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androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3076
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| My IQ points have already been taken from me. Every performance evaluation at work states that my work performance is below average and does not meet the companies standards. Yet collectively my work department has been rated as the highest assistive technology department in the whole nation. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | androbot2084 wrote: | | Also independence is over rated. Independence is a sacred value of a capitalist society. People who are dependent are judged by the capitalists as being worthless. |
No, it's not overrated. Prove you think so by relinquishing your IQ points. I think you're very much like a capitalist. |
You're like the "socialists" from 1984. You keep saying that two and two make five, and expect us to believe you. |
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Tuttle
Not a bird, a turtle.
Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 2592
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I really wish that people on both sides of this argument would realize that high IQ does not make someone not impaired, high IQ does not mean someone has mild autism, and being "high functioning" does not mean having high IQ.
IQ has little to do with autistic people's ability to survive in society without help. We've covered this, regularly. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| thewhitrbbit wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
No one is forcing you to live with autism, there is no cure for it...its a different neurology how do you cure that? Also as far as I know most current autism treatments are more about making the autistic individual appear normal on the outside regardless of what they think or feel about it. At least that is the impression I get.
I also agree autism should not be used as an excuse to be an ass...but I think that kinda goes without saying. I do agree with the notion neurotypicals should be more tolerant towards those who aren't and those who have mental illnesses. I mean I don't know about anyone else but no matter how much I try I can not behave neurotypically because well i am not that way. Also I think its more that for some with autism functioning on a job in the 'real world' is an issue.....there are pleanty who do want normal jobs but simply cannot function well enough there are some who might not want a normal job and a normal life even if they could function in that setting. As for acting out are we talking intentional acting out our sensory and/or stress overload and not being able to control it 24/7?
Also I find myself rather unhappy and rather suicidal, but curing me of my autism or treatments to make me 'act normal' isn't going to make me feel any better......I mean part of the reason I'm unhappy is because there is nothing appealing about the current society, even if I could function in it. It would be nice if I had a savant skill that happened to be playing guitar in a metal or rock band, but no such luck. |
Maybe you would have a different view of society if seen through a different lens? I often wonder what the world looks like through an NT's eyes. |
I am not so sure I would want a different view on society.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| androbot2084 wrote: | | If you could travel 100 years into the future, the neurotypical would see the world the same way that I see it. |
That wouldn't exactly be better, I would hope if we did happen to have an autistic society....we would not be intolerant of neurotypicals over all, that would just be the same problem in reverse according to your own logic.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Tuttle wrote: | I really wish that people on both sides of this argument would realize that high IQ does not make someone not impaired, high IQ does not mean someone has mild autism, and being "high functioning" does not mean having high IQ.
IQ has little to do with autistic people's ability to survive in society without help. We've covered this, regularly. |
...Tuttle, stop making sense. The Party doesn't like it when people make sense.
But in all seriousness, agreed.
Also, Sweetleaf in the comment I'm assuming is directly above me still, agreed. It's a form of racism, if you really think about it. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Environments that don't tell them they are 'wrong' for being autistic and thus behaving in an autistic manner and with supportive people who care about them and their well being, not who just want them changed or cured so they won't be such a 'nuisance.' Also I am sorry you don't know what neurotypical behavior is but I am sure you could look it up starting with a google search, there is not an exact single definition of it but its basically behavior that is considered that of someone with a neurotypical brain. |
None of that is going to make up for not knowing how to do things right. It's unhelpful for one's ego and dignity to have to depend on others and be cared for by them. Being cared for isn't enough. Many would like to have independent lives of their own outside of the home and not with caregivers.
There is only one right way to do things? that's interesting...not sure I agree. Also if one has to depend on others to care for them then they at least shouldn't be put down for it. I am not opposed to helping low functioning people to improve their functioning but the goal should be improvement of their life...not in the name of making them more 'normal.' to make things easier for everyone else.
Who says the ones who want independent lives and to depend more on themselves cannot work to learn skills to help them with that? that's not a cure that is just general self betterment which I never suggested is a bad thing.
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hell I might even suggest society is changed some to accommodate those with disorders like autism, kind of like they do for people in wheel-chairs and virtually any other physical ailment. |
It's way too different from physical disabilities. You can't really accommodate all of it. |
Maybe not but improvements could certainly be made...its sad that those with mental illnesses and disorders are expect to just suck it up and function in society...when its probably better to have a society that is not so intolerant towards such people, and then maybe they would function better. I am still of the opinion society is sick.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: | | Tuttle wrote: | I really wish that people on both sides of this argument would realize that high IQ does not make someone not impaired, high IQ does not mean someone has mild autism, and being "high functioning" does not mean having high IQ.
IQ has little to do with autistic people's ability to survive in society without help. We've covered this, regularly. |
...Tuttle, stop making sense. The Party doesn't like it when people make sense.
But in all seriousness, agreed.
