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naturalplastic
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18 Apr 2014, 1:20 pm

Don't mean to be mean, but pondering your question of what "mean" means is no mean feat!

Know what I mean?



GGPViper
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18 Apr 2014, 1:43 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Averaging out the posts in the thread... what is the mean?

Well, not to be mean, but the mean number of means in this thread so far - including the means in this meaningful post - is:

N = 16
Number of means = 64

Thus, the mean number of means per post = 4



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18 Apr 2014, 1:47 pm

"I'm a man of means by no means."

--------------- Roger Miller



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18 Apr 2014, 1:48 pm

The number 4 is such a cocky number, finding the meaning of the meaning.


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ruveyn
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18 Apr 2014, 1:49 pm

The referent of a word or phrase.

In some contexts, meaning is purpose or goal.

ruveyn



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18 Apr 2014, 1:53 pm

Some people see meaning in every second of every day..

And some see little to none..

We create meaning..

It does not create us...

Nor is it guaranteed....

as such...

IS it any wonder..
that people speak different languages...

i think not..

Even in
ONE LANGUAGE..

AS SOME SEE MEANING..
AND SOME..
DO
NOT!

SO IN SHORT..
IT'S RELATIVE TO WHERE AND ONE IS..
IN AWARENESS OF full
EXIS
TENCE...
AKA
MEANING..

BUT SOME FOLKS THINK
TRUTH
IS
MEAN..backing
in to their
meaningless..
shell covering their TRUE EXISTENCE IN MEANING OF EVERY SECOND
OF EVERY DAY..
NOWONe

http://katiemiafrederick.com/2014/04/18 ... f-knowing/

is it word salad..

i think not..

See hEre's the thing...

Some folks have the ability to discern 'greater'

meaning in life..

some folks do not..

have this grace..

So is 'god' fair..

i know not...

i do not make the rules

i only watch...

AND DISCERN THEM.....

AND THEN...

mesSage them...

with meaning..

for those..

who discern.


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Last edited by aghogday on 18 Apr 2014, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Apr 2014, 3:11 pm

i have moments of awe like that all the time, usually when i'm outdoors somewhere quiet by myself.

i think that occasionally we are able to transcend our individuality--to step outside of our "i", our "me", our sense of self and individual identity--and when that happens what we experience is that feeling of connectedness, the recognition of our part in the larger system of reality. for our day-to-day physical existence it is a psychological requirement that we function closed off and separated from externalities as units of individual consciousness, but under the right circumstances we can drop the pretense of self (because i believe it is a pretense, a kind of necessary delusion) and just be and observe, and that's what triggers the sense of awe and connectedness.

have you ever read anything by krishnamurti? you might enjoy his take on meaning. i've only read one of his dialogues with another philosopher that i found online, but i've researched him since then and a few of his books are now on my reading list. from what i have read so far, he has a lot to offer on this subject.



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18 Apr 2014, 3:33 pm

starvingartist wrote:
i have moments of awe like that all the time, usually when i'm outdoors somewhere quiet by myself.

i think that occasionally we are able to transcend our individuality--to step outside of our "i", our "me", our sense of self and individual identity--and when that happens what we experience is that feeling of connectedness, the recognition of our part in the larger system of reality. for our day-to-day physical existence it is a psychological requirement that we function closed off and separated from externalities as units of individual consciousness, but under the right circumstances we can drop the pretense of self (because i believe it is a pretense, a kind of necessary delusion) and just be and observe, and that's what triggers the sense of awe and connectedness.

have you ever read anything by krishnamurti? you might enjoy his take on meaning. i've only read one of his dialogues with another philosopher that i found online, but i've researched him since then and a few of his books are now on my reading list. from what i have read so far, he has a lot to offer on this subject.


Agree with everything you said. :) I've got over a hundred of Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks.


