Kraichgauer
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Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: Re: For Christians - Is the world going to hell? |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | Robdemanc wrote: | There is an excess of averice, and it has got us into this economic mess that is causing misery.
There is a lot of gluttony because westerners are always over eating. The west consumes most of the world, and a lot of it is wasted.
There is a lot of pride and people think is a virtue!
There is a lot of anger brewing which is stoked by fear and the grim recognition that our greed is our undoing. Everyone blames each other.
There is a lot of lust - young people are conditioned with lust in pop videos, and the media sells everything via lust
There is a lot of envy - our economic system promotes envious people who are always trying to do better than the next man
There is a lot of sloth - everything has been made so easy for us that we need do next to nothing to survive. Even the rich are lazy because they make more and more money by doing less and less. The hard working are never rewarded.
How does it feel for Christians to see a world like this? Or do you see it this way at all? |
I'm going to address one point at a time. There's a lot here.
1st Point: The Bible warned us of this as a warning sign of the end times. In fact, Jesus, the prophet Daniel, and the Apostle John in Revelation all spoke of this. See Daniel 9, 11, 12, Matthew 24:4-31, Revelation 13.
2nd Point: China is now the world's biggest consumer, and will be one of the forces at Armegeddon - Greek for Har Megido - Hebrew for the Valley of Megido in Israel - the perfect place for a battlefield.
3d Point: Are you surprised? Pride was the first sin ever committed, and it was committed by Satan. See Is. 14:12-17.
4th, 5th, and 6th Point: True. But it was also prophesied. Am I surprised? Not in the slightest. I am concerned though, that it's spread is more rampant than I could have originally foreseen.
How do I feel about it as a Christian? Answer: Both sad and glad. I shall explain. Sad because it means that there are a lot of people out there who will eventually get the "short end of the stick". Glad because the end times are approaching. I love my wife. I love my work. But my beloved soulmate and I both long to be with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And we want this struggle with Satan to end - once and for all.
You see, mankind was intended as a replacement for Satan. When Satan rebelled, he was originally known as Lucifer and was the archangel. Lucifer than became Satan (Hebrew for "Accuser") and was cast from heaven - though now even though he is not allowed to remain - he can approach God the Father from time to time. One of Satan's original dominions was that "Garden of God" known as Earth. Satan's septer was taken from him and given to man. When Adam and Eve sinned against God, they were the total population of all humanity - this all of mankind sinned. Man gave satan his septer. This is why we have all inherited a "sin nature". We are all born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1). We are all slaves to sin. We all sin daily. (Romans 3:23). And as a result, it is appointed that man shall live once and then face eternal judgement (Hebrews 9:27). Now, on the other side of the canyon, if you will, we have God, who, through his son, Jesus Christ, promises eternal life, no judgment, and to pass through death and into life (John 5:24). But how is that done? Some say good works. This is not the case, for all works fall short of the glory of God (Ephesians 2:8-9). So how then are we saved? We are saved because Jesus the Christ, who never sinned, died in our place (as well all deserve to die and be sent to hell (or sheol, if you will), and was our perfect substitute - our propitiation. Thus, as stated in 1 Corinthians 15:3-5, Christ was put to death at the hands of gentiles as prophesied in the Old Testament, was buried, arose again, as fortold in the Old Testament, and appeared before all of the Apostles. You are saved by grace through faith and not of works of which we all may boast. (Ehpesians 2:8-9).
I am a military reserve officer and a law student. I've also been a tax accountant. I was raised an athiest and wasn't saved until I was 30. I went to seminary for year before 9/11 occured, and I discovered that I just don't have the personality to be a pastor. But my faith is still strong. It has not weakend. It will never weaken - thanks be to God.
But what you see will be many times worse as time goes on. Will Earth become hell? No. Not nearly as bad as what hell may offer. Jesus vivdly described hell to the apostles and it is recorded in the Bible. But even hell will become much worse when that whole place is cast into the Lake of Fire. Imagine searing eternally in white - hot flames - with no rest - ever.
