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aghogday
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silvervarg wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Completly unreadable post.

Fix your quotes please, I'm not even going to begin decrypting that thing.


What was it that you weren't able to read?

All the quotes are identified with an author except for my quotes that you didn't identify with an author from the previous posts, that you responded to.

All your quotes are labeled as they were from the previous posts, and my answers to those quotes are identified labeled with my username.



aghogday wrote:
The entire demographic of individuals that are measured in the US, the 1 in 88, are 8 year old children in classes for the developmentally disabled. Thirty eight percent of whom are measured as having intellectual disabilities. 80% of individuals with autism spectrum disorders are evidenced as needing support from families or society to survive and 90% are evidenced not to be able to maintain steady employment. The issue of any potential advantage for any one person in logical thinking does not play into these statistics of disability in functioning in life, for the majority of individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders, measured as such.

You may be the most logically thinking person to walk the earth, however that does not diminish the disabilities of millions of individuals in the world diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders.


Silvervarg wrote:
Irrelevant for the mere reason that if you fill all the lower ends of the criterias (which are not even consistent, it all comes down to the doctor) you'll be labeled as having a disability, no matter what acctual problems you have.


aghogday wrote:
If one is not identified as having an impairment in a major area of life functioning as a result of the impairments identified in each criteria one does not receive a diagnosis at all. It is a mandatory requirement to receive a diagnosis.

In the new DSM5 revised criteria one must be impaired and limited in everyday life functioning as a result of the impairments identified in each criteria to receive a diagnosis. One is not diagnosed if they show no signs of disability in life functioning as a result of the impairments described in the criteria.


Quote:
I've provided third party evidence that decisions are based and influenced on emotion in human beings, including those individuals that are understood to have the shallowest of external emotion, psychopaths; you have provided no third party evidence to the contrary.


Silvervarg wrote:
Feel free to quote me where I stated such opinion, I sure can't find it.


aghogday wrote:
That was my point on logic and emotions, not your opinion. You provided no evidence to refute it.


Quote:
All forms of professionally diagnosed autism spectrum disorders are considered inherently disabling due to limits in brain function, per medical and legal definition. The impairments resulting from limits of brain functioning are impairments in social interaction, social communication, and repetitive stereotypical behaviors and interests. If one does not meet the required criteria for these disabling impairments, that lead to actual limits in functioning in life one does not meet the requirement for a professional diagnosis. The only place that the criteria for autism exists, is in diagnositic manuals created by the psychiatric profession, that created the term autism and Aspergers to describe behavior in human beings that results from limits in brain functioning. Without an understanding of the diagnostic criteria for autism spectrum disorders, there is no way to determine if someone has the condition.


Silvervarg wrote:
Percived disabilities are the product of the beholder from their view of the surroundings. Without understanding this no one can break free from the notion.


aghogday wrote:
Per my quote above, no one is professionally diagnosed with an ASD, unless they meet the criteria established by psychiatrists, whom invented the labels of autism spectrum disorders to describe a group of symptoms the psychiatrists identified in the general population. If one is not disabled by the condition in life functioning one does not receive a diagnosis.

The broader autism phenotype is suggested to extend out as far as 30% of the population; if one is not disabled by their symptoms in life functioning, that is where they fit, beyond the mandatory criteria for actual diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders.


Quote:
ASD's do not exist without the criteria.


Silvervarg wrote:
This is incorrect, existens is not based on the surroundings ability to describe it. Spectrumites where around before the word came into existance, they where just not recognized as a related group. (Or what ever you want to call it.)


aghogday wrote:
The symptoms have likely always existed, similiar ones are identified in mice, but without the label provided by the psychiatric profession there is no defined disorder or condition; one would be referred to as whatever society as a whole determines for unusual behavior with pejoratives like nerd, spaz, geek.

Unfortunately the term Aspergers has become a perjorative as well in many areas of society. Using the term "NT", is tit for tat for some in describing the rest of society, that is neither normal or consistent in either neurology or behavior. The effect of the process of neuroplasticity is evidenced to create changes in neurology that vary, per every individual in the population.


