How “Nice guys” are made, The ultimate post

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Looks like i have nice guy syndrome.

Yes but a trait common to all "nice guys" is that they have become so uptight and their self-esteem is in the pit, so this turns them into cowards and wussies, do to all the above mentioned reasons. Many guys are oblivious that they've been turned into scaredy cat wussies through modern society and they need to be "woken up" and learn to losen up...


It's not about cheezy seduction techniques it's about having perspective

You missed the point completely, he's trying to compensate for the supplicating and placating of wussy guys, wussy guys try to buy acceptance of a woman through placation and suplication, many do not engage women as human beings. They are so afraid of being assertive and leading, like having their own opinion, etc... that women can see that they are clueless.

Many "nice guys" are COMPLETELY oblivious to what they are doing wrong with women and hence their love life suffers. Many guys unhappyness, depression, etc all have an element of sexual frustration or difficult relations with the opposite sex. I don't think you understand the gravity of the problem.

These "Nice guys" aren't bad people, they've just been molded into people that the really don't want to be... does a "Nice guy" really want to be afraid of being good with girls, or bettering his social skills that will improve all areas of his life?

I really do not think you understand the gravity of how social ability is directly linked in many guys to life satisfaction (i.e. success with women, life, business, etc).

Could someone please explain what is so attractive about that level of arrogance? I don't treat women like s**t, not out of fear, but out of respect. I'm sure that women don't respond to guys who worship the ground they walk on, Mordy and company demonstrated that sufficiently. By that same logic, why would a self respecting woman respond to a guy treating her like a disposable commodity ("I don't have to get you flowers because I could nail any chick I want to. You hold no value to me")? A girl who responds to that has problems and it's sad that there are all these guys taking advantage of it.

It should be a relationship between equals; people who make decisions together and who have solid communication. Maybe woman in general are as shallow as DeAngelo describes them but I for one, will not be stooping to that level.

Out of all the Dating Guru's, i would say that David DeAngelo's stuff is probably the best.
My main criticism would be that he has attributes of a male model (obviously not his fault).
He may say that good looks are not integral, but they are certainly far more important than he gives them credit for.

I do prefer his attitude to that of Mystery Method and the Style thingy.
These people rely on field-tested routines. These may be effective, but i think they are not suitable for Aspies. I have always felt like i was trying to be someone i am not, which is easily picked up on.
I think the idea of canned-openers & canned-demostrating value (not to mention Ross Jeffries), etc., contradicts the idea of being an alpha-male. Ie. a true alpha-male would not need such stuff.
Anyway this is off-topic, since you were talking about David de Angelo's stuff ( just thought i would post my thoughts on some of his peers.)

The best thing i have watched of DYD series, is a lecture by someone known as Dr Phil.
Pick-up was hardly mentioned, more about a general attitude.
Corny in parts, but again I digress.

edit: BTW i would not recommend purchasing his stuff. The whole industry is a big racket. Maybe worth reading, but do not part with any cash. Just my opinion.

You're not understanding the woman's perspective:

Women get approached and hit on MANY times a day, every day, wherever they go, and they see "Nice guys" ALL the time. Guys who they know are desperate to get laid or jump into a relationship. Guys who engage them with the thought of getting into her pants and trying to hard to win her over before they even KNOW about the girl because underneath they have the wrong attitude and are so inexperienced because they would understand this if they were truly SOCIAL guys, the "nice guy" takes his approach to every girl as if she was a potential WIFE... that is a large part of the problem.

Many "nice guys" take it so seriously, they become anxious and fearful, or if they are social, they have no idea if they are boring the woman or not... because they have been socialy programmed by society and their mothers to believe the lie "Just be yourself", well if who you are is a boring f**k TO A WOMAN, you're not going to have a very good love life now are you? This doesn't mean you have to change who you are completely but you need to expand your horizons and be open, because women have the sexual power in society and they know it... and if you want to get laid you better become a better more interesting person that adds value to not just her life, but also your own and other peoples lives. Because the way women work are a product of evolutionary instincts and programming, you cannot countermand evolution they will consciously and "unconscously" look for certain traits in guys, and these trigger emotional responses that guide their behaviour.