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starvingartist
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18 Apr 2014, 3:55 pm

TallyMan wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
i have moments of awe like that all the time, usually when i'm outdoors somewhere quiet by myself.

i think that occasionally we are able to transcend our individuality--to step outside of our "i", our "me", our sense of self and individual identity--and when that happens what we experience is that feeling of connectedness, the recognition of our part in the larger system of reality. for our day-to-day physical existence it is a psychological requirement that we function closed off and separated from externalities as units of individual consciousness, but under the right circumstances we can drop the pretense of self (because i believe it is a pretense, a kind of necessary delusion) and just be and observe, and that's what triggers the sense of awe and connectedness.

have you ever read anything by krishnamurti? you might enjoy his take on meaning. i've only read one of his dialogues with another philosopher that i found online, but i've researched him since then and a few of his books are now on my reading list. from what i have read so far, he has a lot to offer on this subject.


Agree with everything you said. :) I've got over a hundred of Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks.


i just realised i still have that first dialogue i read bookmarked--here's the url if anyone's interested: The Ending of Time - Jiddu Krishnamurti

reading that literally changed my life--when i first discovered it i actually read it through twice because it spoke to me so profoundly and i felt like i had to go back through it to really take it all in. when i was finished i was so comforted by what i had learned that i felt less afraid of my own mortality, and that feeling has only increased ever since. i can't think of anything else i have ever read that effected me so powerfully in that way.



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18 Apr 2014, 4:13 pm

starvingartist wrote:
i have moments of awe like that all the time, usually when i'm outdoors somewhere quiet by myself.

i think that occasionally we are able to transcend our individuality--to step outside of our "i", our "me", our sense of self and individual identity--and when that happens what we experience is that feeling of connectedness, the recognition of our part in the larger system of reality. for our day-to-day physical existence it is a psychological requirement that we function closed off and separated from externalities as units of individual consciousness, but under the right circumstances we can drop the pretense of self (because i believe it is a pretense, a kind of necessary delusion) and just be and observe, and that's what triggers the sense of awe and connectedness.

have you ever read anything by krishnamurti? you might enjoy his take on meaning. i've only read one of his dialogues with another philosopher that i found online, but i've researched him since then and a few of his books are now on my reading list. from what i have read so far, he has a lot to offer on this subject.


mind often comes after a dream...

and can result in

something

like this..:)


http://katiemiafrederick.com/2014/04/18 ... f-knowing/


No.. i have not read Krishnamurti..and i will soon..

but so many other books and so many meanings..a joy for a mind like
mine..:)

it aint' like the oneS here..for the most IT seems...AND IT seems you are
ONE of the exceptional ones..;)

But as they say ..ya met one autistic person...

you've

met

ONLY ONE..;)

There are some artistic autistics..and there are some who are
NOt..sadly it seems..to me..at least...

Artistic is definitely kooler to me....
aLL ways KnowNOw..
at least for me...:)


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18 Apr 2014, 4:15 pm

starvingartist wrote:
reading that literally changed my life


Krishnamurti has a tendency to do that. His teachings have had a very significant impact on my life too.


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Hopper
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18 Apr 2014, 4:18 pm

I think the 'spark' comes from a new way one sees things. A shift in our perspective, or seeing a connection or relation or overlap we hadn't previously seen or made. Perhaps in such moments new meaning is forged for us, hence the rush.


I can imagine there are too many possible answers to your question, and yet not a single one may satisfy. What you describe sounds close to 'the sublime', which has been pondered on a lot, but I'm not sure if it has that sense of 'trouble' to it, like, say, a sweet scent that gets ever sweeter til its too much, and puts one in two minds as to whether we want it to stop.

I mean, there are things I like to think about, and thinking about them makes me very excited. Interesting - or given the site, perhaps not - you speak of systems: my own preference is considering, say, phone lines and power lines and water courses/drains and that old Aspie standby, rail networks. And woods and forests and trees and the rich mythology and fairytaleness found there. And what Steven Hall called 'unspace'.

All this put me in mind of a passage from C.S Lewis's 'Surprised by Joy'. I can't remember in what, but years ago I read someone quoting Lewis's line about being 'troubled by the Idea of Autumn', and thought, 'yep'. This is a long quote. I wonder if it makes sense.

C.S. Lewis wrote:
The thing has been much better done by Traherne and Wordsworth, but every man must tell his own tale.