Quote:
An analysis of the "NT world" as you define it, is at best a guess, because there is no way to know for sure who isn't diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders in the general population. There is no requirement for anyone to disclose it.


Silvervarg wrote:
I can't really decide if I should mock this or view it as a genuine (although horribly stu... strange) argument and respond.
You just said that everyone I've ever met could have been on the spectrum and there for my experience counts for nothing...


aghogday wrote:
No, I just said an analysis of whom isn't diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders "NT's", is at best a guess, because there is no way for sure to know who isn't diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder


Quote:
While the term "NT" can be used to describe non-autistic in a rhetorical conversation to describe those that are not labeled with a diagnosis, there is no scientific evidence of typical neurology in the general population.


Silvervarg wrote:
What? Do you really mean no one has ever taken the time to scan atleast 50% (or more untill a norm pattern could be found) of the worlds population? Man, scientists are getting sloppy aren't they...


aghogday wrote:
No they haven't, atypical neurology in autism is not even posible to consistently identify with a brain scan".

And, it is not possible to identify the specific changes in neurology that occur on a day to day basis per the proces of neuroplasticity, however the long term impacts of the process of neuroplasticity and the changes that occur in brain structure have been identified through MRI's.

All humans are succeptible to these neurological changes through the process of neuroplasticity depending on genetic and environmental factors. In fact, some of the measured changes in behavior associated with these changes in neurology through the process of neuroplasticity have been associated with behaviors in human beings simliar to clinical features associated with ASD's.


Quote:
Many people now use the term "NT" to describe those who are not neurodiverse, within the moving target of what defines neurodiverse, also an invented word that has no clearly defined meaning.


Silvervarg wrote:
I must again thank you for this random information.


aghogday wrote:
Your welcome, the point is that your definition of NT, is no longer the norm that it was in the Online Community several years ago.


Quote:
That was my point on the evidenced 30 percent of the population that has traits of autism, however you as everyone else has a right to define the terms "NT" or "neurodiverse" however they want to, because they are not clearly defined terms, that even exist in dictionaries.


Silvervarg wrote:
I still see no point.
And please stop writing every single sentence seperatly, I can baraly make heads or tails of what you're trying to say when you chop it up.


aghogday wrote:
It is specifically related to the previous point, of how pervasive atypical neurology moves out into the general population, if one considers atypical neurology to be the source of autistic traits.

And, autistic traits are the tip of the iceberg, introverts are actually evidenced in brain scans as having structural differences in neurology, per the pleasure centers of the brain as the relate to dopamine sensitivity. The process of neuroplasticity makes typical neurology impossible, per any human being.

I would write much longer paragraphs, however many people no longer have the patience to read more than two or three lines at a time; that is a cultural wide phenomenon, not an autistic specific one. It is also evidenced as a result of the process of neuroplasticity.

As a result of continous short bursts of information stimuli in culture, human neurology has changed through the process of neuroplasticity to adapt to this environmental change. The result is evidenced lower attention span. More than three lines at a time results in discomfort for many in the population.

And more than three, three sentence paragraphs result in discomfort for many as well. I far exceed that limit in potentially providing discomfort to others, but that is part of my behavior as one diagnosed with an ASD.

I feel free to indulge in it here on this site, but I usually can manage a three or four line limit for a paragraph.
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Janissy
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

androbot2084 wrote:
One of our greatest tragedies is that neurotypical doctors refuse to prescribe i-pad communication devices for autistics who are unable to communicate. Even though there is a mountain of evidence, neurotypicals only go by what is socially acceptable.


Doctors can't prescribe what won't be paid for by insurance companies. Insurance companies will refuse to pay for as much as they can possibly get away with. Doctors run up against this problem all the time and find themselves unable to give patients the best and most cutting edge treatments and technologies because the insurance companies won't pay for it.

The good news is that several organizations have stepped up to provide non-verbal autistic people with ipads. My daughter goes to a school for autistic children and the school received many ipads for the kids to use by one of these organizations. Non-verbal kids were given ipads to keep and use at home. She is verbal and so didn't need it. I will pay for an ipad myself if she wants one (which she currently doesn't, equating its' use with school and boring math apps which she doesn't want to do at home).

