God does nor exist nor do gods exist!

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Well what I presented was fact, not conjecture, and the fact is human beings for the most part are feeling creatures and feeling creatures feel more than empty words.

There are also folks who see tapestry like Forrest Gump and people who see details like Richard Dawkins.

Now to be clear these are generalizations, but that's what folks who see tapestry do.

And oh by the way, I see detail as SMALL as anyone here, per my GPA, college and work history that does PROVE that out also.

It's nice to see BOTH POINTS of view.

The thing is most people have great difficulty escaping the illusions of linguistic centric ways of expressing the essence of life and culture centric ways of tribal living, and excluding the other point of view, per the instinctual need for social acceptance.

That's why in the 'herd' you have some folks who refuse to see the point of view of atheists and refuse to see the point of view of fundamentalist Christians who are both, by the way, by very nature of mind per nurture and nature, literal and detail thinkers who cannot see metaphors in life clearly, overall. And yes, this is another generalization.

The FACT OF THE MATTER PER SCIENCE AND THE LANGUAGE OF GOD FOR SOME FOLKS WHO ARE Atheists is that GOD aka Mother Nature True is the Interdependent Relationship of all that IS per a FORCE THAT CONNECTS US ALL.

AND BY GOD, for anyone who can escape linguistic centric and cultural centric ways of viewing REALITY, It is obvious as the mountain on the FACE OF GOD, THAT IT IS THE SAME DAM THING, that Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, and 10 thousand other Philosophers ARE talking about through their lens of life

Science proves GOD now to BE REAL, YES SOMETHING TANGIBLE THAT WE CAN VIEW WITH THE AIDED EYE AND EAR.

AND IT matters NOT IF ONE CALLS GOD NATURE OR DOG.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE ARE ALL CONNECTED AND THIS INTERCONNECTing FORCE THAT SOME FOLKS CALL GOD OR NATURE IS THE SAME DAM THING FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE 'SMART' ENOUGH TO ESCAPE PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT WHAT LANGUAGE AND THE CULTURE THAT CONTROLS THEM IS. And that has little to do with standard IQ per the ability to escape.

This is extremely hard to explain the tapestry part of this to a detail thinker (atheist) and is extremely hard to explain the science part of it to a detail thinker (Fundamentalist Christian) simply as they think rather than feel the world overall, and sometimes never FEEL AND OBSERVE THE TAPESTRY OF GOD IN THEIR LIFE.

WORDS are only empty shells without feeling.

But that's TAPESTRY TALK, NOT DETAIL TALK.

And it's fascinating to me, and part of why I became a REAL LIFE PHILOSOPHER AS A HOBBY.

AS WE ARE ARE ALL CONNECTED IF WE CAN COME TO SEE IT AND SCIENCE PROVES IT OUT AND THE SCIENTISTS IN THE FOLLOWING VIDEO ARE AS EXCITING ABOUT SHARING THE AMAZING TRUTH ABOUT MOTHER NATURE TRUE AS ANY FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN OUT IN THE STREET SPREADING IGNORANCE ABOUT THEIR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY.

THE TRUTH HERE IS THERE IS A WAY OF TRUTH AND THAT IS MOTHER NATURE TRUE per the beautiful and true video below. These SCIENTIST folks IN THE LEAGUE OF EINSTEIN see both detail and tapestry and Nature is just another name for GOD.

YES, OBVIOUSLY the same ONE folks who see tapestry have been talking about for thousands of years per TAO, DAO, CHI, KI, DHARMA, GREAT SPIRIT, KUNDALINI; YES, THE FORCE GOES ON AND THE LIST GOES ON.......THAT DESCRIBES GOD ONE AND SAME.....

But please don't take my word for it alone.

Listen to the scientists if you will, and see if you can see It AND FEEL IT aka GOD. :)

They can see IT, AND FEEL IT, and they are EXCITED ABOUT IT, FOR SURE, EVIDENCED AS FACT.

THE QUESTION IS CAN one ESCAPE LANGUAGE/Cultural Illusions, AND TRULY THAT IS an eye of a needle and a VERY large camel for some folks, at least.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk[/youtube]

Last edited by aghogday on 16 Nov 2014, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I tend to think people need to be psychologically poised in a particular manner to be able to look at the human condition in the more abstract and psychological manner. Mind you at the very ground level I know that what most people are carrying around in terms of their conceptual picture of the world is really so much a mirror of themselves and their tabulations up to this point. I get curious though on how a person, whose lets say an absolutely ardent reductive materialist, finds a corner of what they would have believed to be certain needing re-examination or how they might come to the realization that the possibility of universal entity being accepted doesn't mean Christian/Islamic caliphate and a return to the dark ages.