The first is itself the memory of a memory. As I stood beside a flowering currant bush on a summer day there suddenly arose in me without warning, and as if from a depth not of years but of centuries, the memory of that earlier morning at the Old House when my brother had brought his toy garden into the nursery. It is difficult to find words strong enough for the sensation which came over me; Milton's "enormous bliss" of Eden (giving the full, ancient meaning to "enormous") comes somewhere near it. It was a sensation, of course, of desire; but desire for what? not, certainly, for a biscuit tin filled with moss, nor even (though that came into it) for my own past. [There is here some Greek, translated in a footnote as, 'Oh, I desire too much']—and before I knew what I desired, the desire itself was gone, the whole glimpse withdrawn, the world turned commonplace again, or only stirred by a longing for the longing that had just ceased. It had taken only a moment of time; and in a certain sense everything else that had ever happened to me was insignificant in comparison.

The second glimpse came through Squirrel Nutkin; through it only, though I loved all the Beatrix Potter books. But the rest of them were merely entertaining; it administered the shock, it was a trouble. It troubled me with what I can only describe as the Idea of Autumn. It sounds fantastic to say that one can be enamored of a season, but that is something like what happened; and, as before, the experience was one of intense desire. And one went back to the book, not to gratify the desire (that was impossible—how can one possess Autumn?) but to reawake it. And in this experience also there was the same surprise and the same sense of incalculable importance. It was something quite different from ordinary life and even from ordinary pleasure...

The third glimpse came through poetry. I had become fond of Longfellow's 'Saga of King Olaf': fond of it in a casual, shallow way for its story and its vigorous rhythms. But then, and quite different from such pleasures, and like a voice from far more distant regions, there came a moment when I idly turned the pages of the book and found the unrhymed translation of Tegner's Drapa and read

I heard a voice that cried,
Balder the beautiful
Is dead, is dead


I knew nothing about Balder; but instantly I was uplifted into huge regions of northern sky, I desired with almost sickening intensity something never to be described (except that it is cold, spacious, severe, pale, and remote) and then, as in the other examples, found myself at the very same moment already falling out of that desire and wishing I were back in it.... the quality common to the three experiences; it is that of an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction. I call it Joy, which is here a technical term and must be sharply distinguished both from Happiness and from Pleasure. Joy (in my sense) has indeed one characteristic, and one only, in common with them; the fact that anyone who has experienced it will want it again. Apart from that, and considered only in its quality, it might almost equally well be called a particular kind of unhappiness or grief. But then it is a kind we want. I doubt whether anyone who has tasted it would ever, if both were in his power, exchange it for all the pleasures in the world. But then Joy is never in our power and pleasure often is.


"an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction" - nail/head.

Ever looked at a landscape (or a tree, or a building, or the sky, etc) and wanted to be it?


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Last edited by Hopper on 18 Apr 2014, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aghogday
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18 Apr 2014, 4:57 pm

Hopper wrote:
I think the 'spark' comes from a new way one sees things. A shift in our perspective, or seeing a connection or relation or overlap we hadn't previously seen or made. Perhaps in such moments new meaning is forged for us, hence the rush.


I can imagine there are too many possible answers to your question, and yet not a single one may satisfy. What you describe sounds close to 'the sublime', which has been pondered on a lot, but I'm not sure if it has that sense of 'trouble' to it, like, say, a sweet scent that gets ever sweeter til its too much, and puts one in two minds as to whether we want it to stop.

I mean, there are things I like to think about, and thinking about them makes me very excited. Interesting - or given the site, perhaps not - you speak of systems: my own preference is considering, say, phone lines and power lines and water courses/drains and that old Aspie standby, rail networks.

All this put me in mind of a passage from C.S Lewis's 'Surprised by Joy'. I can't remember in what, but years ago I read someone quoting Lewis's line about being 'troubled by the Idea of Autumn', and thought, 'yep'. This is a long quote. I wonder if it makes sense.

C.S. Lewis wrote:
The thing has been much better done by Traherne and Wordsworth, but every man must tell his own tale.