Satan is still loose. See Job 1: 6-7, as well as Jude, Verse 9, when Satan argued over the dead body of Moses. Satan was judged at the cross, and his sentence has yet to be carried out. That too will happen. But I contend that had we ever seen the Lake of Fire for ourselves, we'd probably ask God to go easy on him.
The next prophesy you want to watch out for is the Russian-led invasion is Israel. (Ezekiel 38-39).
I don't want to appear as if I'm pushing my faith on anyone. But if you have any interest in having an actual relationship with God, and knowing more about how you too can be saved, by all means PM me, and I will answer.
Longshanks |
I'm a Lutheran, so I'm an amillennialist - that is, we don't have doctrines based on Revelations (a book which both Luther and Calvin doubted was divinely inspired), and thus, no Apocalypse, or rapture. The thousand year reign of Christ, we believe, is the indeterminate period between Christs resurrection and ascension, and his return - or in other words, the here and now. We believe Christ's Kingdom is the church - not any specific denomination, but the invisible church, which is all true believers united in the spirit of Christ. We tend to interpret what evangelicals take so literally as end time prophecy as things that have largely already occurred. So from a Lutheran - or otherwise Mainline Protestant - perspective, our advice would be not to hold your breath concerning all that end time stuff.
And in closing, my Pastor had mentioned how his mother used to always complain how things were worst than ever, and how kids behaved so badly. Finally, he asked his dad if what his mother was saying was at all true, his father conceded: no, people always acted badly, but may have just been less open about it back in the good old days.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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DC
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 16, 2011
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: |
How have Catholics ruined the education system? |
By making buggery of minors a compulsory part of the curriculum in Ireland? |
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Longshanks
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 513
Location: At an undisclosed airbase at Shangri-la
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: Re: For Christians - Is the world going to hell? |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | Longshanks wrote: | | Robdemanc wrote: | There is an excess of averice, and it has got us into this economic mess that is causing misery.
There is a lot of gluttony because westerners are always over eating. The west consumes most of the world, and a lot of it is wasted.
There is a lot of pride and people think is a virtue!
There is a lot of anger brewing which is stoked by fear and the grim recognition that our greed is our undoing. Everyone blames each other.
There is a lot of lust - young people are conditioned with lust in pop videos, and the media sells everything via lust
There is a lot of envy - our economic system promotes envious people who are always trying to do better than the next man
There is a lot of sloth - everything has been made so easy for us that we need do next to nothing to survive. Even the rich are lazy because they make more and more money by doing less and less. The hard working are never rewarded.
How does it feel for Christians to see a world like this? Or do you see it this way at all? |
I'm going to address one point at a time. There's a lot here.
1st Point: The Bible warned us of this as a warning sign of the end times. In fact, Jesus, the prophet Daniel, and the Apostle John in Revelation all spoke of this. See Daniel 9, 11, 12, Matthew 24:4-31, Revelation 13.
2nd Point: China is now the world's biggest consumer, and will be one of the forces at Armegeddon - Greek for Har Megido - Hebrew for the Valley of Megido in Israel - the perfect place for a battlefield.
3d Point: Are you surprised? Pride was the first sin ever committed, and it was committed by Satan. See Is. 14:12-17.
4th, 5th, and 6th Point: True. But it was also prophesied. Am I surprised? Not in the slightest. I am concerned though, that it's spread is more rampant than I could have originally foreseen.
How do I feel about it as a Christian? Answer: Both sad and glad. I shall explain. Sad because it means that there are a lot of people out there who will eventually get the "short end of the stick". Glad because the end times are approaching. I love my wife. I love my work. But my beloved soulmate and I both long to be with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And we want this struggle with Satan to end - once and for all.