The lack of ipads for all non-verbal autistic people has nothing to do with social acceptability and everything to do with cost. An ipad costs lots of money and insurance companies simply won't pay for it given that PECS boards have a negligable cost. Don't blame the doctors.
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androbot2084
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pec boards are a joke. The pictures end up getting scattered and a single picture is not as descriptive as layers of menus can be. But neurotypical speech therapists love to invent excuses as why I-pads don't work selling parents on the idea that a retarded autistic child simply cannot understand complex computer technology.
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Janissy
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

androbot2084 wrote:
Pec boards are a joke. The pictures end up getting scattered and a single picture is not as descriptive as layers of menus can be. But neurotypical speech therapists love to invent excuses as why I-pads don't work selling parents on the idea that a retarded autistic child simply cannot understand complex computer technology.


The speech therapists I have met or read about absolutely love the ipad apps for clients with autism. The only thing standing in their way is a lack of ipads for all.

http://www.autismpluggedin.com/2011/10/speech-therapists-favorite-apps-for-children-on-the-spectrum.html


I have not met any speech therapists like the ones you describe. Obviously I haven't met all speech therpists, but the ones I have met seem very excited about the ipad and these apps are apparently what everybody is talking about at the conferences speech therapists go to. I think this negativity you speak of is not very common.


Last edited by Janissy on Tue May 08, 2012 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Silvervarg
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well now you've really lost me...because from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said about aspies being more logical than neurotypicals as well as the basis of the OP.

Please make up your mind because you're really not consistent.
Sweetleaf wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I was not contridicting anything you said there.

... from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said...


Quote:
Quote:
I think we have different definitions of the word "interesting".

Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.

Level of intencity in the feeling, if I say I'm interested in something it means I'll learn anything I can about it, otherwise I'd say I was curious about whatever it is. Apparently this is not the case with you, you use interested much more mildly, thus our definitions differ.

Quote:
People go along with things they don't identify with all the time........so I feel my point still stands that having AS does not necessarily make one less likely to follow mob mentality when given the chance.

Example please? Because last time I checked sport arenas where packed with people painting their faces, protest rallies with chants and signs, people following dress codes to the letter, etc^99999.

Quote:
Or maybe they just don't want to....I can imagine the long hair some bikers have would be pretty uncomfortable in a helmet on a hot day so I imagine there are lots of reasons a biker might not want to wear a helmet that have nothing to do with social acceptance. I think its stupid that it's a law personally........I mean its not like not wearing one ensures you're going to die of a head injury that's only a risk if you fall or get hit and even with a helmet one could still be screwed anyways.

Maybe they should require helmets for walking across the street since people have died from getting hit by cars and the resulting head injuries.

... You're kidding right? You do realise that a fall from a the equvilent hight of someone sitting on a chair is enough to kill someone if the head strikes the ground with full force. My mother used to work for the department in charge of roads and safty and was personaly involved in the Zero Vision (no one should die in trafic accidents), helmets saves thousands around the world. And thousands more would have been saved if they'd worn helmets.
And the argument itself is truely ignorant since the base element is "It will only save you if something happens...".

Janissy wrote:
People (both NT and AS) use a mix of emotion and logic to make decisions. There will be outliers such as brain injured people who have lost the ability to use emotion to help with decisions or some people with severly impaired impulse control who have lost (or never had) the ability to control emotion-based decisions. I am not including some mentally ill people who make decisions that look illogical to the majority (such as psychotic people making illusion-based decisions) because those decisions still use logic as well as emotion.

Sadly I don't remeber the name of the ones doing this study, but it was a very simple one, they told people they where making a new eye controled computor and asked them to try the mouse pointer, it would follow their eye movement, I don't know how many exactly where very happy with the technology, but enough for the test to be considered a success, since the mouse pointer was controled by a hidden person and not the test subjects. If you're interested in reading it I can try and find it.
And since I consider the act (I expressed this earlier, but we sliped back into mind process only) a part of the decision.
Or to simplyfy: Choosing the less logical option is not logical, even if it was logical on its own.