The first is itself the memory of a memory. As I stood beside a flowering currant bush on a summer day there suddenly arose in me without warning, and as if from a depth not of years but of centuries, the memory of that earlier morning at the Old House when my brother had brought his toy garden into the nursery. It is difficult to find words strong enough for the sensation which came over me; Milton's "enormous bliss" of Eden (giving the full, ancient meaning to "enormous") comes somewhere near it. It was a sensation, of course, of desire; but desire for what? not, certainly, for a biscuit tin filled with moss, nor even (though that came into it) for my own past. [There is here some Greek, translated in a footnote as, 'Oh, I desire too much']—and before I knew what I desired, the desire itself was gone, the whole glimpse withdrawn, the world turned commonplace again, or only stirred by a longing for the longing that had just ceased. It had taken only a moment of time; and in a certain sense everything else that had ever happened to me was insignificant in comparison.

The second glimpse came through Squirrel Nutkin; through it only, though I loved all the Beatrix Potter books. But the rest of them were merely entertaining; it administered the shock, it was a trouble. It troubled me with what I can only describe as the Idea of Autumn. It sounds fantastic to say that one can be enamored of a season, but that is something like what happened; and, as before, the experience was one of intense desire. And one went back to the book, not to gratify the desire (that was impossible—how can one possess Autumn?) but to reawake it. And in this experience also there was the same surprise and the same sense of incalculable importance. It was something quite different from ordinary life and even from ordinary pleasure...

The third glimpse came through poetry. I had become fond of Longfellow's 'Saga of King Olaf': fond of it in a casual, shallow way for its story and its vigorous rhythms. But then, and quite different from such pleasures, and like a voice from far more distant regions, there came a moment when I idly turned the pages of the book and found the unrhymed translation of Tegner's Drapa and read

I heard a voice that cried,
Balder the beautiful
Is dead, is dead


I knew nothing about Balder; but instantly I was uplifted into huge regions of northern sky, I desired with almost sickening intensity something never to be described (except that it is cold, spacious, severe, pale, and remote) and then, as in the other examples, found myself at the very same moment already falling out of that desire and wishing I were back in it.... the quality common to the three experiences; it is that of an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction. I call it Joy, which is here a technical term and must be sharply distinguished both from Happiness and from Pleasure. Joy (in my sense) has indeed one characteristic, and one only, in common with them; the fact that anyone who has experienced it will want it again. Apart from that, and considered only in its quality, it might almost equally well be called a particular kind of unhappiness or grief. But then it is a kind we want. I doubt whether anyone who has tasted it would ever, if both were in his power, exchange it for all the pleasures in the world. But then Joy is never in our power and pleasure often is.


"an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction" - nail/head.

Ever looked at a landscape (or a tree, or a building, or the sky, etc) and wanted to be it?


Yes.. i personally think it is in the Spark...

And there are so many many possible ignition points..more than ever now..to spark this higher knowing of human being....

IN MEANING AND PURPOSE..

with full freedom of expression..and the internet...

problem being though..is the herd is most always afraid of the 'different' in life...

Fear is the enemy

The spark is alive...

I love CS Lewis...

some folks so easily transmit

Truth in Poetry...

CS Lewis is certainly ONE

of these...:)

FOLKS' SONGS OF

Truth..;)

LIFE IS GOOD!

OR GOD
OR
WHATEVER
TF
COMES
FTW!
TO SPARK A SOUL AND SPIRIT A
LIVE1!
2


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salamandaqwerty
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18 Apr 2014, 6:14 pm

starvingartist wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
i have moments of awe like that all the time, usually when i'm outdoors somewhere quiet by myself.

i think that occasionally we are able to transcend our individuality--to step outside of our "i", our "me", our sense of self and individual identity--and when that happens what we experience is that feeling of connectedness, the recognition of our part in the larger system of reality. for our day-to-day physical existence it is a psychological requirement that we function closed off and separated from externalities as units of individual consciousness, but under the right circumstances we can drop the pretense of self (because i believe it is a pretense, a kind of necessary delusion) and just be and observe, and that's what triggers the sense of awe and connectedness.

have you ever read anything by krishnamurti? you might enjoy his take on meaning. i've only read one of his dialogues with another philosopher that i found online, but i've researched him since then and a few of his books are now on my reading list. from what i have read so far, he has a lot to offer on this subject.


