How many of you are adults and have never had a girlfriend?

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Yeah, I know how that goes. My friends say basically the same thing. I don't even get turned on by people unless there is an emotional connection. I can count on 1 hand the number of people I've ever felt that for and they didn't feel it for me. Besides, all of the effort and energy that goes into building that up...

I'd rather stay home and watch movies.

Then how exactly does one "get a move on"?

If it were that simple, then many of us would be over on the "philosophy" forum...

You've got a point and, like usual, you're right.

I guess I'm prodding the people who claim they aren't even aroused by someone unless there's an emotional connection. That's just not going to start any fires for her. Speaking for the entire hetero side of my gender for a moment*, women want to feel like YOU want THEM. If they feel like you could take or leave them, they'd prefer to just leave. They don't want to audition and prove themselves worthy of your affection. I mean, can you imagine taking the step to emotionally invest in someone only to have them still decide you aren't worth their emotional invest or affection? That's crap. So, in a way, a man has to be sexually attracted before there's an emotional connection for there to be an emotional connection. This is true even for people who wait until marriage to have sex. They still have desire for each other and many "close calls" before that wedding night!

For you, Grisha, I think you've been a gentleman and I'm not going to interfere with the manners that your mama gave you. You're out there and dating, and I don't think your interests in women are discriminating enough to hinder you continuing to get dates and make these connections but that you've got respect enough for her and yourself not to cheapen the experience into a fling. Every time you have a first date, even if she declines a second date, you've left the door open and one of these women may rethink a second date and come back. I think it's a matter of time before you happen upon the right woman. And I still support the advice given to you by someone else that a slight change up in wardrobe to play up your rough edges would do some good... even if you just consider it an exercise in role playing for an evening. So, with you specifically, I say you're getting a move on.

* All my generalizations are very eager to concede to the exceptions that stand to debunk them.

QFT.

I want to feel like i'm their everything - not just someone to fill the gap.

I certainly (think) I understand your point. In my case, it's not so much a question of "manners" but my utter inability to understand what is appropriate and what is not in a particular situation.

It's like trying to play the piano with boxing gloves on - it leads to extreme conservatism on my part for fear I will do something wrong, not exactly conducive to "sweeping a woman off her feet" I'm afraid.

In the rather infrequent romantic success I've had in the past, it has always been a "slow build" - with someone who gets to know me long enough to understand that their first impressions of me were almost entirely wrong and they decide they like the "real" me. Very difficult to get to this point in the "instant gratification" culture of online dating and the limited social opportunities at my age.

I am FAR from admitting defeat though!



OK, I give in - maybe you could select the best look for me?

[img][800:590]http://www.stonewallvets.org/images/TheVillagePeople.jpg[/img]

police man!

cowboy!

Mister, you said a mouthful!

And I'm afraid I'm going to have to vote for the naval officer look.

Are you talking about me? Well, I am a lesbian so not looking for a man anyways. I wish I could change the way I am and feel more connected to people, but I just don't. And when you don't feel connected to folks of course you aren't gonna wanna get naked with them and touch all over them or vice versa.

Interesting thing to bring up. I think something happens though to guys who've been repeatedly stabbed by life though. One other poster mentioned having a lot of girls interested and they'd start the conversation and like clockwork they'd disappear - I had the same experience, even with some very popular and attractive girls, and its not like it happened once or twice but incessantly, particularly any time I changed social situations and people didn't know me yet. The funny thing was I would show interest, I would even initiate often enough - who I was just didn't work for people. Take that to my mid 20's after I'd had my huge internal NT reformation and forced myself to stomp out as much of my weirdness as I could as well as not let anyone get the better of me, I started at a restaurant when I was 20 and worked there though college - had a new girl interested every month, every time I'd try to approach them in conversation in what I thought was a cool/dignified manner - didn't work, they hated it and gave me a scorned reaction. It would be either that, or like another member said I looked very youthful and wholesome - they wanted a church boy not a raver - so they created my identity before they'd talk to me and when I tried to redirect them to the real me it didn't compute.