You see, mankind was intended as a replacement for Satan. When Satan rebelled, he was originally known as Lucifer and was the archangel. Lucifer than became Satan (Hebrew for "Accuser") and was cast from heaven - though now even though he is not allowed to remain - he can approach God the Father from time to time. One of Satan's original dominions was that "Garden of God" known as Earth. Satan's septer was taken from him and given to man. When Adam and Eve sinned against God, they were the total population of all humanity - this all of mankind sinned. Man gave satan his septer. This is why we have all inherited a "sin nature". We are all born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1). We are all slaves to sin. We all sin daily. (Romans 3:23). And as a result, it is appointed that man shall live once and then face eternal judgement (Hebrews 9:27). Now, on the other side of the canyon, if you will, we have God, who, through his son, Jesus Christ, promises eternal life, no judgment, and to pass through death and into life (John 5:24). But how is that done? Some say good works. This is not the case, for all works fall short of the glory of God (Ephesians 2:8-9). So how then are we saved? We are saved because Jesus the Christ, who never sinned, died in our place (as well all deserve to die and be sent to hell (or sheol, if you will), and was our perfect substitute - our propitiation. Thus, as stated in 1 Corinthians 15:3-5, Christ was put to death at the hands of gentiles as prophesied in the Old Testament, was buried, arose again, as fortold in the Old Testament, and appeared before all of the Apostles. You are saved by grace through faith and not of works of which we all may boast. (Ehpesians 2:8-9).
I am a military reserve officer and a law student. I've also been a tax accountant. I was raised an athiest and wasn't saved until I was 30. I went to seminary for year before 9/11 occured, and I discovered that I just don't have the personality to be a pastor. But my faith is still strong. It has not weakend. It will never weaken - thanks be to God.
But what you see will be many times worse as time goes on. Will Earth become hell? No. Not nearly as bad as what hell may offer. Jesus vivdly described hell to the apostles and it is recorded in the Bible. But even hell will become much worse when that whole place is cast into the Lake of Fire. Imagine searing eternally in white - hot flames - with no rest - ever.
Satan is still loose. See Job 1: 6-7, as well as Jude, Verse 9, when Satan argued over the dead body of Moses. Satan was judged at the cross, and his sentence has yet to be carried out. That too will happen. But I contend that had we ever seen the Lake of Fire for ourselves, we'd probably ask God to go easy on him.
The next prophesy you want to watch out for is the Russian-led invasion is Israel. (Ezekiel 38-39).
I don't want to appear as if I'm pushing my faith on anyone. But if you have any interest in having an actual relationship with God, and knowing more about how you too can be saved, by all means PM me, and I will answer.
Longshanks |
I'm a Lutheran, so I'm an amillennialist - that is, we don't have doctrines based on Revelations (a book which both Luther and Calvin doubted was divinely inspired), and thus, no Apocalypse, or rapture. The thousand year reign of Christ, we believe, is the indeterminate period between Christs resurrection and ascension, and his return - or in other words, the here and now. We believe Christ's Kingdom is the church - not any specific denomination, but the invisible church, which is all true believers united in the spirit of Christ. We tend to interpret what evangelicals take so literally as end time prophecy as things that have largely already occurred. So from a Lutheran - or otherwise Mainline Protestant - perspective, our advice would be not to hold your breath concerning all that end time stuff.