Quote:
I have bought lottery tickets from time to time. I know that it is statistically unlikely I will win any drawing I enter. I also know that it is fun to indulge in the anticipation of the big drawing and I can well afford the small price of a ticket so long as I don't make a habit of it. That's an example of using a combination of logic and emotion to make a decision. To somebody who doesn't get any enjoyment from the anticipation of the drawing, it will seem illogical. But what I have actually done is make a cost-benefit analysis which factors in the cost (1$ now and then) as being worth the benefit (enjoyment of the anticipation) and cost benefit analyses are very logical ways to make decisions.

The person who truly does no cost-benefit analysis and spends money they can't afford or acts as though the money had already been won (instead of accepting it almost certainly won't be) is not being logical. The person in your example may be doing that. But they may also just be playing making a perfectly logical decision to exchange 1$ for the light entertainment of anticipation.

I'm afraid I failed a bit with the example, the point was not them buying a ticket in general, but chosing a specific ticket because of their "instincts" or what ever they want to call it, instead of chosing a statisticly safer option.

Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.
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aghogday
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silvervarg wrote:
[Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.


Suit yourself, I feel confident I provided more than enough evidence to refute your assertion/claim that autism is labeled as a disability because autistics are more logical than the rest of the population.


Last edited by aghogday on Wed May 09, 2012 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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vermontsavant
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silvervarg wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well now you've really lost me...because from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said about aspies being more logical than neurotypicals as well as the basis of the OP.

Please make up your mind because you're really not consistent.
Sweetleaf wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I was not contridicting anything you said there.

... from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said...


Quote:
Quote:
I think we have different definitions of the word "interesting".

Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.

Level of intencity in the feeling, if I say I'm interested in something it means I'll learn anything I can about it, otherwise I'd say I was curious about whatever it is. Apparently this is not the case with you, you use interested much more mildly, thus our definitions differ.

Quote:
People go along with things they don't identify with all the time........so I feel my point still stands that having AS does not necessarily make one less likely to follow mob mentality when given the chance.

Example please? Because last time I checked sport arenas where packed with people painting their faces, protest rallies with chants and signs, people following dress codes to the letter, etc^99999.

Quote:
Or maybe they just don't want to....I can imagine the long hair some bikers have would be pretty uncomfortable in a helmet on a hot day so I imagine there are lots of reasons a biker might not want to wear a helmet that have nothing to do with social acceptance. I think its stupid that it's a law personally........I mean its not like not wearing one ensures you're going to die of a head injury that's only a risk if you fall or get hit and even with a helmet one could still be screwed anyways.

Maybe they should require helmets for walking across the street since people have died from getting hit by cars and the resulting head injuries.

... You're kidding right? You do realise that a fall from a the equvilent hight of someone sitting on a chair is enough to kill someone if the head strikes the ground with full force. My mother used to work for the department in charge of roads and safty and was personaly involved in the Zero Vision (no one should die in trafic accidents), helmets saves thousands around the world. And thousands more would have been saved if they'd worn helmets.
And the argument itself is truely ignorant since the base element is "It will only save you if something happens...".

Janissy wrote:
People (both NT and AS) use a mix of emotion and logic to make decisions. There will be outliers such as brain injured people who have lost the ability to use emotion to help with decisions or some people with severly impaired impulse control who have lost (or never had) the ability to control emotion-based decisions. I am not including some mentally ill people who make decisions that look illogical to the majority (such as psychotic people making illusion-based decisions) because those decisions still use logic as well as emotion.

Sadly I don't remeber the name of the ones doing this study, but it was a very simple one, they told people they where making a new eye controled computor and asked them to try the mouse pointer, it would follow their eye movement, I don't know how many exactly where very happy with the technology, but enough for the test to be considered a success, since the mouse pointer was controled by a hidden person and not the test subjects. If you're interested in reading it I can try and find it.
And since I consider the act (I expressed this earlier, but we sliped back into mind process only) a part of the decision.
Or to simplyfy: Choosing the less logical option is not logical, even if it was logical on its own.

Quote:
I have bought lottery tickets from time to time. I know that it is statistically unlikely I will win any drawing I enter. I also know that it is fun to indulge in the anticipation of the big drawing and I can well afford the small price of a ticket so long as I don't make a habit of it. That's an example of using a combination of logic and emotion to make a decision. To somebody who doesn't get any enjoyment from the anticipation of the drawing, it will seem illogical. But what I have actually done is make a cost-benefit analysis which factors in the cost (1$ now and then) as being worth the benefit (enjoyment of the anticipation) and cost benefit analyses are very logical ways to make decisions.