I suppose that's where my focus is right now in any kind of conversation like this - ie. trying to split the web/linguistic barrier as close to the line as I can as well as the materialist/spiritual line. I like the way for instance Paul Foster Case (one of the three authors of Kybalion and originator of BOTA) describes the problem - that ultimately the so-called world of matter is the place where the spiritual and conceptual enters into name and form, that it's really all gradients of the same thing. In that sense what a reductive materialist might see would be entirely correct but for a few turnkey pieces of information which puts that perspective into being a 'tale wagging the dog' type of problem.

Yes, Tech, I agree with your insight here. :)

1) I believe that whether or not there is a deity is independent of whether or not I believe in one.

2) I believe that the deity described in the Book of Numbers chapter 31 is the deity of violent and hideously evil cavemen.

3) I believe that the deity described in the first chapter of Ezekiel is idiotic.

4) I believe that the person described in the books of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John sounds like he was influenced by well-intentioned ideas, but if he had to tell the followers of his god that it's not nice to kick people when they are down, then I doubt that this was the most morally advanced culture of the time-period. Furthermore, it wasn't even fully clear that he was any sort of a prophet, much less a god.

5) I believe that Paul "the Apostle" was a misogynistic twerp, and I would love to go back in time and give him a swift kick in the gonads, shove him face-down in the mud, and stomp on his head until he drowns in it.

6) I believe that whoever wrote the Book of Revelation was tripping some pretty effing hard drugs.

7) I believe that Christians are absolutely to blame for the flight of the philosophers from Greece. During the century or two leading up to the murder of Hypatia, the Gupta Empire in India began entering a "golden age," and I have a strong feeling that the philosophers of Greece were under sufficient stress during the time-period that they just gathered up their scrolls and fled to India.

8) I believe that the Christian emperors were worse tyrants than the ones who came before them. In fact, they ended up outlawing philosophy, which led to a massive intellectual flight to the Sassanids (welcomed by Khosrau the Great) and to the Abbasids. The Roman Empire deteriorated to nothing on their watch. They were violent and incompetent rulers. f**k them.

9) I believe that anyone who, knowing the actual contents of the Bible and the actual history of Christianity, believes that the Christian god is actually divine is a morally bankrupted and evil person. Shame on any such person.

10) I believe that, if someone claims to have any evidence for a "supreme being," then it is incumbent upon that person to present it in a satisfactory manner. I would expect the same of someone who demanded that I believe in wormholes through space or the possibility of faster-than-light travel. I would expect the same of someone who claimed to have been visited by aliens. It would be very nice, or at least interesting, if those other claims were actually genuine, and as far as anyone can tell, they don't necessarily lack feasibility; however, I am not going to jump on-board with believing in those things without actual evidence for them.

I agree with this and the way my mind works I would not believe either unless I had personal real life evidence for what I understand to be God and I personally do not think that anyone else should have to by coercion or force as God is not a human force alone and more specifically God IS NO word(s) Alone.. God IS ALLONE

I remember doing some research on various ecumenical councils of the Catholic church after hearing from various talking heads in the blog radio sphere as well as people I've met that there was reincarnation in Christianity but that it got wiped out by a Catholic church who didn't like it.

Evidence of course was horribly tenuous and it sounds like the closest thing that seemed to be hinted at was the popularity of something that might be reminiscent of higher self or holy guardian angel. At the same time I saw that the constant assassination plots, killing one's political and theological enemies, brand new waves of ambitious theological fighters getting excommunicated only to get brought back in as cardinals and bishops to excommunicate the people who excommunicated them and so on and so on. That really seems to be how purile the climate was.

Also to one of the above posters - one of the worst losses was the progressive burnings of the Library of Alexandria - burned several times once by the Romans, once by Pope Theophilus, and finished by the early waves of Islam. One of the worst aspects of this is that it took centuries to rebuild an understanding of the theosophy that the bible is composed of.

I think I'd have to second the opinions which would suggest that Ezra wrote the OT. It's a weave of Egyptian and Babylonian narratives, it is full of gematria employment which who knows whether that was Egyptian, Babylonian, or just popular in the region as a tool used to keep certain knowledge to certain kinds of people - they did this using the Canaanite alphabet, evolving it, apparently they were a polytheist culture (I'd suppose the seven Elohim were exactly what they were anywhere else - representatives of the 'seven planets' which got distilled down to the days of the week and mention of course in the book of Zachariah as the seven-eyed stone').

Not sure if I really want to go too much farther in slicing/dicing the bible because I'm also not particularly trying to sell it to anyone. It takes an authentic curiosity in the occult basis of the book to start diving off deeply into what might have been meant by putting the four cardinal signs of the zodiac out there in Ezekiel (one can find the Cherubim all over Babylonian art as well) or their re-employment in Revelations, constant zodiacal references every time you get twelve surrounding one, etc. etc..

Overall I'd have to call it part profound wisdom, part political and religious polemic, and the grave danger of taking it all as the inerrant word of God is just what's been said about the OT - if you do that you should kill every man, woman, and child in a city that doesn't worship at the feet of 'I AM' in the very particular context that a literalist mind would grasp.

