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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3551
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 Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| westernwild wrote: | | I hope your child realizes that he simply won't be able to just get up when he wants and do what he wants most of the time when he joins the real world. |
 This was the first massively insulting value-laden judgement in your post. The real world? Do tell me where it is and what it takes to qualify for the title?
It is precisely because most adults have to get up at certain times and because childhood is the time when learn fastest and most easily that I think this is the perfect moment to let my son do as much as possible what interests him, at his own rhythm, while he can.
| Quote: | | Say what you want about schools, they really do do the best they can for the most part with what they have. |
Which is principally and primarily social control, the formation of behaviour, tastes and attitudes, and nothing much to do with knowledge.
| Quote: | | And if you don't think teaching is a monumental, challenging and often thankless job, then you're not doing it right. |
Massive insult no 2, which is the unfortunately widespread result of not knowing/understanding how most children learn, which is out of interest, curiosity, need, and mimicry.
My son didn't need me to teach him how to read. He taught himself naturally, spontaneously, while looking at comic books, playing games on the internet, seeing language all around him on food packets, road signs, etc. It just happened.
He now ( aged 8 ) has read The Hobbit, and similarly sizeable childrens books. I had nothing to do with this other than providing the time, the library visits, and the encouragement. No lessons. It is a terrible and absurd myth that children need to have learning pushed into them, by professionals trained to the "arduous task". 
He learned basic maths while counting up scores in games, multiple dice throws, percentage scores on internet games, multiplication while collecting "items" on online multiplayer games like Runescape, ( so many per trip, that means how many trips to earn so many, etc) .
Have you read about the Prussian ( old Germany) School System on which most American and european schools were modelled? It is quite eye opening about the purposes of school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system
Have you read/looked at any of the articles, sites, excerpts etc that I linked to on the opening page of this thread?
Another good one is at:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/edu/school-mission.htm
Happy educational reading! 
Last edited by ouinon on Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rottenlittleboys
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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A six page long fight on public vs. homeschooling? Awesome! 
I was homeschooled for a short time as a child. And I have to say, even as much as I hated being in school, I hated being homeschooled even more.
We homeschooled our eldest for a while. It was just not working out, mainly for every reason sated on page one. He has since blossomed in public school.
Even with all of the problems we have had with our youngest son's school, I know he is very well served by them.
Both of our ASD boys found their passions at school, something they would not have been exposed to while at home.
Both of our children are exposed to many, many things while at home. Music, books, ideas, mechanics, history, travel, people and so on.
So we do what is best for them and for us. They go to school and learn at home. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3551
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| rottenlittleboys wrote: | | We homeschooled our eldest for a while. It was just not working out, mainly for every reason stated on page one. |
Do you mean these, posted by kit? | kit000003 wrote: | 1. Aspergians have trouble with social issues.
2. Desensitization, on a day-to-day scale.
3. Boredom.
4. Getting into College. |
I did finally, seeing that what had been intended as a support thread for homeschoolers ( with a title to that effect originally too!) had turned into an argument, get round to addressing those criticisms, on page three of the thread. Three of them are unfounded, and the other, boredom, is a temporary effect only, the result of schooling, which children just need time to recover from.
What kind of homeschooling did you try? "Unschooling" seems to suit many Aspies because it allows them to follow their interests, at their own speed etc. Did you try that?
How long did you try homeschooling for?
| rottenlittleboys wrote: | | I hated homeschooling. |
What kind of homeschooling did you have as a child? How old were you? If you were already used to school it may have been hard to adapt. Academic achievements of homeschooled children improve the longer that they are homeschooled. As does their self esteem, confidence etc.
The first year/six months after taking a child out of school is almost always hard, especially if parents impose an almost school-like programme with traditional academic expectations, as children who have been in school for more than a year or two often need quite a bit of time to recover, and have absolutely no desire to do anything, no curiosity, etc because of school's "stop thinking for yourself" training etc etc.
A lot of homeschooling parents find that their children need a period of time with almost no demands, that the smallest amount of work imposed by the parent can become a nightmare struggle. The child has to have time to rediscover their natural desire to find out things, etc. The longer they have been at school the longer this takes.
