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Zsazsa
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 569
Location: Upstate New York, USA
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 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: okay |
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| DevonB wrote: | So I watched the little clip...
She may have been taking T (testosterone...) but obviously isn't any more. You will note that breasts have started to develop somewhat in the ultra sound stage... |
This "guy" said on the Oprah Show that her breasts were surgically removed and was very graphic in explaining what was done in removing the breasts. So how could the breast be developing? |
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iceb
Tarkalean hawk
Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 1191
Location: The Liberator flight deck
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| NewportBeachDude wrote: | | iceb wrote: | From what I have seen
Where's the problem.
People get well weirded out with transgender issues when they shouldn't. This person quite obviously lives with a male identity with which he is well adjusted is physically female enough to have a child while his wife cannot. where's the problem?
The tabloid press always make a big issue of such things, that is unhealthy.
Being transgendered myself I have a lot of sympathy and think he must have had to make a number of difficult and brave decisions I hope all goes well for him.
As for his child - a child will accept there parent whatever they are and is only a problem for people who have had society's ****ed up rules driven into them. |
Your being transgendered offers a very uniqure opinion on the subject and I thank you for that.
My generation didn't talk about these things. We didn't even talk about gays. You only hear of this stuff now because the media is so open. I think younger people are much more open and accepting.
Kids love their parents, but I do think kids can be very confused and even distraught over things as unusual as this. The kid is going to be bullied and teased mercilessly and there's nothing the parents can do about it now that they're public. If this kid isn't psycholoically strong by nature, I'd hate to think of what could result from that.
I wonder which one will be listed as "mother" on the birth certificate. |
I have known people who have undergone gender reassignment after having a family and as far as I can tell there children had remarkably little problem.
When it comes to bringing up a child life is seldom easy and never fair, everybody has problems.
The birth certificate could be interesting I have just got a new one due to some recent changes in the law here this means now I have always been female even though the first 35 years of my life were spent as a male.
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Wisdom must be gathered, it cannot be given.
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2512
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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The arguments posted here about transgendered people and their families are the exact arguments I grew up hearing against miscegenation and interracial dating-heck the same arguments for sterilizing disabled people. "It's not that we're prejudiced, but what will other people say? It's not fair to the kids".
And I've heard of plenty of trannys that don't get complete reassignment. |
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NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 25, 2007
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| KimJ wrote: | The arguments posted here about transgendered people and their families are the exact arguments I grew up hearing against miscegenation and interracial dating-heck the same arguments for sterilizing disabled people. "It's not that we're prejudiced, but what will other people say? It's not fair to the kids".
And I've heard of plenty of trannys that don't get complete reassignment. |
I don't think we're necessarily prejudiced against all transgendered people because we express concerns about the upbringing of a child in this scenario? I also have no problem with interracial dating or marriage. But, I don't think sterilizing an at-risk adult person with the mental capacity of a 3-year-old, but is sexually active is wrong. My wife's family had a mentally retarded relative give birth. She and the father were under assisted care. Obvioiusly, the kid was taken away from them. Very unfortunate.
I do see your point. I think my issue isn't so much as him being transgendered as it is a man having a baby. In the history of human species, the male has never been able to give birth and I don't know why we'd mess with this now. It's not a man to me no matter what the external appearances are and I think the media needs to make that clear. He may define himself as a man, but scientifically it is biologically still a woman. The media is making it like a man is actually giving birth and that's not true. Now, if he didn't have female organs and gave birth, THEN WE'D HAVE A STORY!  |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2512
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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People couch their opinions behind concerns for children all of the time. It's still essentially about prejudice against transgendered people. That's the issue here. And I never said you were arguing against "all" trannys, but the arguments posted here against these people and their families.
People here are saying it's immoral and wrong for a transgendered person to raise a child (or give birth). If there is nothing wrong with gender reassignment, then there shouldn't be a problem with that person being in the community like anyone else. |
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NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 25, 2007
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| iceb wrote: | I have known people who have undergone gender reassignment after having a family and as far as I can tell there children had remarkably little problem.
When it comes to bringing up a child life is seldom easy and never fair, everybody has problems.
The birth certificate could be interesting I have just got a new one due to some recent changes in the law here this means now I have always been female even though the first 35 years of my life were spent as a male. |
I don't have first-hand experience like yourself, but I've seen both sides on medical programs and there's been a lot of them on TV lately for some reason. I've seen children accept it and some not even speak to the parent after the transformation. They have a hard time relating to the person after that. I hope your family and friends were more supportive, however. If one of my kids came to me as an adult and needed to do this, I'd do some soul searching and would probably accept it because I love my kids and want them to be happy and mentally healthy. However, if one of them went from being a lady to a man and got pregnant as a man, then went on TV looking like a man next to their former Lesbian mate, now wife, to tell the world about the birth, I'd probably have a heart attack, dude. I'd freakin' drop dead.
I agree with you that life's not fair. I think to some degree we will all face challenges and those challenges are really what make us stronger. Well said.