There seems to be a bit of a psychosis in the direction that if every single letter is not the inerrant word of God that the book is utterly useless, which keeps many Catholics and Protestants declaring the book inscrutable. It goes somewhat with the other side as well if they miss not only great depths of mysticism in some areas but also a great subjective history where one can peer inside the psyche of what was really a snapshot in time and place. The previously mentioned attitudes seem to exist far less because the people involved are intellectually incapable of parsing these things out, just that they seem to feel the need to form diametrically imposed camps. I suppose that's inevitable when people start playing with human rights, hopefully with a few more decades of no 'end of the world' by seven year tribulation not only will this wind down but also the attempts of certain people to take seventy weeks of Daniel, leave 69 of them prior to Augustus Caesar, and then cut and past the last week in some unknown future - it's bible-bending to absurdity and the whole notion that a cosmic game of 'gotcha!' is being played with our eternal souls is like saying that Christ died on the cross and now is trying to figure out how many people can go to hell so he doesn't have to suffer their sins. For anyone who would or would have called God all loving it's a calumny of the worst order and, add to that, it's also a declaration that God stuttered on the seventh day when he declared his creation good (whatever 'a day' would even mean in that sense').

I agree. And great insight and analysis as both are required on the journey to 'TRUTH'.

And there it is. The moment of truth. See, I went and did exactly what you did, made some far-fetched claim based on nothing but self-supported logic, saying "science has proven it", doing everything you have done in this thread thus far, and you can't even refute it. Instead, you ignore it. Wow, way to fall into my trap.

LMAO! Wow, this is too perfect! I pulled the exact same thing you did, and yet you say "I" lost the argument. Seems it is YOU who lost the argument.

And there it is again: yet another admission of defeat Say what you will about "science disproving higher beings", the fact that not even Science agrees with itself says it all.

All I'm seeing is a miserable attempt to jump around my challenge and make yourself feel better by bashing others you believe are wrong. Yes, I said "believe" because you still have yet to prove it. "Look it up on NASA's site" is just about the same thing as "google it yourself". The burden of proof is on you to back up your claims, and you have still yet to do so!

So more to the point, I posted my challenge in a new thread here. You are more than welcome to take part in it, but I'm officially focusing on that thread only since you are turning this into a purebred flame war. If you wish to cite the proof I have repeatedly asked for, go ahead and do it in the new thread. Until then, your arguments are wholly invalid.

Shep out.

You lost this argument long ago my friend I listed sources you refused to look them up instead it got to you to the point that you had to make a thread in reaction to my thread and now not only I but many others are tearing apart your claim that there is a god, lets not forget that religions were made based on others so in a sense god is made up.

Otaku to be fair, you're listing Youtube videos and militant atheist websites, so I wouldn't say they are the most credible.

Seriously dude, just deal with the fact that some people believe in God and others like yourself don't. It's not a hard concept, it's called understanding and not judging or making fun of someone for that.

I believe God exists, but I don't believe He is worth the revere, worship, or humble submission. He screwed me up, along with many others and He doesn't care.

He is just as bad as Satan.

Im not making fun of the people just the entire concept of some magical man with a beard in the sky whos invisible because hes chickenshit and scared to show himself and not leaving any traces of his existence as well as skyfairies who also seem imaginary, its all made up its a religion and not reality a religion made up from other religions which died out.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]

Literally none of those things pertain to what the vast majority of Christians believe. The Christian religion has nothing to do with a bearded sky daddy, fairies, or God being invisible. Projection my friend, projection.

If all people were created in his image then howcome he allowed people with disabilities to be born and some horribly deformed if that's the case then god has a deformed face.

Well let's get started then:

1. וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאָדָם בְּצַלְמוֹ, בְּצֶלֶם אֱלֹהִים בָּרָא אֹתוֹ: זָכָר וּנְקֵבָה, בָּרָא אֹתָם.

?ō·ṯām. bā·rā ū·nə·qê·ḇāh zā·ḵār ?ō·ṯōw; bā·rā ?ĕ·lō·hîm bə·ṣe·lem bə·ṣal·mōw,

Before it's translated into English grammar: them he created and female male them he created of God in the image in His own image.

Chapter 1, verse 27: And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

Now let's look at three key words used here: elohim, beselem, and besalmow. Elohim was a descriptive name given for God which means "one who holds dominion". Beselem means "a representation of". Besalmow means "a representation of the aforementioned". Now what does this mean? What it means is that what we are a representation of is explicitly what elohim is a descriptor of. Because we as a species have dominion over our environment, that makes us moral actors.

Last edited by Lukecash12 on 19 Nov 2014, 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

We all look different but yet are supposed to be gods image and yet were are descendants of apes and shared a common ancestor with them if this is the case then god is an ape if he exists that is which is highly unlikely.