Also, Sweetleaf in the comment I'm assuming is directly above me still, agreed. It's a form of racism, if you really think about it. |
Well not really considering neurology has nothing to do with race really, it would be a type of discrimination and/or prejudice which racism also falls under.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Well not really considering neurology has nothing to do with race really, it would be a type of discrimination and/or prejudice which racism also falls under. |
I say racism because there is a physical difference, a culture, and [most likely] a genetic component; but I suppose given the connotation it's a poor choice of words.
We should just make up more words so that there's no connotation tagged on. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Well not really considering neurology has nothing to do with race really, it would be a type of discrimination and/or prejudice which racism also falls under. |
I say racism because there is a physical difference, a culture, and [most likely] a genetic component; but I suppose given the connotation it's a poor choice of words.
We should just make up more words so that there's no connotation tagged on. |
But it is not a race, racism indicates hating someone for their race. Also what do you mean there is a culture, I was not aware there was a culture to having a mental disorder. I mean I don't really feel like I share a general culture with others with aspergers, just have the same disorder.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | LennytheWicked wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Well not really considering neurology has nothing to do with race really, it would be a type of discrimination and/or prejudice which racism also falls under. |
I say racism because there is a physical difference, a culture, and [most likely] a genetic component; but I suppose given the connotation it's a poor choice of words.
We should just make up more words so that there's no connotation tagged on. |
But it is not a race, racism indicates hating someone for their race. Also what do you mean there is a culture, I was not aware there was a culture to having a mental disorder. I mean I don't really feel like I share a general culture with others with aspergers, just have the same disorder. |
Well, what I meant is...
I'm not sure how to explain it much more without getting really off topic. Basically, I liken lots of things to ethnicity. Not everyone in an ethnic group shares a culture either. But I understand that it's a weird way to group people, so I'll drop it and chalk this up to you. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: | | dalurker wrote: | | androbot2084 wrote: | | Also independence is over rated. Independence is a sacred value of a capitalist society. People who are dependent are judged by the capitalists as being worthless. |
No, it's not overrated. Prove you think so by relinquishing your IQ points. I think you're very much like a capitalist. |
You're like the "socialists" from 1984. You keep saying that two and two make five, and expect us to believe you. |
I'm sighing again cause of those who are obsessed with that book, who don't realize they're being manipulated by pessimism. If I'm that, then what are you? I've made so many points over and over, and have only seen "rebuttals" that are meaningless, off point, and nearly random. Like nothing I've said can be refuted, so I see no other reason for the weird responses. |
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Quantum_Immortal
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
Age: 30
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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i think our case is unique.
Whats the meaning of our social problems?
in my opinion, we are at the early stages of sympatric speciation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympatric_speciation
The true meaning of our social problems, its that evolution is trying to split a new human species.
Autism speaks, and the likes, are just sympatric speciation.
_________________
just a mad scientist. I'm the founder of:
the church of the super quantum immortal.
http://thechurchofthequantumimmortal.blogspot.be/ |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
There is only one right way to do things? that's interesting...not sure I agree. Also if one has to depend on others to care for them then they at least shouldn't be put down for it. I am not opposed to helping low functioning people to improve their functioning but the goal should be improvement of their life...not in the name of making them more 'normal.' to make things easier for everyone else.
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You're not acknowledging much of what I'm saying. You keep saying the word normal. I haven't brought it up once. You're focusing on the ideas and perceptions of those around them. That's not the point. Increases in functioning are improvements in life.
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Who says the ones who want independent lives and to depend more on themselves cannot work to learn skills to help them with that? that's not a cure that is just general self betterment which I never suggested is a bad thing. |
We're talking of developmental disorders. They can't be worked out of. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
There is only one right way to do things? that's interesting...not sure I agree. Also if one has to depend on others to care for them then they at least shouldn't be put down for it. I am not opposed to helping low functioning people to improve their functioning but the goal should be improvement of their life...not in the name of making them more 'normal.' to make things easier for everyone else.
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You're not acknowledging much of what I'm saying. You keep saying the word normal. I haven't brought it up once. You're focusing on the ideas and perceptions of those around them. That's not the point. Increases in functioning are improvements in life.
Not sure else how to word it, also I realize that point...but at some point sometimes its better to let someone be them then try and force some unnatural way of being upon them. Yes increased functioning is good, but pushing too hard can be just as detrimental as doing nothing.
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Who says the ones who want independent lives and to depend more on themselves cannot work to learn skills to help them with that? that's not a cure that is just general self betterment which I never suggested is a bad thing. |
We're talking of developmental disorders. They can't be worked out of. |
No functioning can be improved, no one has been totally rid of their autism...people have just learned to better function with it, but some people can only 'improve' so much and they should have the right to pick their battles not be forced into fighting every one. I mean I feel like I probably would not have graduated highschool if the focus was on trying to get me to interact normally, make eye contact ect...I think I am glad to have put more effort into reading, writing and well the interesting school work.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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