Why does God allow pain and suffering?

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I'll just say it: this whole post is flat-out wrong. "Existence of an afterlife" comes straight out of their own beliefs. See here for an example:
There's a whole page on proving that point wrong. And that's just the first one I Googled quite honestly.

And for the "free will doesn't exist" point, that's just downright silly

You either did not understand what I wrote or you did not read what you linked to.

Does a thrown ball have free will?

I did both. Doesn't change anything though. More quotes from that page:



Jews believe in the afterlife too. They may call it something different, but they still believe in it.

Are you calling yourself a thrown ball? I don't know about you, but I consider myself a human, so...

So you didn't read "It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected", which directly contradicts your assertion that it is flat out wrong that many Jews reject the idea of heaven?


Like a thrown ball, human bodies behave according to the laws of physics. We are bound by cause and effect. We have no choice in what we will ultimately do because factors from before we were born mean we will inevitably act in a certain way, just like a thrown ball.

Furthermore, it seems you believe in a god. If an omniscient god exists, he already knows what we are going to do. Again, we have no choice, no freedom - we cannot behave differently to how this god knew we would at the creation of the universe.

Thank you for your guidance oh glorious self-appointed thread moderator.

OP asked why 'god' behaves a certain way. Non-existence is a perfect explanation.

Well there most definitely IS Relative Free WILL.. Definitely a gift from GOD aka YES.. ALL THAT IS.. I have it NOW and at least for me.. IT aka God does Co-create amazing things in my life THAT I have irrefutable evidence for ..! Hope you attain IT one day soon! :) No membership in any religion required as God IS an EEO 'employer'...!

if there is free will, it has not touched me, except as a backhand.

For a long time i FELT the same way..

But never the less i knew tHere IS

NO escaping the force of GOD

That part is grace.. i guess...

A gift for sure...:)

And what i find now IS..

Working with GOD.. AND understanding the gift that CAN be Human Nature..

IS Co-Creating WITH GOD.. BUT it requires looking within.. finding natural instinct and intuition.

And IT IS NO gift that culture and or religion alone can give one to find and BE with ALLONE aka GOD too...

IT IS ALL NATURAL BUT WITHIN OUR GRASP IF WE NEVER EVER GIVE UP SEEKING IT AND
YES WORKING WITH IT AKA GOD.. INSTEAD OF AGAINST GOD.. BUT THAT PART IS UP TO
EACH INDIVIDUAL IF AND WHEN THEY FIND THEIR OWN TRUE AKA RELATIVE FREE WILL....

This is not something easy to put into words.. as truly before i found IT aka GOD for ALL relative intents and purposes..

GOD did not exist....EVEN though I knew then.. logically GOD does exist....

GOD IS A GIFT TOO IN TRUE HUMAN EFFECT AND AFFECT WHEN EXPERIENCED.. FOR THOSE THAT FIND A
PATH THAT WORKS...
AND THE BEST ONE I KNOW NOW..

FOR SURE..:)

IS my personal path and journey to live and co-create with GOD in my life.. every now of every now..

It truly is why I'm fearless..now.. there is no need for fear of death or anything else other than innate natural fears..

when one truly FULLY walks with GOD....

I have zero doubt that GOD exists.. GOD evidences GOD's existence to me NOW 100%...

MY FAITH IS UNBREAKABLE.. even if i lOSE THE FEELING OF GOD IN MY LIFE AGAIN.. AS my faith was unbreakable even when I could not FEEL GOD and only recognized the logical sense of GOD's existence....

MBoura, your referral to a website has been removed since posting solely for promotion is against the rules, and likewise subsequent posts containing the same referral.

God allows pain and suffering, (evil] on Earth because that is the human condition. In this biological form, suffering is inescapable. To get rid of evil he would have to get rid of us. He's tried before, maybe he will again.

It is also possible for a Lutheran to believe the same thing. Doesn't mean it's in accordance with their religious doctrine though.

Ah, I see what you're getting at now. Especially after reading this next bit: I'll be honest here: I cannot refute this point, and actually have to partially agree with it! It is in fact written that God knows everything we are going to do before we do it. I can't explain how this is possible without your "cause and effect" coming into play, particularly if you want to get into Chaos Theory etc. etc., but anyways, I will say this: just because God knows what the result of every single one of your actions will be doesn't mean that you should live like it's all been determined for you.

Not really. OP also stated this:He was asking for clarification, not for someone to tell him his beliefs are invalid.

(As for the moderator comment, care to speak to this next guy?)
Duly noted. Seemed like a gray area since it was technically on-topic, but good to know how to handle it in the future

Because there is no one in control, and raw energy, and crude forces of nature are in control of our lives. not a sentient creature. since that's a harsh idea to take, most people prefer a comfortable notion that everything is bubble wrapped and safe, and organized. the idea that there is no point to our lives, that the entire billions of years of animal evolution has been suffering for nothing is an extremely disappointing and depressing truth. the idea that one wrong gene in evolutions sphere and it could host an entire race of sentience that experiences and has experienced nothing but suffering is intensely disturbing and nature wouldn't care as long as it reproduces effectively and the genes spread.. I think once you reach this level of intelligence of life in the way it is now you understand inherently what's going on around you its like a child who's outgrown tick tak to. I don't think sentience is acceptable anyone who would invent it like say a god is a sadist.

as far as i can see, there are 3 options for wars/suffering to exist:

1) god doesn't exist
quite obvious really, if he isn't real, he is in no position to allow/disallow anything really

2) god isn't omnipotent
if a god of some denomination exists, he might not be able to fix wars, perhaps our free will is too strong for him to overrule, being able to only give hints that he is pissed, but unable to take any active measures.

3) god is a d*ck
final option, assuming i'm wrong on both #1 and #2, that is, there is a god, and he is able to fix suffering, there is only one option left: he doesn't care and/or likes to see us suffer, much like a 10-year old playing "the sims"


in either case, i see no reason to follow him, let alone worship, assuming i even believe in him, becouse in the best case scenario (from the church' PoV), he is a jerk that doesn't deserve worship

Thank you someone who understands of course an easier scenario is number 1 i go for although people get mad at me when I mention 2 and esspecially number 3 its kind of similar to when you have to tell the children that there is no easter bunny santa clause or tooth fairy and that they are all made up.

Those who believe in a god will tell you he is good, pure, etc. and then 'explain' bad things that happen by telling us that god has some sort of higher purpose for the greater good that we are not privy to or could not understand, or will blame our own shortcomings - i.e. we failed to pray enough, we didn't behave with enough morality, we angered him etc. And then of course there is the other issue of what happens when people's prayers are at odds with one another - take this quote from Abraham Lincoln's 2nd Innaugural Address, speaking of the American Civil War: "Both [sides] read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. {...} The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him?"

Because she is weak or she is a sadist....I'm not really sure. I can relate to your desire to understand the world and suffering.

Perhaps if you ask her really nicely, she will talk inside your head and justify her apparent negligence.
If she does explain, please let me know.
Thanks.