The person who truly does no cost-benefit analysis and spends money they can't afford or acts as though the money had already been won (instead of accepting it almost certainly won't be) is not being logical. The person in your example may be doing that. But they may also just be playing making a perfectly logical decision to exchange 1$ for the light entertainment of anticipation.

I'm afraid I failed a bit with the example, the point was not them buying a ticket in general, but chosing a specific ticket because of their "instincts" or what ever they want to call it, instead of chosing a statisticly safer option.

Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.
are you realy so sure that it was your signature that got you banned
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vermontsavant
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aghogday wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
[Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.


Suit yourself, I feel confident I provided more than enough evidence to refute your assertion claim that autism is labeled as a disability because autistics are more logical than the rest of the population.
autistics ARE more logical than the rest of the population because the vollume on there senses is turned up so high and this causes constant hypnosis.this constent hypnosis causes endorphines in the brain to go off constantly causing the autistic to become disconected from ones own body sensations and emotions.
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aghogday
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vermontsavant wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
[Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.


Suit yourself, I feel confident I provided more than enough evidence to refute your assertion/claim that autism is labeled as a disability because autistics are more logical than the rest of the population.
autistics ARE more logical than the rest of the population because the vollume on there senses is turned up so high and this causes constant hypnosis.this constent hypnosis causes endorphines in the brain to go off constantly causing the autistic to become disconected from ones own body sensations and emotions.


Alexithymia has been measured as a co-morbid condition in up to 85% of individuals with Alexithymia. This can be a disabling emotional condition, in itself. However, complete lack of emotion is evidenced by science to make it more difficult to make rational/logical decisions, not easier.

So, in general problems with emotions are evidenced higher among the autistic population that the rest of the population, but problems with emotions don't necessarily equal rational or logical decisions in life.

Some autistic individuals report experiencing very strong emotions, so it is dependent on the individual and the circumstances as to how their emotions impact their lives. And, some autistic individuals are hypo-sensitive to environmental stimuli rather than hyper-sensitive. That too is dependent on individual and circumstance.

I'm not questioning how you as an individual experience autism as you describe it above, but sensory integration problems and emotional difficulties vary greatly among those diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders. As well, as an autistic individuals ability to make rational/logical descisions in life. Some of those that are more severely impacted by the condition have difficulties in making decisions as they relate to basic self-care behaviors.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silvervarg wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well now you've really lost me...because from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said about aspies being more logical than neurotypicals as well as the basis of the OP.

Please make up your mind because you're really not consistent.
Sweetleaf wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I was not contridicting anything you said there.

... from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said...


Confused

Quote:
Quote:
I think we have different definitions of the word "interesting".

Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.

Level of intencity in the feeling, if I say I'm interested in something it means I'll learn anything I can about it, otherwise I'd say I was curious about whatever it is. Apparently this is not the case with you, you use interested much more mildly, thus our definitions differ.

I do learn everything I can about things I am interested in, that does not mean this knowledge necessarily gets me anywhere in life.

Quote:
People go along with things they don't identify with all the time........so I feel my point still stands that having AS does not necessarily make one less likely to follow mob mentality when given the chance.

Example please? Because last time I checked sport arenas where packed with people painting their faces, protest rallies with chants and signs, people following dress codes to the letter, etc^99999.

There are never people with AS or Autism at sort arenas and protest rallies?

Quote:
Or maybe they just don't want to....I can imagine the long hair some bikers have would be pretty uncomfortable in a helmet on a hot day so I imagine there are lots of reasons a biker might not want to wear a helmet that have nothing to do with social acceptance. I think its stupid that it's a law personally........I mean its not like not wearing one ensures you're going to die of a head injury that's only a risk if you fall or get hit and even with a helmet one could still be screwed anyways.

Maybe they should require helmets for walking across the street since people have died from getting hit by cars and the resulting head injuries.