Next because women are hit on so often they built up defense mechanisms because they simply do not have the time to deal with EVERY guy that will approach them, so they will "act like a b***h" to shut the guy down right away in order to live a sane existence. Because women have experienced so many clueless guys, they want someone who understands their world, and "gets it", and so does not put women on a pedestal, or attempt to suck up, they just want a regular guy who is not going to treat her like a potetnial wife before they have even gotten to know each other.

Hang on, aren't you contradicting yourself? How is a "bad boy" any more understanding than a "nice guy"? And it isn't black and white(nice guy/bad boy). Care to explain what the other stereotypical types of male personality are?

Man, I get you on "nice guys" approaching every woman as a potential wife, out of desperation. Cheap and lame.

First of all I don’t think you understand what I’ve said just yet. When I say, "Nice guy" or other guys say it. We mean SOCIALLY INEXPERIENCED, and clueless about how to make other people feel good and demonstrate high value to others so that they are an ENJOYABLE PERSON TO BE AROUND, all around, a friendly and likable person. This is the critical factor... A person who has a hard time interpreting the social world, and a person who has low value as a male, is not what women want. They want the best mate they can get, the problem is "Nice guys" have developed social and other characteristics as people that are unattractive to women as a byproduct of their upbringing, the media and modern society. There are many causes for this, each "Nice guy" is different, but the end result is, he's over emotionally invested in any interaction with women and can't simply enjoy himself, next is he doesn't understand that people are PREJUDICED, the are prejudiced as a result of evolution, they are biological robots, biological machines that WILL respond again and again to certain things.

This is why Mystery method WORKS, period. It's not a sham; if it was there would be no way mystery could be charging thousands of dollars for bootcamps to be successful with women.

This not about being an ARROGANT PRICK, it's about being PLAYFULLY TEASING, its called flirting... most nice guys do not know how to treat a woman. because the do not understand a womans reality. i.e. That women get sucked up to all the time, when they really just want to be treated like if she was your little sister, or more like (but not exactly like) "one of the guys" have fun. She doesn't want to be sucked up by what amounts to she thinks "desperate men" because they are so lacking in social perspective (j.e. having enough social experience by going out and having a good time, and women friends, to know what goes on in her life). So many "Nice guys" simply cannot relate because the do not have the necessary perspective or experience that the so called "alpha males" have.

Next is a guy that has a BACKBONE, many nice guys will cave under the least bit of bad behavior from a woman and NEVER call them on it in fear of the woman withholding sex because he's not confident he can find another woman easily, this demonstrates LOW VALUE, women don't want to mate with guys with LOW VALUE. i.e. guys that won't be able to stand up for themselves in the harsh winds and realities of modern life...

It demonstrates general weaknesses and women do not want to raise or have kids with a man who is going to cave in and make her life miserable under the least bit of pressure. The "Nice guy" thing is a BIG issue, and you really have to take time to understand the social dynamics. When ask those questions you show that you don't understand what is really at issue:

To give you an idea Some (but not all) "Nice Guys" do not enjoy talking and socializing about interesting things, where the good majority of women LOVE socializing and talking.

Last edited by Mordy on 02 Feb 2007, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mordy's original post has multiple logical fallacies. He complains about modern entertainment and he complains about friendless guys.

Well, guess what? In order for a young guy to make friends these days, he needs to be knowledgeable about modern entertainment! Most things people my age talk about is stupid and trivial. Why should I dumb myself down to their level?

I fail to see why I should need a social life or a girlfriend anyway. No one else shares common interests with me (or at least they're not interested in those things to the same extent or in the same way that I am), thus they're either boring or incredibly annoying to me. Mordy seems to be trying to discourage us from living independent lives where we do what we want without having to worry about what others want. If I live my life based on what others think, am I really leading a meaningful life? My answer is no. If something benefits me, I'm going to do it. If it doesn't, I'm not going to. I don't consider socialization to be of any benefit to me whatsoever, so I'm not going to do it. People can't entertain me as much as certain funny movies and TV shows can, and people can't provide me with valuable information as much as books and web sites can.

