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Human beings are very susceptible to negative programming
True 71%  71%  [ 10 ]
False 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
They are most susceptible of all to meaningless polling questions. 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 14

naturalplastic
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29 Sep 2014, 12:03 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Consumerism is closely linked to hedonic adaptation and humans have been struggling with that for at least a couple thousand years...

I don't think it's necessarily due to 'programming.' I think it's more like a naturally occurring maladaptive tendency.


I tend to think it is more about programming. Society tells you you cannot possibly be happy with less. You can only be happy with more. Therefore you endeavor to obtain more and more. You do not have a sense of fulfillment. You do not look for fulfillment from simple pleasures in life.


Then why is one of the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not covet"? If people had to be programmed to consume, rather than programmed not to, that commandment would be uneccessary.


Oh don't get me started on the Bible. Heh, it's not the best programming either. Some of it is okay but this obsession with Apocalypse, anti Christs, prophets and miracles confuse people, mislead them, and cause them to become obsessed with really morbid topics. I am not impressed in the least.
People do not follow the ten commandments that much, anyway. Even states execute people. The Bible says thou shalt not murder. It doesn't say thou shalt not murder except in cases of self defense, retribution, abortion. It just says thou shalt not murder. I won't even get started on adultery and bearing false witness, the two most abused commandments of all. Let's remember eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but not life for life. The Bible never says life for life but then God comes along and kills you for not following him. Confusion on a silver platter.

I think it's a combination of genetics and programming that determine what people will focus on in life. but yes they are highly susceptible to programming.

The Bible isn't as great an influence as the media, anyway, and the media pretty much promotes gluttony at all costs.


you're missing the point.
He is not asking you to like the Bible.
He is saying that thousands of years before Madison Avenue an ancient book was trying to put the fear of god into you to not covet. Which means even before modern media -folks covetted.


Well it's obvious what is in the Bible is an attempt to deprogram the programming that existed before which was obviously based on coveting what others had.


Exactly HOW is that obvious?

Madison Avenue didnt exist in the previous Bronze Age either.



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29 Sep 2014, 12:17 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There are some people who are not gluttons and find joy in the simplest things. There are others who find joy in solving intricate problems. Take the genes from these people and splice them into everyone. Then, a genetic resistance to gluttony is created.


What you call "programming" is "Culture". We are all programmed by our culture. But some things are innate.

But here in this post you're getting confused about your own topic. In the rest of this thread you're talking about society programming us wrong through cultural means like media or relgion etc.

But now you're talking about gene splicing to change innate instincts.

So which subject are you talking about? Changing people's ideas via cultural programming? Or actually breeding bad stuff out of people genetically?



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29 Sep 2014, 12:34 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There are some people who are not gluttons and find joy in the simplest things. There are others who find joy in solving intricate problems. Take the genes from these people and splice them into everyone. Then, a genetic resistance to gluttony is created.


On your faith in Science I could build a religion, only you are wrong.

Science cannot do the things you think. Science Fiction can.

Hot wiring DNA is not possible, nor would it be legal if possible.

The obease problem is recent, so it cannot be genetic.

A few hundred years ago people ate a lot more. Few got fat. Perhaps it was pure food, more active lives,

Books published is known, there were few readers. Most were satisified by their local lives.

During the American Civil War, 25% of the men were literate, few of the women, none of the slaves.

While more are literate now, few seek answers.

The poor are most likely to be obease, the rich fit. The very rich are not over consumers, the foolish middle does that.

The only thing that worked over time was humans screw up and cause mass dieoffs. Each one alters the gene pool.

If I could feed everyone in the coming famine, I would not.

We progress when too dumb to live dies.

The farther back you go, the higher the murder rate. Few people, many more resources, murder was common.

This is the fourth wave of cities and large populations, the first three died, the few suvivors were those who thought for themselves.

You cannot fix stupid.



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29 Sep 2014, 2:23 am

YES it is possible for an embryo to have three parents it's just some people are so scared of technology and engineering the government has decided to dictate to scientists they cannot research it. So, we cannot develop this technology at the present time. It's a shame because the entire species could greatly benefit.
The reason it is not being developed is due to fear of designer babies and people wanting only specific physical traits in their offspring. This is just superficial rubbish. People should be more concerned with the temperament in their offspring than any physical trait and we do know genes determine temperament, we see it all the time in domesticated animals. Docile parents produce docile offspring.



