Easier being friends with males than females.

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I think it's quite dependent. I know I only get along with people really well - male or female - if they have stepped out of the sexist ideals first.
Otherwise the probablity is that I am not going to get along with them, or at least never be close to them. For that reason I have equal numbers of friends who are male and female.
But then when you get to the acquaintneces, suddenly 75% of them are men. Interestingly I was bullied by women growing up, but not by men. I blieve those reflect how sexism works in society more than it does men or women.

Don't forget that many people still subscribe to sexism, even subconsciously and judge others by it accordingly. The fact is that most people still do, whether they want to or not.
I think the women being talked about in this thread are simply reinenforcing sexism in their own way - while many in this thread are reinforcing sexism as well, only in a different way.
Both are simply reinforcing sexism in a way that suits them the most.

As long as people in general continue to enforce sexism, I am not going to fit in. And under the circumstances, I don't think that it is an entirely bad thing.

Never heard of him but sounds like a really cool guy, so awesome he wrote back! I'll look that youtube-clip up asap.

I must say I'm thrilled with this thread and the responses and the discussion that opened up, I was bracing myself because people can be (understandably) defensive and I don't really take it easy on people if I care about something a lot.

Kjas, I hope you weren't referring to me when you said we in this thread also reinforced sexism? I consider myself enlightened, but I know there's always more to learn. Even if you didn't mean me I'll expand on what I said.
When I said there's different things being taught, I meant by society, media and the patriarchy as a whole. I didn't mean every woman subscribes to it, or are all emerged in/care what the media says etc, but it is very pervasive.
Or that liking all the things we "should" like is bad, BUT I do think those that do should do some critical thinking around it if they don't already (everyone should), not to come to the conclusion they don't "really" like it, because of course many do (and many men too!), but just look at the attitudes around it, and don't push it on people or police/harass/judge those that don't.
It's just people with privilege (the little privilege a woman has in this kyriarchy) should really do some thinking around it.

I find it ironic that even women in this thread are being hard on other women in this thread about misogyny as if women who have mostly male friends are sexist - I hope I got that right, it seems to be the underlying message. Well in my opinion women are harder on each other than men are on themselves or else we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Why not let go of any expectations and just let people be people. Isn't that what defying stereotypes is all about?

I don't want to fight, because I know you all have some strong opinions about this, and I do agree that critical thinking is required when we talk about gender norms and stereotypes. But I thought that anti-discrimination was all about accepting people as they are, like how people like different flavours of ice cream. Does it really matter which sex are someone's friends and acquaintances? Shouldn't we all just look past the sex and look at the person underneath? Just a thought.

I'm not being hard on anyone about it - I understand exactly how difficult it can be, especially where I grew up.

I"m not saying specific members are or aren't - that is for them to decide. But certainly a lot of the justifications they have given for it are, as I was focusing on those justifications and exaiming them, not blaming anyone.

I am in full support of looking at exactly who people are.

But like some here have recently discovered - you can be sexist without ever meaning to be. Much of it is subconscious. And when it is, they experience an enormous amount of cognitive dissonance. That cognitive dissonance is most obvious when you look at someone's reasoning or justification process.

Okay - well I'm not really saying that about you really.

Well sometimes you don't get the full story when it comes to justifications. I just really don't see what the problem is with women expressing their experiences here without being analyzed or attacked. It makes me feel really unsafe and like I have to be a certain way or in a weird reverse-sexism ideology, which to me defeats the point of feminism. I thought feminism was all about choices, not constraints on words and actions. I think this kind of talking divides women instead of bringing them together. Oh well, maybe I am the only one who feels this way. Maybe I should just avoid gender topics here... That seems like a good idea.

Accepting sexism isn't tolerance. Some people are going to be really uncomfortable having a conversation about it when the conversation becomes about the extent to which sexism influences us as individuals. It's really easy to take about other people's sexism, but if you can't confront it in yourself, it really isn't possible to to effectively confront it in society.

I want to have this conversation because I'm trying to change how I allow myself to look at other people.

*shrug*
I'm not a feminist.

Perhaps you should start s seperate topic for those meems so those who are interesting in discussing this can without derailing the original point of the the thread.

deltafunction, have you completely missed the "omg women play sooo much games and women do this and that and all of it's negative" undertone (and many outright said it) that already existed? You were comfortable with that but not a talk about how that happened? I find it interesting. It wasn't just "oh, you know I work in the tech-industry and it's mostly men there". And if you think everyone should just see "the person and not the gender", why are you defending talking smack about women and praising only men as *the best friends ever*?

It makes me feel really unsafe when women talk about how women are impossible to be friends with.



ETA: Getting sick of this and deltafunction said she "didn't want to fight" so. Whatever. Post deleted.

Then don't go on a thread where women share these experiences? I don't know it seems a bit odd that you would choose this thread to promote your own feminist ideals.

PS I didn't say that so take from it what you will

I see it as being directly tied in to this conversation.

I don't think anyone should be excluded from contributing to a thread just because you don't like what they are saying. That doesn't make any sense to me.

It just seems really contrary to anyone's point about being sexist to me. That's all.

Kay I'm gone, don't like the vibe here. Bye.

Yeah, just look at the name of the thread.

Aw, you say "feminist" like it's a bad thing. So if I dislike internalised misogyny, I should not be in a place that directly brings it up and have a discussion about it?

Well, people are all coming from different perspectives, despite what we may have in common. I am sorry if disagreements make you uncomfortable, but if you don't feel like you can be a part of the conversation, that's not anyone else's responsibility. I don't think anyone is trying to make you uncomfortable, but it's alright if you choose not to participate. We can't halt the conversation every time someone is uncomfortable with the topic.