Agree with everything you said. :) I've got over a hundred of Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks.


i just realised i still have that first dialogue i read bookmarked--here's the url if anyone's interested: The Ending of Time - Jiddu Krishnamurti

reading that literally changed my life--when i first discovered it i actually read it through twice because it spoke to me so profoundly and i felt like i had to go back through it to really take it all in. when i was finished i was so comforted by what i had learned that i felt less afraid of my own mortality, and that feeling has only increased ever since. i can't think of anything else i have ever read that effected me so powerfully in that way.


Thank you for the recommendation! I have not read their work before so I am quite excited about it. :D from what you have said I think it will come to have great meaning for me.
Feel free to PM me as I think you and I may have a lot in common, cheers

To everyone else, thank you for all the puns, insights and general cheekiness :lol:
Reading through the replies this morning has been fun and meaningful.


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salamandaqwerty
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18 Apr 2014, 6:26 pm

Hopper wrote:
I think the 'spark' comes from a new way one sees things. A shift in our perspective, or seeing a connection or relation or overlap we hadn't previously seen or made. Perhaps in such moments new meaning is forged for us, hence the rush.


I can imagine there are too many possible answers to your question, and yet not a single one may satisfy. What you describe sounds close to 'the sublime', which has been pondered on a lot, but I'm not sure if it has that sense of 'trouble' to it, like, say, a sweet scent that gets ever sweeter til its too much, and puts one in two minds as to whether we want it to stop.

I mean, there are things I like to think about, and thinking about them makes me very excited. Interesting - or given the site, perhaps not - you speak of systems: my own preference is considering, say, phone lines and power lines and water courses/drains and that old Aspie standby, rail networks. And woods and forests and trees and the rich mythology and fairytaleness found there. And what Steven Hall called 'unspace'.

All this put me in mind of a passage from C.S Lewis's 'Surprised by Joy'. I can't remember in what, but years ago I read someone quoting Lewis's line about being 'troubled by the Idea of Autumn', and thought, 'yep'. This is a long quote. I wonder if it makes sense.

C.S. Lewis wrote:
The thing has been much better done by Traherne and Wordsworth, but every man must tell his own tale.

The first is itself the memory of a memory. As I stood beside a flowering currant bush on a summer day there suddenly arose in me without warning, and as if from a depth not of years but of centuries, the memory of that earlier morning at the Old House when my brother had brought his toy garden into the nursery. It is difficult to find words strong enough for the sensation which came over me; Milton's "enormous bliss" of Eden (giving the full, ancient meaning to "enormous") comes somewhere near it. It was a sensation, of course, of desire; but desire for what? not, certainly, for a biscuit tin filled with moss, nor even (though that came into it) for my own past. [There is here some Greek, translated in a footnote as, 'Oh, I desire too much']—and before I knew what I desired, the desire itself was gone, the whole glimpse withdrawn, the world turned commonplace again, or only stirred by a longing for the longing that had just ceased. It had taken only a moment of time; and in a certain sense everything else that had ever happened to me was insignificant in comparison.

The second glimpse came through Squirrel Nutkin; through it only, though I loved all the Beatrix Potter books. But the rest of them were merely entertaining; it administered the shock, it was a trouble. It troubled me with what I can only describe as the Idea of Autumn. It sounds fantastic to say that one can be enamored of a season, but that is something like what happened; and, as before, the experience was one of intense desire. And one went back to the book, not to gratify the desire (that was impossible—how can one possess Autumn?) but to reawake it. And in this experience also there was the same surprise and the same sense of incalculable importance. It was something quite different from ordinary life and even from ordinary pleasure...

The third glimpse came through poetry. I had become fond of Longfellow's 'Saga of King Olaf': fond of it in a casual, shallow way for its story and its vigorous rhythms. But then, and quite different from such pleasures, and like a voice from far more distant regions, there came a moment when I idly turned the pages of the book and found the unrhymed translation of Tegner's Drapa and read

I heard a voice that cried,
Balder the beautiful
Is dead, is dead


I knew nothing about Balder; but instantly I was uplifted into huge regions of northern sky, I desired with almost sickening intensity something never to be described (except that it is cold, spacious, severe, pale, and remote) and then, as in the other examples, found myself at the very same moment already falling out of that desire and wishing I were back in it.... the quality common to the three experiences; it is that of an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction. I call it Joy, which is here a technical term and must be sharply distinguished both from Happiness and from Pleasure. Joy (in my sense) has indeed one characteristic, and one only, in common with them; the fact that anyone who has experienced it will want it again. Apart from that, and considered only in its quality, it might almost equally well be called a particular kind of unhappiness or grief. But then it is a kind we want. I doubt whether anyone who has tasted it would ever, if both were in his power, exchange it for all the pleasures in the world. But then Joy is never in our power and pleasure often is.