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29 Sep 2014, 7:20 am

Ana, I suggest that you watch the movie the 'Giver'. To do this means taking emotions away from human beings. It's impossible to do that and not create human suffering. But this fictional movie will give you an idea of what reality would be like if your science fiction could come true. And to be clear, I know you have good intentions, I just don't think you may have explored ALL of the implications of what you are wishing for. And no, you are not the first one with this ideology of 'Utopia'.

It's really beyond horrifying. As without emotion people will 'cut' themselves to feel anything and that's also a metaphor for self harm. And the only way to do what you suggest is to take away human emotion. That would OVERALL be human hell, incarnate on earth.

But here's a trailer of the movie to give you perhaps a 'larger taste' of what you are asking for, below.

The old proverb careful what you wish for does apply. It takes all kind of minds to make the correct decisions in life, and always a team effort. And that's why fortunately it will never happen. Mother nature is way too 'smart' for humans, to even 'allow' them to make such a decision in cooperative effort. That's what humans do: work with diversity. To work without diversity is A sure WAY for human failure.

And yes, even at the individual level in just one solitary mind, per using both sides of the metaphorical mind with emotion and reason and yes body too, working in balance, allowing the real glue of the rhythms of emotion, reason and body to make a peaceful and productive life. And yes, science is finally catching up to understand that the Eastern instinctual and intuitive ways of healing in mind, body and emotional balance are real, and have always been real.

The emotions exist within the body, and a body not used in lieu of a life spent in mind, is a sure way to imbalance and human suffering. Books are not enough, and never will be. Robots don't thrive. That's just a metaphor but it's what we become without a body properly used with emotion, as partial human beings.

And no, again, it's not just my opinion. It is the opinion of the scientific method now. The movie below just illustrates it well, as science is finally catching up to human intuition and instinct. Instinct and Intuition is usually correct, as no one lives a human life, except humans. Human being simply doesn't work without human being balance. And that means diverse minds, A diverse mind, and diverse ways of living in balance of emotions, reason, and body.

And the coolest thing of all, when ONE GETS right DOWN to it, it's not complicated at all. The simple answer is dance and human connection. Sometimes people have problems 'seeing' clearly though, as they've lost their body. Yes, literally physioLOGICALLY lost their body. It's the same thing really as losing one's mind as they are supposed to be connected.

And again, emotions do physiologically reside within the body, and that's why folks so many folks get so screwed up, these days, spending a life in abstract thinking WITH ILLUSORY CULTURALLY DERIVED FEARS instead of REAL BODY AND EMOTIONS LIFE, CONNECTING WITH others as such with REAL BODY ACTIVITIES like DANCE.

It's really as simple as that. But folks have been saying it for a very long time, including the man Yeshua aka Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas. It wasn't a very popular notion among the 'GOOD BOOK WORMS? at the time of his life, obviously. But thank GOD for science. It finally backs him up.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

The irony seriously, is delicious, and that part is just in my opinion. :)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvp6FnYWRZU[/youtube]


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29 Sep 2014, 4:31 pm

I haven't seen the movie, , Aghogday, but I did read the book years ago. Hollywood and the media likes to turn every idea except freedom/gluttony at all costs into a dystopic outcome. I don't agree with that. I think we can and should improve. How we live now is pretty much a dead end but you cannot get people to change. They won't do it. Too stubborn. brainwashed and unhappy. Well, if our gluttony culture is such a fabulously rewarding one, why are so many of us downright miserable a great deal of the time?

Let's take space exploration. We can sit here and say it is a bad idea because the space ship will be small, the space travelers will suffer from confinement, lack of gravity, the food will be horrible, the homesickness insufferable. I could go on and on and on as to why it would be a total dystopia on that space ship. Should we let what I say alter the possibility of exploring new worlds? Is the threat of this being dystopic enough to give up the pursuit of space travel entirely?



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29 Sep 2014, 4:47 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I haven't seen the movie, , Aghogday, but I did read the book years ago. Hollywood and the media likes to turn every idea except freedom/gluttony at all costs into a dystopic outcome.

Yes, the trope of taking away an undesirable trait leading to a loss of our humanity is common in books and movies. There's a reason for that. It really is a plausible outcome. Our flaws are part of what makes us human. If you take that out, we stop being fully human.

Quote:
I don't agree with that. I think we can and should improve. How we live now is pretty much a dead end but you cannot get people to change. They won't do it. Too stubborn. brainwashed and unhappy. Well, if our gluttony culture is such a fabulously rewarding one, why are so many of us downright miserable a great deal of the time?


This is a paraphrase of the speech every well-meaning villain gives in these movies/books to justify the atrocity of destroying our humanity so we'll be happier. Being happy all the time is not the point. Being human is. We need to find a way to save the planet from our ravages of it but without mangling our humanity in the process.