Now, the birth certificate thing is interesting. Typically, the one who gives birth is considered the mother. Then, there is the father. But, since the father is giving birth, whose name goes on it as the mother? Is the wife's name going on it (like in an adoption or something) even though she didn't give birth? If they ever divorced, court's typically give the birth mother more rights. Could he (as the father) ever use that position against the mother (wife) if they ever divorced to get custody or child support? This is really an area that society probably isn't ready to deal with. |
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NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 25, 2007
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| KimJ wrote: | People couch their opinions behind concerns for children all of the time. It's still essentially about prejudice against transgendered people. That's the issue here. And I never said you were arguing against "all" trannys, but the arguments posted here against these people and their families.
People here are saying it's immoral and wrong for a transgendered person to raise a child (or give birth). If there is nothing wrong with gender reassignment, then there shouldn't be a problem with that person being in the community like anyone else. |
Yes, thanks for summarizing that. For my own part in this, I need to clarify that I don't feel ALL transgendered people should be eliminated from being parents. It's just having kids in this way unsettles me. I do hope they are good parents because they're going to have some stuff to deal with for the rest of their lives. |
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slowmutant
Heyyyy!
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 3370
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof_Pretorius wrote: | What's really sickening about this whole thing is how the media keep reporting it as if it was news.
It's a woman who dresses like a man, and she's pregnant.
What's the big deal ? |
No, not a mere crossdresser. An actual transgender, surgically altered to include some of both genders.
Of course whatever you do with -or to- your own body is your business, but don't expect the disguise to fool anyone. Going MTF or FTM is the ultimate form of body-modification. Way more hardcore than piercing, branding, or scarification. |
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tweety_fan
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 03, 2007
Posts: 1032
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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never before in human history has a man carried a child. i hope the kid is healthy when born and the uniqueness of the situation does not upset it to much. i hope that the kid gets all the love it will ever need.
anyone seen the movie "Junior"? similar scenario. |
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slowmutant
Heyyyy!
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 3370
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| tweety_fan wrote: | never before in human history has a man carried a child. i hope the kid is healthy when born and the uniqueness of the situation does not upset it to much. i hope that the kid gets all the love it will ever need.
anyone seen the movie "Junior"? similar scenario. |
If Transgender Man actually carries to term and delivers the baby with no complications (and that's a HUGE if), what will the newborn be? Will it be remotely human?
Junior was just a movie. Its premise was no more plausible than The Sixth Day or Eight-Legged Freaks. |
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RainSong
The Argumentive Lunatic
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 4149
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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His wife had a hysterectomy; that's why she isn't carrying the baby. And he was taking testosterone, but he stopped several months before the pregnancy (about four months, I think). He miscarried the first pregnancy, but this one looks like it'll work. The parents have said that the wife will be the mother and the pregnant man will be the father.
Why wouldn't the child be human? People shouldn't judge her (the baby); she has nothing to do with it at all.
I don't particularly care either way. I don't know the family, and they're not affecting me; they're within their rights, so there you go.
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"You'll never get to heaven if you're afraid of getting high." |
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errr
Banned
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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no
strange freak, huh? |
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slowmutant
Heyyyy!
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 3370
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| RainSong wrote: | His wife had a hysterectomy; that's why she isn't carrying the baby. And he was taking testosterone, but he stopped several months before the pregnancy (about four months, I think). He miscarried the first pregnancy, but this one looks like it'll work. The parents have said that the wife will be the mother and the pregnant man will be the father.
Why wouldn't the child be human? People shouldn't judge her (the baby); she has nothing to do with it at all.
I don't particularly care either way. I don't know the family, and they're not affecting me; they're within their rights, so there you go. |
Of course they are, and no they're not affecting me either. It was merely the thought of it that set my infernal imagination going. I wish them & their baby all the luck in the world, but I don't think I'd want to meet Transgender Man. |
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EvilKimEvil
zoo-music girl
Joined: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 3038
Location: CA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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According to a news article, he stopped taking testosterone 2 years ago and he chose not to surgically alter his genitalia as part of his transition to a male identity.
From the article:
| Quote: | Beatie, 34, who lives in Oregon, was born a woman but decided to become a man 10 years ago. He began taking testosterone treatments and had breast surgery to remove glands and flatten his chest.
"I opted not to do anything with my reproductive organs because I wanted to have a child one day," he told the talk show host. Beatie's wife Nancy said she inseminated him with a syringe using sperm purchased from a bank.
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| Quote: | | Beatie stopped taking testosterone two years ago and his levels of the hormone are normal. |
Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080404/en_nm/pregnant_man_dc_6 |
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Prof_Pretorius
troubled Soul
Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 4233
Location: Hiding in the attic of the Arkham Library
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Step Right Up,
See The Man who has gotten PREGNANT !!\
Right before your very eyes you'll see a man carrying a baby!!
YES !! Live and here before you, a MAN who is indeed PREGNANT !!
For the price of one thin dime, you'll see a MARVEL of Medical SCIENCE !!
(Yes, thank you, move along, keep the line moving, yes, thank you, right behind the curtain there , keep the line moving ...)
_________________
I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow. I feel my fate in what I cannot fear. I learn by going where I have to go. ~Theodore Roethke |
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