those public sector "leeches" with their "lavish pensions". Instead of looking at the real causes of the economic mess we're in, you simply blame Obama for everything and make public sector workers a scapegoat because you think they all got a better deal than you. Then you have Longshanks hypocritically about military cutbacks hurting people. Shared sacrifice my ass. The cold hard truth is when the government has to lay people off it hurts the economy. It hurts everyone. You can't have your cake and eat it too. When deep cuts are necessary to balance the budget, slower job growth is simply unavoidable. Just look at what is happening all over Europe.

Quote:
Blatant condescension: What we are driven to resort to since some people blatantly fail (or refuse) to grasp such simple concepts as role of government and individual responsibilities to name a few........

I don't "fail to grasp" anything. I simply have a difference of opinion. Deal with it.

Quote:
Absence of logic or insight: We apparently have more logic and insight than you can comprehend or you don't know what it is....

Then when someone finally tires of their antics and tells them off: Yes, the cold light of reality can be tiring, can't it......

......they get giddy and claim victory: Can't very well claim a loss.


Whatever :roll: :roll:


Quote:
All this talk of "the tax payers" being pissed off at having to pay for all those public sector "leeches" with their "lavish pensions".

I never said I had an issue with public sector workers or them getting pensions so you must be thinking of someone else. I do not necessarily always follow the party line, not that this is even the party line. I don't blame Obama for everything, either. Obama is just a symptom of a greater national ill. He promised change that didn't even begin to happen so don't be too surprised if the voters turn to someone else this November. Even if they don't I assure you I'll get over four more years of Obama a lot sooner than you'll get over Romney, if you ever get over it.......

Quote:
I don't "fail to grasp" anything. I simply have a difference of opinion. Deal with it.

Gee, if you could just realize that other people also have a difference of opinion we'd be so much further along.......

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:



Raptor
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16 Jun 2012, 7:30 am

Marshall wrote:

Quote:
I get it, liberals are nazi's and you're the good guys.


No, we call you liberals Communists and you call us conservatives Nazis.
Been that way since I can remember.......



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17 Jun 2012, 9:35 pm

Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
I get it, liberals are nazi's and you're the good guys.


No, we call you liberals Communists and you call us conservatives Nazis.
Been that way since I can remember.......


Now, now. That's not allowed here. :shameonyou:



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18 Jun 2012, 10:04 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
I get it, liberals are nazi's and you're the good guys.


No, we call you liberals Communists and you call us conservatives Nazis.
Been that way since I can remember.......


Now, now. That's not allowed here. :shameonyou:


You being allowed here speaks volumes about what's allowed....



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18 Jun 2012, 11:08 am

Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
I get it, liberals are nazi's and you're the good guys.


No, we call you liberals Communists and you call us conservatives Nazis.
Been that way since I can remember.......


Now, now. That's not allowed here. :shameonyou:


You being allowed here speaks volumes about what's allowed....


Actually, American liberals are more akin to being facists - which is socialism with property rights. Any way you look at it, however, facists, communists, socialists, all three groups are extremists and really should be outlawed - especially when you look at the pogroms in Germany, Russia, and China that have resulted in the deaths of millions. History has recorded that and none of them can deny it. Now you just watch! There's going to be some howling in Georgia over this post! But that's okay. Liberals never were very good at acknowledging history and reality.

Longshanks


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18 Jun 2012, 11:51 am

Longshanks wrote:
Actually, American liberals are more akin to being facists - which is socialism with property rights. Any way you look at it, however, facists, communists, socialists, all three groups are extremists and really should be outlawed - especially when you look at the pogroms in Germany, Russia, and China that have resulted in the deaths of millions. History has recorded that and none of them can deny it. Now you just watch! There's going to be some howling in Georgia over this post! But that's okay. Liberals never were very good at acknowledging history and reality.

Longshanks


What precisely would you outlaw? A set of beliefs? A political opinion? What kind of society do you believe you could create by using the law as a tool to suppress political opposition.

To my way of thinking you would create exactly the sort of state that allowed the events that you complain of from Germany, Russia and China. Germany during the Second World War, the Soviet Union and the PRC are all examples where dissenting political views have been outlawed. Perhaps, then, the progroms that resulted in the deaths of millions were not merely a symptom of fascism, marxist-leninism, stalinism or maoism, but were, in fact, a predictable result of a political system that sought to exclude all others.

You see the big difference between my liberalism and your politics (so far as I understand them from your posts) is that I am content to see you live your life in any way that you choose, within the confines of law. If you want to worship as a southern baptist--by all means do so. If you want to believe me sinful and akin to a fascits--by all means do so.

But you, on the other hand, would happily see an environment in which my right to life my life as I see fit could be curtailed by a majority vote.

So who's the fascist now?


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18 Jun 2012, 12:40 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Actually, American liberals are more akin to being facists - which is socialism with property rights. Any way you look at it, however, facists, communists, socialists, all three groups are extremists and really should be outlawed - especially when you look at the pogroms in Germany, Russia, and China that have resulted in the deaths of millions. History has recorded that and none of them can deny it. Now you just watch! There's going to be some howling in Georgia over this post! But that's okay. Liberals never were very good at acknowledging history and reality.

Longshanks


What precisely would you outlaw? A set of beliefs? A political opinion? What kind of society do you believe you could create by using the law as a tool to suppress political opposition.

To my way of thinking you would create exactly the sort of state that allowed the events that you complain of from Germany, Russia and China. Germany during the Second World War, the Soviet Union and the PRC are all examples where dissenting political views have been outlawed. Perhaps, then, the progroms that resulted in the deaths of millions were not merely a symptom of fascism, marxist-leninism, stalinism or maoism, but were, in fact, a predictable result of a political system that sought to exclude all others.

You see the big difference between my liberalism and your politics (so far as I understand them from your posts) is that I am content to see you live your life in any way that you choose, within the confines of law. If you want to worship as a southern baptist--by all means do so. If you want to believe me sinful and akin to a fascits--by all means do so.

But you, on the other hand, would happily see an environment in which my right to life my life as I see fit could be curtailed by a majority vote.

So who's the fascist now?


The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.

Longshanks


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18 Jun 2012, 1:22 pm

Longshanks wrote:

The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.

Longshanks
That is your opinion. I get many emails from my very republican family everyday. You are acting like 50% of the population are completely different than the other (at least that is how it seems to me)


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18 Jun 2012, 2:38 pm

Longshanks wrote:
The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.

Longshanks


No, the howling continues. Minorities have been complaining about majority repression for centuries--this is merely the newest face on an age old problem.

And still, I am left with the question: What, precisely, is being forced down your throat? A viewpoint? Is your intellectual foundation so precarious that you are threatened by a viewpoint?!? I welcome dissent--I think our societies are made richer by the fact that we don't all agree on a single set of values. I would not tolerate a society in which your freedom to worship as a Southern Baptist and your right to call me a sinner was not vigourously protected. But you complain of a viewpoint being shoved down your throat?

Now as for practical impacts of liberalism, I will not deny that liberal administrations seek to put regulations in the workplace, and see a larger role for government in the delivery of certain programs. I respect the view of small-government conservatives, but I cannot agree with it. However, the religious right seeks to regulate in the home and in the bedroom to a degree that is far more offensive, to my way of thinking, than any liberal program that you would seek to complain of.


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--James