And in closing, my Pastor had mentioned how his mother used to always complain how things were worst than ever, and how kids behaved so badly. Finally, he asked his dad if what his mother was saying was at all true, his father conceded: no, people always acted badly, but may have just been less open about it back in the good old days.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Very good, Kraichgauer - you got something half-right. You are correct about Luther. You are incorrect about Calvin. Calvin did state in his writings that Revelation was divinely inspired and thus canonical. Calvin just didn't write a full commentary on it. Lutherans, I don't believe, understand as much about Calvin as they like to think they do. While my parents were athiests, my great uncles and a number of maternal ancestors were Lutheran Pastors - all in what is now the Missouri Synod. One was 1st Vice President at one time. He would get very lively when I would defend Calvin, and especially so when I used actual bible passages. To my knowledge Luther and Calvin had 2 major differences. The first was the difference between sacraments and ordinances. The second was the fifth of Calvin's five points: Calvin stated that Christ died only for the elect. Luther maintained that Christ died for the world. My belief is this: Calvin was right on the issue of Sacrament vs Ordinance while Luther was right on who Christ died for, making me a 4-Point Calvinist. Of the two, I believe Calvin to be more grace centered, but I'm sure you have the same thoughts about Luther. Technically, I believe Luther to have been a 4-Point Calvinist after having read his unabridged works - he was required reading in the seminary I attended - as were Wesley, Hus, and Arminius.
Lutherans, from what I've seen, also tend to be more Arminian in their biblical outlook - I am of course refering to the arguments made by Jacob Arminius. Jacob and I part company on a number of issues.
Food for thought.
Longshanks
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Kraichgauer
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Age: 47
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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You sure about Calvin defending Revelations as a truly inspired book? I recall reading of how he described the book as blasphemous.
And actually, Lutherans are not closer to Arminians. Whereas Arminians believe Christians can cooperate in their own salvation, we believe that it's entirely in God's hands. That is, we can not accept the grace won for us by Christ - as it's in our flawed human nature to reject it - but that it's given to us entirely by the Holy Spirit by means of the written and spoken Word, and by the sacraments of the Eucharist and the Lord's Supper. Even the inkling to want to find God is entirely the work of God.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Longshanks
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Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 513
Location: At an undisclosed airbase at Shangri-la
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | You sure about Calvin defending Revelations as a truly inspired book? I recall reading of how he described the book as blasphemous.
And actually, Lutherans are not closer to Arminians. Whereas Arminians believe Christians can cooperate in their own salvation, we believe that it's entirely in God's hands. That is, we can not accept the grace won for us by Christ - as it's in our flawed human nature to reject it - but that it's given to us entirely by the Holy Spirit by means of the written and spoken Word, and by the sacraments of the Eucharist and the Lord's Supper. Even the inkling to want to find God is entirely the work of God.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
I've read Calvin - I'm a Baptist. Calvin had no problem with Revelation. It was the Apocrypha he had issues with. Can't say I don't understand that one. There are a lot of questionble statements in the Apocrypha (i.e. Nebedcednezzar being king of the Assyrians when in fact he was king of the Babalonians). I may be wrong concerning Lutheranism, but Arminius also argued that it is possible to lose your salvation. I have heard many Lutheran pastors argue the same. To a Calvinist, once saved - always saved. But the rest of your thesis of Lutheranism is as I've been brought to understand it.
Longshanks
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | You sure about Calvin defending Revelations as a truly inspired book? I recall reading of how he described the book as blasphemous.
And actually, Lutherans are not closer to Arminians. Whereas Arminians believe Christians can cooperate in their own salvation, we believe that it's entirely in God's hands. That is, we can not accept the grace won for us by Christ - as it's in our flawed human nature to reject it - but that it's given to us entirely by the Holy Spirit by means of the written and spoken Word, and by the sacraments of the Eucharist and the Lord's Supper. Even the inkling to want to find God is entirely the work of God.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
I've read Calvin - I'm a Baptist. Calvin had no problem with Revelation. It was the Apocrypha he had issues with. Can't say I don't understand that one. There are a lot of questionble statements in the Apocrypha (i.e. Nebedcednezzar being king of the Assyrians when in fact he was king of the Babalonians). I may be wrong concerning Lutheranism, but Arminius also argued that it is possible to lose your salvation. I have heard many Lutheran pastors argue the same. To a Calvinist, once saved - always saved. But the rest of your thesis of Lutheranism is as I've been brought to understand it.