After all of that I'm really trying to get myself back to being excited about women but its difficult. Kind of like war adrenaline does something to veterans, there's only so much jarring your brain chemistry can take from experience before certain things start to wear out and your ability to go back starts shutting down. I think at this point in my life its just what you said - I'm too independent, want someone in my life but apparently I need someone who's equally independent and INTJ to myself, who would love to have a mutual growth, trust, and love relationship but have it based on how well we fit each other and let what we have on that be why we need, want, or gravitate toward each other rather than having the basis right in the first ten seconds necessarily be an erection. While I do have standards on looks and its true that women who I'm attracted to do wonderful things for me internally - if you've been stabbed enough to where your circuitry of acting on that has been burned out - you're in a bind for showing it (at least sufficiently to their liking) and a unique one at that where next to no one will have any advice that can help.

Even on OkCupid right now though I'm seeing that I get no responses and part of it is - I'm being clever, conversational, but at the same time my writing might seem more platonic and hormone-dry? Is it supposed to be more 'Hey! I think your H-A-W-T!' than 'Hey! Neat profile, I can relate to x, y, and z'? I'd love to fix it but between life and work stress already it feels like my nervous system's waving a white flag.

Not rude at all

There are actually a lot of women (dunno how it is for trans people lookking for guys though, I'm guessing guys would be less likely to ?) who are open to it. Online anyway. For example I've always mentioned it in my okcupid profile, but I've had plenty of girls on there message me before. IRL I would never approach a woman though as I'd assume she wouldn't be ok with it. Obviously on the internet it's easier to find certai kinds of people, whereas most women I meet IRL would likely not want someone in my position (which is understandable, I'm definitely not resentful about that or anything lol)

This is the main reason I wish pansexuality was more heard of. Most bi people (although more liekly to be ok with a trans bf/gf probably) aren't going to want a pre-op transguy. Whereas if you know a girl's pansexual then you know you at least stand the same kinda chance that a straight guy would have around a straight woman for example

If that makes sense. Dunno if I explained myself well or no

^That's all related to dating/relationships though. When it comes to just random people I haven't had any major abuse before IRL, just stupid comments. Online I do get a lot of s**t, but usually from a minority of people. i think the majority of people are ok with trans people as long as they're not directly affected by it (ie if their son/daughter tells them they're trans)

I think that was a great way to explain the situation to people who live in a heteronormative mindset.

This is something I always said whenever people asked about how to get success on a dating site or what to include in a message

A lot of guys just send generic messages to any girls who are within their age range and in their area and then wonder why they don't get replies

I would only try anything with a girl if I actually liked HER, rather than trying to just get a girl, regardless of who it is

Thanks. I mean obviously just knowing that a girl is pansexual or has liked a transguy before doesn't make me assume she will automatically like me It just puts me in the position that most guys are in when they're around a straight girl

It did make perfect sense. Thank you for the thoughtful response. I have only heard of pansexuality here on WP, so it must be fairly unheard of out in the world. I hadn't understood the purpose of having the label before. It has probably been said in threads here, but I don't read a lot of the sex-based threads. I also hadn't given much thought to why a label like "pansexual" would be necessary, but now that you say it, it seems quite obvious. I'm sure it would be very helpful if people were familiar with this term. Maybe they will become more aware of it over time.

And I'm very glad to hear you don't get much abuse for it. I wonder if a transgendered woman (a person born male who identifies as female, I mean to say) would be likely to get more abuse for it.

I would think it is a lot harder for them as it's harder for them to pass as female (usually) but also more obvious that they ARE dressing female. I mean if you saw a guy walking down the street in jeans and a hoodie, then realised they looked female, they'd just think it was a boyish girl/lesbian etc, but obviously it's unusual for a male to wear women's clothes in public so thhey'd stand out

I also think they are more likely to get abuse because it can look ridiculous sometimes. And I don't mean that in an offensive way towards trans women, it's just how it is - if they don't do it properly then someone with male features is running a pretty big risk of just looking like a drag queen or something.

And I have only heard of pansexuality online as well. I guess it is rare really so not surprising that it's quite unheard of