I agree with aghogday on this one.



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29 Sep 2014, 4:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I haven't seen the movie, , Aghogday, but I did read the book years ago. Hollywood and the media likes to turn every idea except freedom/gluttony at all costs into a dystopic outcome. I don't agree with that. I think we can and should improve. How we live now is pretty much a dead end but you cannot get people to change. They won't do it. Too stubborn. brainwashed and unhappy. Well, if our gluttony culture is such a fabulously rewarding one, why are so many of us downright miserable a great deal of the time?

Let's take space exploration. We can sit here and say it is a bad idea because the space ship will be small, the space travelers will suffer from confinement, lack of gravity, the food will be horrible, the homesickness insufferable. I could go on and on and on as to why it would be a total dystopia on that space ship. Should we let what I say alter the possibility of exploring new worlds? Is the threat of this being dystopic enough to give up the pursuit of space travel entirely?

The only way to end gluttony is through self restraint and discipline that can only be learned. I never understood give me liberty or give me death until I learned to be free through instinct and intuition. Now that I have both discipline and true huma freedom I live in bliss even in challenge; the natural anima way of being. Not everyone learns like this but who will to do. It is never my place to control the will of others. Even the Hollywood movie version of the Giver understands that. The challenge is truly understanding that. There are no pills for life and certainly not freedom.


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29 Sep 2014, 4:52 pm

To answer the original question: are people suseptible to negative programming?- since by "programming" the OP seems to mean cultural conditioning- and since humans can be culturally conditioned to do either good stuff or bad stuff- the answer would seemed to be "yes". Humans can't even function, or do anything- without the culture of their society. So yes folks can be conditioned to do stuff that is immoral, or fattening. Or positive stuff too.

But thats like saying "Yes indeed! Bachelors are single!". Its not saying much.

But towards the end of the thread the OP is off on another tack: about genetically engineering a- I dont know WHAT! A master race of clones of herself perhaps?

Too far off the deep end for me miss Fuhrer, ...I mean.... Miss Ana! :)



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29 Sep 2014, 5:00 pm

aghogday wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I haven't seen the movie, , Aghogday, but I did read the book years ago. Hollywood and the media likes to turn every idea except freedom/gluttony at all costs into a dystopic outcome. I don't agree with that. I think we can and should improve. How we live now is pretty much a dead end but you cannot get people to change. They won't do it. Too stubborn. brainwashed and unhappy. Well, if our gluttony culture is such a fabulously rewarding one, why are so many of us downright miserable a great deal of the time?

Let's take space exploration. We can sit here and say it is a bad idea because the space ship will be small, the space travelers will suffer from confinement, lack of gravity, the food will be horrible, the homesickness insufferable. I could go on and on and on as to why it would be a total dystopia on that space ship. Should we let what I say alter the possibility of exploring new worlds? Is the threat of this being dystopic enough to give up the pursuit of space travel entirely?

The only way to end gluttony is through self restraint and discipline that can only be learned. I never understood give me liberty or give me death until I learned to be free through instinct and intuition. Now that I have both discipline and true huma freedom I live in bliss even in challenge; the natural anima way of being. Not everyone learns like this but who will to do. It is never my place to control the will of others. Even the Hollywood movie version of the Giver understands that. The challenge is truly understanding that. There are no pills for life and certainly not freedom.


To go with another book/movie, that^^^ is the message of "A Clockwork Orange". If you enforce a good behaviour by making it physically impossible to behave badly, you have enslaved people. Freedom comes from free will and the use of it.



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29 Sep 2014, 5:51 pm

^^
I've been wanting to see that movie for literally decades, and thanks for reminding me. I think I'll pick it up at Walmart next time I'm by that way, and give it a watch. I'm not much for TV, but I'm always inspired by moral messages of movies that support the TRUE FREEDOM of human will. :) And Hollywood seems to be rife with it lately, as they are certainly not for fundamentalist values overall, and OMG, that's a relief, as people really do get meaning from watching movies, listening to music, etc. And truly freedom of Will is the message in main stream pop culture today.

Fundamentalist religious folks across the globe don't like it and in some countries like Pakistan Youtube is totally censored.

But Freedom is continuing to spread. With enough time and effort things will change, as going into the inside of these countries in communicating through uncensored blogs they are literally starving for freedom; particularly women, of course, as they are the largest and most substantially impacted demographic still, in the ways of fundamentalist Abrahamic religious teachings, and particularly where church and state work as one subjugating, oppressive, and repressive force of true freedom of human nature.


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