Longshanks |
You are correct that we Lutherans, like Arminians, see grace as resistible. But their belief in human participation in grace separates them from us.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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AspieOtaku
Leader of the Otaku Legion
Joined: Feb 18, 2012
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Location: Mountain View, California, United States
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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That would be funny if hell was a mixture between Sanfrancisco amsterdam and Las Vegas in the afterlife. 
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Longshanks
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Posts: 513
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieOtaku wrote: | | That would be funny if hell was a mixture between Sanfrancisco amsterdam and Las Vegas in the afterlife. |
That would be hell and there's no pun intended.
Longshanks
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lostonearth35
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think only the American part of it is, since it's the only part of the world that matters.  |
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Lord_Gareth
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | AspieOtaku wrote: | | That would be funny if hell was a mixture between Sanfrancisco amsterdam and Las Vegas in the afterlife. |
That would be hell and there's no pun intended.
Longshanks |
Clearly you hate fun.
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ArrantPariah
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieOtaku wrote: | | That would be funny if hell was a mixture between Sanfrancisco amsterdam and Las Vegas in the afterlife. |
Let's add the aptly named Bangkok, shall we? |
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Vigilans
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | AspieOtaku wrote: | | That would be funny if hell was a mixture between Sanfrancisco amsterdam and Las Vegas in the afterlife. |
That would be hell and there's no pun intended.
Longshanks |
What? All the stoned gay Dutch people flaunting their gay gayness gaily? Or discovering everything you have ever believed is a lie and as an immortal you can't even end your life to escape?
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androbot2084
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Christians point out sins which will be our downfall but never criticize our economic system based on capitalism. A social gospel is never preached. |
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johansen
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Age: 24
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord_Gareth wrote: | | Longshanks wrote: | | AspieOtaku wrote: | | That would be funny if hell was a mixture between Sanfrancisco amsterdam and Las Vegas in the afterlife. |
That would be hell and there's no pun intended.
Longshanks |
Clearly you hate fun. |
no, clearly you do not understand what the purpose of life is.
you might need to pick up a Bible and start reading. |
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ArrantPariah
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Posts: 4806
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: For Christians - Is the world going to hell? |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | ArrantPariah wrote: | | Longshanks wrote: | I'm going to address one point at a time. There's a lot here.
....
3d Point: Are you surprised? Pride was the first sin ever committed, and it was committed by Satan. See Is. 14:12-17.
....
Longshanks |
Brilliant satire, Sir! Thou art in fine form tonight.  |
You read those passeges - you'll find out this is far from satire!
Longshanks |
Either thou art pulling our legs, or thou art consumed with silliness.
| Isaiah 14 wrote: |
14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
14:28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
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The passage has nothing at all to do with Satan. Isaiah 14:12 is the only verse in the bible that mentions Lucifer. There is no biblical justification for considering Lucifer to be Satan. In this verse "Lucifer" refers to the king of Babylon (Nebuchadrezzar) and Lucifer (the light bearer) is also called the "son of the morning" or morning star.
| Quote: |
Isaiah here promises that the Israelites will be freed from their Babylonian captivity and will then be able to use in a taunting song against their oppressor the image of the Morning Star, which rises at dawn as the brightest of the stars, outshining Jupiter and Saturn, but lasting only until the sun appears. This image was used in an old popular Canaanite story that the Morning Star tried to rise high above the clouds and establish himself on the mountain where the gods assembled, in the far north, but was cast down into the underworld.
The phrase "O star of the morning, son of the dawn" in verse 12 translates the Hebrew הילל בן־שׁחר Helel Ben-Shachar. As the Latin poets personified the Morning Star and the Dawn (Aurora), as well as the Sun and the Moon and other heavenly bodies, so in Canaanite mythology Morning Star and Dawn were pictured as two deities, the former being the son of the latter. |
Here is the Good News version of Isaiah 14
| Good News Version wrote: |
Isaiah 14
The Return from Exile
1 The Lord will once again be merciful to his people Israel and choose them as his own. He will let them live in their own land again, and foreigners will come and live there with them.2 Many nations will help the people of Israel return to the land which the Lord gave them, and there the nations will serve Israel as slaves. Those who once captured Israel will now be captured by Israel, and the people of Israel will rule over those who once oppressed them.