For a while children may complain of boredom. But if they are allowed time to "lie fallow", they gradually begin to feel, and show, interest in things again. The effect of most schools on many children's spontaneous curiosity, enthusiasm, creativity, and capacity for sustained autonomous work is appalling.
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bowlingball
Butterfly
Joined: May 22, 2008
Age: 11
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Ouinon, I have to say that I also am unschooling my son (he's 11) and agree with nearly everything you've written on this long and interesting thread. It's just that this is one of those debates that will go on until the end of time. It's like the stay-at-home vs. full time working parent debate. I was on one of those boards and will never, ever return. The vitriole spewed at me for stating my belief that it's best to stay home with your baby was ridiculous.
Anyway...I applaud you for trying to champion the homeschool cause but the ps mentality is one that is deeply ingrained in so many people they just can't see that there might be a better way and they can't or don't really want to see what how truly bad a lot of public schools are. I won't waste my time trying to convert- if asked I tell people about homeschooling, they usually look at me look as if I'm explaining neurosurgery to them and say "Oh boy, I could never do that' and then we move on. |
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rachel46
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Midwest US
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Sorry! the above post was posted under my son's username-he goes on the kids board and really enjoys it.
Anyway... Rachel46 posted the last comment |
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whatamess
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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I just read through kit000003's response...and oh my, what world do you live in?
I went to school, and there was not a freaking counselor in sight who helped me with anything related to college...
I went to school to socialize and although I will admit I had a couple of boyfriends, just cause I was cute, I can tell you that I NEVER had a group of friends...I had ONE friend...that's it... |
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flowergal
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Age: 37
Posts: 58
Location: Peaceful Countryside, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Hey, thanks for posting those links, I had never heard of "Gatto", so I am looking forward to reading it. I homeschool all 3 of my kids, 9yr old dtr (possible AS), 7 yr old son (TS/ASD), and 5 yr old dtr (NT) We just completed our 2nd year. My oldest 2 did go to public school prior(and at that time we were not dealing with ASD, although I suspected it). My dtr went from Preschool to Dev. Kind. to Kindergarten. My son was in Early Childhood Dev. Delay (ECDD) classes from age 3-4. I subbed and particpated in their schools. That is when I realized a lot of what the problems where. My hubby and I had talked of homeschooling, but lacked the conviction to do so, until I was there in the school observing, and it wasn't all bad....but it wasn't all right either.
People might say homeschooling isn't for everyone or I could never teach my kids. But, we all teach our kids things, and if you help your kids with their homework....you are teaching them right?
We face criticism from our family, alot and now that we are dealing with ASD and TS, more of my family tends to think..."oh my they should be in the public school where they can get help!" I personally believe it would not help them, but it is my belief.Oh well, I have learned to tune them out and continue to do so.
I have friends whose kids are in public school, and we support each other, even if we do not agree on things. And I have friends who homeschool and we support each other, even if we do not agree on things.
But anyway, thanks for those links, I love it when people will share things like that! 
_________________
"When life brings you to your knees, you are in a good position to pray!" |
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Fayed
Sea Gull
Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Just my 2cp, er cents. Home VS Public schooling depends on one thing. The child. Not let it be known that i may be a little bias, I'm going to college for Special Ed Teaching.
IMO HS can be good for a child. That being said it can also be abused. I knew a couple of people I used to work with who were all home-schooled, and have suffered greatly because of it. For them it was mainly used to enforce religious beliefs, example: they would become very hostile at using the lords name in vain. IMO a large part of their problem was being removed from society as kids.
It can also be used for good too. Many of the campers I met last year ( a large amount of which were Autistic) were home-schooled, and they were great kids. They were very well rounded ( save the natural awkwardness of their autism). I think that if it suits the child, and care is taken to not overly brainwash, and social necessities are taken into consideration.
ON the other hand, Public schooling can be of great benifit. Aside from provinding me a future job ( Joking.... kind of ), it also can be of great for a child. Some children learn better in the public school enviorment. Like HS, PS has its ups and downs. It can be very social, to the point of too social. Its easy to see PS's pitfalls, they're the ones that make the news. The upside is mostly taken for granted.
Finialy, As it realated to Austim. HS probably creates a better learning enviorment for the higher fuinctioning side of the spectrum. and i have to leave right now so ill come back and finish this later
To be continued. |
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