... You're kidding right? You do realise that a fall from a the equvilent hight of someone sitting on a chair is enough to kill someone if the head strikes the ground with full force. My mother used to work for the department in charge of roads and safty and was personaly involved in the Zero Vision (no one should die in trafic accidents), helmets saves thousands around the world. And thousands more would have been saved if they'd worn helmets.
And the argument itself is truely ignorant since the base element is "It will only save you if something happens...".


Kidding about what, and that is 'if' the head strikes the ground with full force........speaking of which I probably should have been wearing a helmet the one night I was drinking and fell out of a chair straight on my face to wake up wondering why I had a swollen lip(which I assumed was a cold sore) and bump on my head.

Also I don't see what is ignorant about a fact....I mean how does a helmet save someone if they never suffer a fall where they hit their head? One other thought it is possible even with a helmet someone could get a brain injury that might make their life terrible.....maybe without the helmet the would have just died and not had to live in misery..........morbid, but when making laws I think all relevant points should be considered.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vermontsavant wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
[Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.


Suit yourself, I feel confident I provided more than enough evidence to refute your assertion claim that autism is labeled as a disability because autistics are more logical than the rest of the population.
autistics ARE more logical than the rest of the population because the vollume on there senses is turned up so high and this causes constant hypnosis.this constent hypnosis causes endorphines in the brain to go off constantly causing the autistic to become disconected from ones own body sensations and emotions.


I wish that was the case. All having the "volume turned up on my senses" does to me is fry my nerves, making me more irritable, and having stronger emotional reactions than NTs who can feel relaxed in the midst of abrasive external noise and chaos.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aghogday wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
[Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.


Suit yourself, I feel confident I provided more than enough evidence to refute your assertion/claim that autism is labeled as a disability because autistics are more logical than the rest of the population.

Nope, I'm blaming you. And since I never stated that, so I'm sure you did.

Edit:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well now you've really lost me...because from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said about aspies being more logical than neurotypicals as well as the basis of the OP.

Please make up your mind because you're really not consistent.
Sweetleaf wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I was not contridicting anything you said there.

... from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said...


Confused

Yeah, remebering what you're argueing about can be a good thing...

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think we have different definitions of the word "interesting".

Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.

Level of intencity in the feeling, if I say I'm interested in something it means I'll learn anything I can about it, otherwise I'd say I was curious about whatever it is. Apparently this is not the case with you, you use interested much more mildly, thus our definitions differ.
I do learn everything I can about things I am interested in, that does not mean this knowledge necessarily gets me anywhere in life.

What does "gets you anywhere" means specificly?

Quote:
Quote:
People go along with things they don't identify with all the time........so I feel my point still stands that having AS does not necessarily make one less likely to follow mob mentality when given the chance.

Example please? Because last time I checked sport arenas where packed with people painting their faces, protest rallies with chants and signs, people following dress codes to the letter, etc^99999.
There are never people with AS or Autism at sort arenas and protest rallies?

Why are you making me repeat everything?
Silvervarg wrote:
... it's less likely a spectrumite sucumbs to these feelings since they do not relate to the group...


Quote:
Also I don't see what is ignorant about a fact....I mean how does a helmet save someone if they never suffer a fall where they hit their head? One other thought it is possible even with a helmet someone could get a brain injury that might make their life terrible.....maybe without the helmet the would have just died and not had to live in misery..........morbid, but when making laws I think all relevant points should be considered.

When you tell me how you see who's going to have an accident and how severe, I'll consider that a valid argument and respond.
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Last edited by Silvervarg on Wed May 09, 2012 6:26 am; edited 3 times in total
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vermontsavant
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
[Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.


Suit yourself, I feel confident I provided more than enough evidence to refute your assertion/claim that autism is labeled as a disability because autistics are more logical than the rest of the population.
autistics ARE more logical than the rest of the population because the vollume on there senses is turned up so high and this causes constant hypnosis.this constent hypnosis causes endorphines in the brain to go off constantly causing the autistic to become disconected from ones own body sensations and emotions.


Alexithymia has been measured as a co-morbid condition in up to 85% of individuals with Alexithymia. This can be a disabling emotional condition, in itself. However, complete lack of emotion is evidenced by science to make it more difficult to make rational/logical decisions, not easier.