This is nonsense.
Many so-called psychics / mediums make thousands of dollars per day. They speak to the dead no more than you or i do. But there are plenty of believers.
Don't get me wrong, there is some truth and much to be learned from some techniques.
But the whole thing is a racket.

Ah, now I get you. Women do not want asshats, who will shift their views and tastes just to suit them.

It has NO logical fallacies, you don't understand it because you can't digest the perspectives. If you actually read what I wrote, I said what I wrote goes into MAKING nice guys, and that each composition of what people call "nice guys" is different but the end result is these guys end up posessing unattractive characteristics to many women.



You're missing the point again... you can have your interests and be yourself, but if being you means you are:

1) Unconcerned with how you look (bad hair cut, etc)
2) Do not care about fashion sense
3) You do not shower or keep a clean look
4) All you time is spent doing things 99% of other people do not enjoy
5) Are not a very likable or pleasant person to be around.

It is your own damn fault that your love life sucks.... think about everything else you ADAPTED and SUBMITTED to while existing in modern society, you 'submitted' to the school system, you 'submitted' the capitalist social order (adapted, etc).

Many AS guys have this superiority complex that they "know better" then the rest of the populace because usually they posess some fragments of intellectual giftendness that manifests itself in difference ways. They are in essence "Above" society, and above "the barbarian hordes" which they deem "Unworthy".

And that is because they are snobs, and that is the truth. There is no compromise in many AS guys minds because they have not matured, they are stuck like a child trapped in time seeing only hi own egocentric perpsective and wishes other people and the world would bow to his perspective since it would be "such a better place" not realizing what he percieves as "supplicating" or "changing himself" as a matter of his own egotistical pride in who he is and what he values, is nothing more then prejudice and snobbery born of evolutionary prejudice, since his mind does not reward him for engaging the "lesser beings" on "their level", they are like these egotistical royal as*holes in their mind, but the are too immature to see themselves how others see them.

Last edited by Mordy on 02 Feb 2007, 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Being an individual is immaturity?

It's the egocentric distortions of what I am saying is immaturity, you are locked in a mind that distorts social information and has trouble seeing the other persons perspective. Then an AS person may make judgements like "Oh, so you're calling me immature" as if I was attacking their ego, when I''m not... you have to realize that I have gone through a de-egocentrication process that many AS guys have not been able to do and hence they backwards rationalize and make judgements because they cannot PROCESS (and therfore understand) what is being said to them. Therefore many of their judgements are TOTALLY egocentric (i.e. based on their experiences, their interpretation, their ego, their frame of reference). They interpret the world as if their pronouncements or judgements were somehow authoritative and correct when it is that --- the information that allows one to see, and understnad new things -- never enters or reachers their mind because of the extreme difficulty...

Imagine I'm sending you a message... in the sky... and it says H E L P M E, I M D Y I N G

An AS person will see H P N G... and it will be total gibberish to them, because their mind cannot get the signal in the first place, or only get fragments of it and distortions of it because of the way the are wired. This is not their fault. But that does not mean nothing can be done to help them see, and have the information presented to them in a way they can understand it.

Last edited by Mordy on 02 Feb 2007, 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I think you're being a bit egotistical, claiming that you're better and more mature than all us other Aspies.

To an extent it's your fault, but others are also to blame for their intolerance.


You're attacking a strawman here. I'm not that way and I don't think any of the AS guys here are. Sure, we like being the way we are and refuse to change in order to conform , but I don't think any of us think we're better than everyone else.

While it may be a strawman, the stereotype is true, I have MET AS guys in real life. This does not mean all AS guys are such people, I'm saying the reason they become that way is because of their egocentric mind and the immense difficulty of their minds processing of social information. I just used that as an example of how their judgements are based on lack of information (that never reaches them) or distortions of it, because they cannot infer naturally how other people think and can "put themselves in their shoes" to truly grasp how they think.