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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 5662
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GoatOnFire wrote: |
I think you've hit on something. Things may not go well when aspies are reading between the lines. |
Well, right. But when I say 'read between the lines' I'm just saying don't take it too personally - its just really product of error; identify with it and it causes way more grief than its worth. |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jainaday wrote: | | D1nk0 wrote: | Its really unfortunate but I daresay that most young women from their teens through their 20s are snobby as hell.
You have to understand that snobbery is very much a manifestation of insecurity; its social anxiety.
Snobs are very worried that associating and/or acknowledging people who dont display signs of high status that they will be viewed as being low status themselves. Young women try to work their way up the social ladder by seeking the approval of and associating with men who are high status. Thats the trouble with young women-especially women in their 20s; they're just SO f***ing insecure. Not that young men arent insecure but its clearly much worse with young women. |
I think the phych issues that guys have at those ages just manifest themselves in different ways--but it doesn't mean that they aren't all about insecurity. . |
No Kidding. Insecure guys that age arent snobby, they're condescending and sometimes pushy, aggressive, and confrontational-even violent. Guys like that will usually try to find your weakness and once they do they insult you directly about it. Thats one of the most enduring and most Obvious behavioural differences between men and women: women are FAR less direct than men. Thats why snobbery works for them because they dont actually have to engage. There ARE however, plenty of reasons for women to be more judgemental of men than vice versa: not only the safety issue but also that a woman can have FAR FEWER children in her lifetime than a man and she has only a limited time to be young and sexy-time is not on womens side.
Last edited by D1nk0 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Who_Am_I
Retarded walking encylopedia, apparently...
Joined: Aug 28, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 3286
Location: My body is in Brisbane and my mind is in the gutter. :D
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| GoatOnFire wrote: | | zee wrote: | | My definition of a 'creep' is simply someone who creeps me out, ie a guy who stares at my tits, or stares at me for a long time, makes lewd comments, touches in an unnatural way, etc. For example, the other day this guy I had just met rubbed me lightly on the back, which was totally gross, and moreover his voice shifted like an octave higher when he talked to me, and got softer, so I would categorize him as a creep. It has nothing to do with his appearance or being 'low status', I don't know where you get that from. |
 Maybe your definition is different than most women. That definition doesn't really fit me at all. Are there some guys you think are creeps just by looking at them? When I'm expected to smile I can never smile correctly, could that possibly make me a creep? |
It could possibly make some people perceive you as a creep, as many people will think that something is wrong/you are trying to hide something if they think your facial expressions are not appropriate to the situation. I would imagine that this is a problem that many Aspies have.
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zee
human wannabe
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1122
Location: backstage
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: | | zee wrote: | | D1nk0 wrote: | zee-Im not suprised that very few of the women you've known have been snobby towards you personally. But you do realize that straight (younger)women often size up men As If they were potential mates. Straight Men do the exact same thing too.
I certain HAVE tried treating guys and girls as basically the same in my teens and it Really Backfired. All the women my age Ive met greatly resent men who treat them the same way the treat other guys. The men Ive known who get along well with women tend to recognize that women are different and they know how to pander to their needs and most importantly make women feel *at ease*; which is something Ive Never been able to do with most young women despite earnestly trying.
Ive been told by several women that Ive very "intense and aggressive" and that my temperment makes them feel uncomfortable. If you're a naturally aggressive man you have to balance it out with suaveness, otherwise women be intimidated by you and try to get rid of you. |
I do size up men, but rarely as potential mates. But of course you will make judgements about people when you first meet them, that's human nature.
2 things-- 1, when you use terms like "intense and aggressive", to me that implies desperation, and of course that's a turn off. It's not just with women, you'd feel the same way if you met a girl who acted like that.
And 2, from your previous posts you come across as someone with an anger management problem, so again you can't blame women for avoiding you in regards to that. |
zee-"intense and aggressive" does Not mean being desperate! Its simply my personal temperment. Im extremely direct and very expressive of my emotions, including frustration and anger. I honestly think you should look up the definition of 'intense'. Women with such personalities arent usually called "intense", rather 'emotionally volatile' or melodramatic.
I show a wide range of feelings, but for some reason its not socially acceptable to show anger. Angry people or those who anger easily arent automatically violent and dangerous. |
Anger isn't attractive, you got that right. If you know the person, and why they're angry, then that's one thing, but an angry stranger isn't someone you'd want to meet.
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zee
human wannabe
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1122
Location: backstage
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: | | zee wrote: | | D1nk0 wrote: | | GoatOnFire wrote: | I find it enlightening to see how judgmental everyone seems to be just based off of the vibe other people give.  Maybe I could learn from this. Maybe people don't like me because I'm not judgmental enough. It seems that no one wants to associate with someone who will associate with just anyone. I should become more judgmental of specific people. Hey, I just judged you guys, I'm getting more judgmental already, that might be a good thing. 