So, in general problems with emotions are evidenced higher among the autistic population that the rest of the population, but problems with emotions don't necessarily equal rational or logical decisions in life.

Some autistic individuals report experiencing very strong emotions, so it is dependent on the individual and the circumstances as to how their emotions impact their lives. And, some autistic individuals are hypo-sensitive to environmental stimuli rather than hyper-sensitive. That too is dependent on individual and circumstance.

I'm not questioning how you as an individual experience autism as you describe it above, but sensory integration problems and emotional difficulties vary greatly among those diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders. As well, as an autistic individuals ability to make rational/logical descisions in life. Some of those that are more severely impacted by the condition have difficulties in making decisions as they relate to basic self-care behaviors.
i didnt mean to imply that all autistics are emotionless,if anything the opposite is true and its hypertactilenees that leads to hypotactileness and or hyposensitivities.but hyposensitivity and hypotactileness is a root of logical thinking often
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silvervarg wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:
Silvervarg wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well now you've really lost me...because from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said about aspies being more logical than neurotypicals as well as the basis of the OP.

Please make up your mind because you're really not consistent.
Sweetleaf wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I was not contridicting anything you said there.

... from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said...


Confused

Yeah, remebering what you're argueing about can be a good thing...

Well all I did was disagree that people with aspergers are more intelligent than neurotypicals by default which you were arguing....so yeah I don't see what you're still on about and I don't know how to explain it any better.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think we have different definitions of the word "interesting".

Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.

Level of intencity in the feeling, if I say I'm interested in something it means I'll learn anything I can about it, otherwise I'd say I was curious about whatever it is. Apparently this is not the case with you, you use interested much more mildly, thus our definitions differ.
I do learn everything I can about things I am interested in, that does not mean this knowledge necessarily gets me anywhere in life.

What does "gets you anywhere" means specificly?

I don't quite get the question, I haven't really gotten anywhere in life regardless of what interesting things I may learn about. So I don't really know what would get me anywhere.

Quote:
Quote:
People go along with things they don't identify with all the time........so I feel my point still stands that having AS does not necessarily make one less likely to follow mob mentality when given the chance.

Example please? Because last time I checked sport arenas where packed with people painting their faces, protest rallies with chants and signs, people following dress codes to the letter, etc^99999.
There are never people with AS or Autism at sort arenas and protest rallies?

Why are you making me repeat everything?
Silvervarg wrote:
... it's less likely a spectrumite sucumbs to these feelings since they do not relate to the group...


Well even from what I've seen and read even on this website it does not seem autism or aspergers makes one incapable of relating to a group, it might make social interaction difficult but it does not prevent the desire for relating to the group. I would agree it might be less likely someone with AS/Autism would be at such things but to assume only neurotypicals participate in such things is a little ignorant on your part.

Quote:
Also I don't see what is ignorant about a fact....I mean how does a helmet save someone if they never suffer a fall where they hit their head? One other thought it is possible even with a helmet someone could get a brain injury that might make their life terrible.....maybe without the helmet the would have just died and not had to live in misery..........morbid, but when making laws I think all relevant points should be considered.

When you tell me how you see who's going to have an accident and how severe, I'll consider that a valid argument and respond.


You don't...that is why wearing a helmet does not necessarily do any good......and I think it should be an individual choice up to the individual based on the risks they are willing to take or not take. But I am perfectly willing to agree to disagree on this as bikers and helmets isn't even something I think much about. Besides you've already responded and as far as I can tell you're not the authority on valid opinions about helmets so it really does not matter to me how valid you feel that argument is.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The argument was not about a helmet versus non-helmet debate but whether or not it is socially acceptable for an autistic biker to wear a helmet when most bikers choose not to wear helmets. Today the argument is moot because in most states bikers are legally required to wear helmets. The same principle applies to a construction job. Is it socially acceptable for an autistic carpenter to wear a hard hat when nobody else is wearing one? One rainy day I showed up at work wearing a hard hat and everyone thought I was crazy even though my hard hat did a great job keeping my head from getting soaked. Again today it is a moot issue because most construction jobs require protective gear.

But my point is that most neurotypicals base their decisions on what is socially acceptable rather than a good logical choice.
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