The King of Babylon in the World of the Dead
3 The Lord will give the people of Israel relief from their pain and suffering and from the hard work they were forced to do.4 When he does this, they are to mock the king of Babylon and say:
The cruel king has fallen! He will never oppress anyone again!5 The Lord has ended the power of the evil rulers6 who angrily oppressed the peoples and never stopped persecuting the nations they had conquered.7 Now at last the whole world enjoys rest and peace, and everyone sings for joy.8 The cypress trees and the cedars of Lebanon rejoice over the fallen king, because there is no one to cut them down, now that he is gone!
9 The world of the dead is getting ready to welcome the king of Babylon. The ghosts of those who were powerful on earth are stirring about. The ghosts of kings are rising from their thrones.10 They all call out to him,
Now you are as weak as we are! You are one of us!11 You used to be honored with the music of harps, but now here you are in the world of the dead. You lie on a bed of maggots and are covered with a blanket of worms.
12 King of Babylon, bright morning star, you have fallen from heaven! In the past you conquered nations, but now you have been thrown to the ground.13 You were determined to climb up to heaven and to place your throne above the highest stars. You thought you would sit like a king on that mountain in the north where the gods assemble.14 You said you would climb to the tops of the clouds and be like the Almighty.15 But instead, you have been brought down to the deepest part of the world of the dead.
16 The dead will stare and gape at you. They will ask,
Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble?17 Is this the man who destroyed cities and turned the world into a desert? Is this the man who never freed his prisoners or let them go home?
18 All the kings of the earth lie in their magnificent tombs,19 but you have no tomb, and your corpse is thrown out to rot. It is covered by the bodies of soldiers killed in battle, thrown with them into a rocky pit, and trampled down.20 Because you ruined your country and killed your own people, you will not be buried like other kings. None of your evil family will survive.21 Let the slaughter begin! The sons of this king will die because of their ancestors' sins. None of them will ever rule the earth or cover it with cities.
God Will Destroy Babylon
22 The Lord Almighty says,
I will attack Babylon and bring it to ruin. I will leave nothing—no children, no survivors at all. I, the Lord, have spoken.23 I will turn Babylon into a marsh, and owls will live there. I will sweep Babylon with a broom that will sweep everything away. I, the Lord Almighty, have spoken.
God Will Destroy the Assyrians
24 The Lord Almighty has sworn an oath:
What I have planned will happen. What I have determined to do will be done.25 I will destroy the Assyrians in my land of Israel and trample them on my mountains. I will free my people from the Assyrian yoke and from the burdens they have had to bear.26 This is my plan for the world, and my arm is stretched out to punish the nations.
27 The Lord Almighty is determined to do this; he has stretched out his arm to punish, and no one can stop him.
God Will Destroy the Philistines
28 This is a message that was proclaimed in the year that King Ahaz died.
29 People of Philistia, the rod that beat you is broken, but you have no reason to be glad. When one snake dies, a worse one comes in its place. A snake's egg hatches a flying dragon.30 The Lord will be a shepherd to the poor of his people and will let them live in safety. But he will send a terrible famine on you Philistines, and it will not leave any of you alive.
31 Howl and cry for help, all you Philistine cities! Be terrified, all of you! A cloud of dust is coming from the north—it is an army with no cowards in its ranks.
32 How shall we answer the messengers that come to us from Philistia? We will tell them that the Lord has established Zion and that his suffering people will find safety there.
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This translation makes it clearer that Isaiah is talking about the King of Babylon, and NOT Satan. And, while the King of Babylon was indeed proud, there is nothing to indicate that this pride was a "sin", nor that this is the first time that the concept of sin entered the world.
So, congratulations on your brilliant satire! |
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