"an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction" - nail/head.

Ever looked at a landscape (or a tree, or a building, or the sky, etc) and wanted to be it?


Spot on, thank you!
I find Goethe has a wonderful understanding of the sublime too.
I absolutely loved reading your posts
PM's are welcome :D


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aghogday
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19 Apr 2014, 10:00 am

@starving artist ..i did make time to read the link..

and all Mr. "K" says is in complete alignment of my ideas of GOD as the limitless energy within and outside of one with ONE..

There was a time when i experienced a complete abyss of human energy..at the bottom of a stay of 40 days without sleep from type two atypical trigeminal neuralgia.. the worst pain known to mankind..chronic during all waking hours..and dysautonomia where my blood pressure and heart rate did not synch through the neurology of my brain...

My only relief was one hour of shallow sleep from the effect of a powerful Alpha blocker to slow my heart..that would race to provide blood to my brain..every time i even raised arms above my head...

That relief was one hour each night for the first 35 days and absolutely no sleep the last 5 days of 40...

Each day was a deeper..EXPANDED ring of hell of Dante's metaphorical Inferno...

At the bottom of that hell was an abyss of misery of nothingness..complete nothingness..existence in feeling like a piece of paper..where even the chronic pain stabbing my eye and ear..like teeth drilled without novocaine..completely disappearing during that period..at the bottom of abyss.. i prayed for with all my might to come back again.. to feel anything at all..

At this point..with absolutely no energy in me..in what i describe as the all connecting force of GOD..

Was the experience of time so slow as every second is perceived as 1000 years of the illusion called time..the illusion of the move away from true human...

But now..i truly am living in true reality of the potential of human bliss in the heaven now..where there is absolutely no illusion of time...

And Mr. K's insights on knowledge as the illusory force that lead to this illusion of time..is spot on...

To set oneself free..one must let go of knowledge 'thoughts'..and find a way in human movement of body..heart mind..spirit..soul and the simple acceptance of the mystery of beyond what is seen with the 'normal' senses..of true reality as IS..the FORCE AKA GOD..and what my pet name of historical term ELOHIM..IS..the balance of human including such as the masculine and feminine forces of being..full human being...

We have a knowledge based society at this point in time..per the control of sidewalks we construct to establish order..that only takes away true freedom of human being in totality of balance..

Interesting as when the body becomes free in movement in a TAI CHI way..the mind follows in concert...

And then the body moves without thought...

and the mind follows to..

as such...

Being retired it is so much easier to get there..than the out of human existence..that is our cultural reality to work and produce what cannot be touched and seen..so often..as creation activity..through technology..a keyboard...a screen so much as is today...instead of what we can create as true GOD's within..when TRULY SET FREE WITH OUR FORCE OR GOD GIVEN ENERGY..FOR INCREDIBLE HUMAN POTENTIAL...

simply through the FULL INSTINCT of what we are..at this point in physical and all evolution of man....

It never lies in the knowledge that makes the illusion of time..in fact..that is lie..

Truth is in instinct..in living in heaven now...

Culture is the illusion..

the potential

path

to human hell...

And western ways of school is the progenitor of most of that hell..here in the US..at least....

The results can clearly be seen on this site.

i a member

but now free....with no time or cognizant knowledge to sink my body..heart..mind..soul..spirit and beyond..

to confined

hell of abyss and misery....of TIME ILLUSION

There is NO instructed path to get there..

It is all FREE....

The challenge is for each and every being..to flow their own path..

in forge of life...

My cat does a fine job..of this...

But the cat is not saddled with complex language..collective knowledge..or the complex culture..

of Time
instead
of
FREE..

Be a true cat..;)not a lying one...;)
ynot...
:)
It is possible.....theTRUE HUMAN potential..


TH@IS
sIMPly
is
LOVINGLIFE


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

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