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frankcritic
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 145
Location: United States, AR
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 Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I've not read the book itself, but I've listened to or read dozens of interviews where Dawkins explains the core ideas of it, so I feel I can comment on them, especially now that I've disclosed not having read it.
I have read The God Delusion, however, where Dawkins is at his most brutal when criticizing religion, so I feel I can comment on whether it would be okay in society to do that.
-Frank |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| frankcritic wrote: | Well, I've not read the book itself, but I've listened to or read dozens of interviews where Dawkins explains the core ideas of it, so I feel I can comment on them, especially now that I've disclosed not having read it.
I have read The God Delusion, however, where Dawkins is at his most brutal when criticizing religion, so I feel I can comment on whether it would be okay in society to do that.
-Frank |
Well, I don't think whether it should be done in polite society is anything more than a side point here.
I know you're referring to the feeling Sedaka expressed, but to me, honest explanation of one's views
is always good. Dawkins does cross another line, however, when he becomes needlessly vituperative and insulting.
In a way, it's his selling point -- the gruff-but-accurate-expert type, sort of like House.
But it makes just as strong a statement to say, "You know what? Nothing against religious people, or against
God if He exists, but I personally don't believe He does."
That's respectful, plus it is as clear as Dawkins' emotion-weighty denunciations on the issue.
Ben Stein is nicer.
All that said, honesty does matter more to me than niceness, and with Dawkins, I always get the
feeling he's selling me something. With Stein, in his movie "Expelled", I felt like he laid out all his
cards right at the beginning. He said he doesn't know the answer. (Which is true for us all, when you
get right down to it. Even Dawkins.) Then, he goes and interviews
several leading experts from both sides of the argument.
I found that to be the more persuasive and reasoned approach.
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org.
Last edited by Ragtime on Thu May 08, 2008 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Except Ben Stein does know the answer, "an all powerful, loving god".
Also, he is a slimy charlatan, who purposely misrepresents peoples views.
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sojournertruth
Toucan
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 266
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ben Stein compares biologists to Nazis and claims that "Science makes you kill people." direct quote.
Funny, most of the people gathering large harems of children, blowing people up in marketplaces, etc. are self-proclaimed 'born-again messaihs' or 'prophets,' not biologists.
I don't find Dawkins abrasive at all. I think he's reasonable and polite. In The God Delusion, he states quite simply that he does not believe that religion gets some sort of free pass against being criticized, and that he will treat 'the god hypothesis' as he would treat any other hypothesis. People put religion on some sort of shelf and get all offended when it's criticized, and Dawkins simply does not believe that it deserves protected status.
I didn't particularly like The Blind Watchmaker, but I've enjoyed some of his other books. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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How is the Ancestors Tale ? I've read The God Delusion and most of The Selfish Gene. How would you compare it to them?
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Sedaka
Searching For My Catcher in the Rye
Joined: Jul 17, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 5067
Location: In the recesses of my mind
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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i loved ancestors tale... tells you a lot about how evolutionary relations were unraveled. just a really neat anecdotal collection of short stories. easy read.
_________________
and yet i'm
still roaming these
empty streets at night
alone again only to find
there are no shelters here;
i must simply resolve
to play in the rain. |
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-Vorzac-
Deinonychus
Joined: May 27, 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Surrey, UK (autistic capital of England)
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | Dawkins does cross another line, however, when he becomes needlessly vituperative and insulting. |
Oh, so the same way you are towards anyone with a different political view from you? |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | Except Ben Stein does know the answer, "an all powerful, loving god".
Also, he is a slimy charlatan, who purposely misrepresents peoples views. |
Oh geez, now you're maligning Stein?!
Any other truth-seekers you'd like to club while you're at it?
What's Mother Teresa done against you lately?
_________________
Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | Except Ben Stein does know the answer, "an all powerful, loving god".
Also, he is a slimy charlatan, who purposely misrepresents peoples views. |
Oh geez, now you're maligning Stein?!
Any other truth-seekers you'd like to club while you're at it?
What's Mother Teresa done against you lately?
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You are the one who is anti-truth. Stop with the rhetoric.
_________________
Warghh!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Quatermass
Yahtzee's Protege
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 16475
Location: Somewhere with a sweet hat and a chip on my shoulder
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | Except Ben Stein does know the answer, "an all powerful, loving god".
Also, he is a slimy charlatan, who purposely misrepresents peoples views. |
Oh geez, now you're maligning Stein?!
Any other truth-seekers you'd like to club while you're at it?
What's Mother Teresa done against you lately?
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You are the one who is anti-truth. Stop with the rhetoric. |
I agree. And I wouldn't do anything to Mother Teresa.
_________________
Once it gets going, though, it's a roller coaster thrill ride - a roller coaster that stops dead every now and again like it's run by British Rail. -Yahtzee on GTA IV |
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Sedaka
Searching For My Catcher in the Rye
Joined: Jul 17, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 5067
Location: In the recesses of my mind
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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is that a WoW avatar there, QM? lol
edit: hmm, maybe not.... what game is it, though?
_________________
and yet i'm
still roaming these
empty streets at night
alone again only to find
there are no shelters here;
i must simply resolve
to play in the rain. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Sedaka wrote: | is that a WoW avatar there, QM? lol
edit: hmm, maybe not.... what game is it, though? |
I think its EQ.
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AspE
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jan 01, 2008
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| frankcritic wrote: | You couldn't in the sense that it would be socially acceptable. Being outspoken will always cost you that way, but in regards to religion it will cost you dearly. Christians in America will spread rumors about you and make it difficult, if not impossible, to find employment, or least they will in the Bible Belt where I reside and am trying to get the heck out of. Muslims in the Middle East will kill you or call for all Muslims everywhere to do so and if you think I'm stereotyping you might want to ask Salmon Rushdie or, more recently, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who maintains 24 hour tight top notch security and probably will have to for the rest of her life, all on private donations by the way.
-Frank |
Criticism of religion is currently socially unacceptable, but criticism of science is not. Dawkins is like the atheist Rosa Parks who refuses to sit in the back of the bus. |
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Quatermass
Yahtzee's Protege
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 16475
Location: Somewhere with a sweet hat and a chip on my shoulder
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | Sedaka wrote: | is that a WoW avatar there, QM? lol
edit: hmm, maybe not.... what game is it, though? |
I think its EQ. |
Final Fantasy XI. It's a GM, or Game Master (moderator) called Dave.
For more info, please visit:
http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/
_________________
Once it gets going, though, it's a roller coaster thrill ride - a roller coaster that stops dead every now and again like it's run by British Rail. -Yahtzee on GTA IV |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AspE wrote: | | Dawkins is like the atheist Rosa Parks who refuses to sit in the back of the bus. |
I'm sorry...
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