| zee wrote: | | I just act like a snob if a guy reminds me of a previous guy I've had a bad experience with, or like I said, if he seems like a sexist or a creep in another way. |
What is a creep in your opinion? I hear the term thrown out a lot but have never been able to put a finger down on what it is. |
GoatOnFire, I think you've got the (right)idea  .Women use the term creep and creepy mostly to indicate either a guy who makes them uncomfortable for some reason or other OR a guy who they find unattractive. Especially a guy thats unattractive And takes notice of them. Young women love to use the term to describe low status men or men who "look" low status . So yeah, (young)women tend to pass judgement of men based on the vibe they give off rather than by how the guy in question behaves towards them. |
My definition of a 'creep' is simply someone who creeps me out, ie a guy who stares at my tits, or stares at me for a long time, makes lewd comments, touches in an unnatural way, etc. For example, the other day this guy I had just met rubbed me lightly on the back, which was totally gross, and moreover his voice shifted like an octave higher when he talked to me, and got softer, so I would categorize him as a creep. It has nothing to do with his appearance or being 'low status', I don't know where you get that from. |
I got it from seeing how many young NT women behave and are quick to judge men without even getting to know them.
So what you're saying is that "creepy" men to you are men who do not restrain their sexual impulses, right? |
It includes that, but just staring or inappropriate touching isn't necessarily sexual. But I guess men who don't show restraint or control, or who don't respect personal boundaries, is a good definition.
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zee
human wannabe
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1122
Location: backstage
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| GoatOnFire wrote: | | zee wrote: | | My definition of a 'creep' is simply someone who creeps me out, ie a guy who stares at my tits, or stares at me for a long time, makes lewd comments, touches in an unnatural way, etc. For example, the other day this guy I had just met rubbed me lightly on the back, which was totally gross, and moreover his voice shifted like an octave higher when he talked to me, and got softer, so I would categorize him as a creep. It has nothing to do with his appearance or being 'low status', I don't know where you get that from. |
Maybe your definition is different than most women. That definition doesn't really fit me at all. Are there some guys you think are creeps just by looking at them? When I'm expected to smile I can never smile correctly, could that possibly make me a creep? |
No, it has nothing to do with appearance, and everything to do with action (or interaction with the person in question). See my above post regarding self-control. I don't think smiling incorrectly is creepy, only awkward.
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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 5662
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Zee, I think the trouble is people's inabilities to read eachother - aspies, NTs, anyone. People have their inward selves and insecurities, and then they have the facades they put on for the world. Women seem to fall just as much for the masks as guys do I think and whoever said it, it does seem like it takes people into their late 20's, early 30's, possibly later, to be able to sort it all out and before that time it very much seems to err in favor of the superficials. |
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zee
human wannabe
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1122
Location: backstage
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Zee, I think the trouble is people's inabilities to read eachother - aspies, NTs, anyone. People have their inward selves and insecurities, and then they have the facades they put on for the world. Women seem to fall just as much for the masks as guys do I think and whoever said it, it does seem like it takes people into their late 20's, early 30's, possibly later, to be able to sort it all out and before that time it very much seems to err in favor of the superficials. |
Well, that's a lot of generalizing, but I do agree that people construct these socially conscious images. But I think the real issue is that young women are (apparently) too harsh in their judgement and treatment of these guys. There's a difference between not being able to read someone, and labelling them as a creep. I'm just trying to define that line, and I really don't think that it's a gender specific problem--I think guys are equally judgemental, if not more so.
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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 5662
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| zee wrote: | | I'm just trying to define that line, and I really don't think that it's a gender specific problem--I think guys are equally judgemental, if not more so. |
Oh, no disagreement there - a lot of guys I know talk this and that about women the same way, really irritates me, and sadly it seems to set the precedent as "this is how its supposed to be done - be superficially judgmental as hell, be a pig, and you'll prove you've got it locked". That kind of crap just keeps everyone cynical and keeps the cycle going. |
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MagicMike
Phoenix
Joined: May 30, 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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I made the mistake of liking stuck-up girls. In general I've gotten over that however, as is evidenced by the recent few girls I've liked (being somewhat out of the mainstream). Nevertheless, I've become quite infuritated with the condescending attitude that tends to be a function of excessive appearance; the types of girls that spend a small fortune on designer clothing and manicures and stupid flipflops also tend to be the ones that shy away from you when you notice them. Perhaps they are looking for inheritance-awaiting fratdaddies to fulfill their dreams of trophy wifedom?
Sigh...I really need cognitive therapy sessions to restructure my worldview. |
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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 5662
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| MagicMike wrote: | I made the mistake of liking stuck-up girls. In general I've gotten over that however, as is evidenced by the recent few girls I've liked (being somewhat out of the mainstream). Nevertheless, I've become quite infuritated with the condescending attitude that tends to be a function of excessive appearance; the types of girls that spend a small fortune on designer clothing and manicures and stupid flipflops also tend to be the ones that shy away from you when you notice them. Perhaps they are looking for inheritance-awaiting fratdaddies to fulfill their dreams of trophy wifedom?
Sigh...I really need cognitive therapy sessions to restructure my worldview. |
Or be real happy that your not the poor sucker stuck with em. There are some great girls out there and there are also financial predators, you'll see a lot of the later being real status-minded like that. Not to say that's always the case, even if its not - if they don't have a good head on their shoulders they'll easily be someone else's misery or, if they find a guy who's a piece of work as well, its their mutual misery. |
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MagicMike
Phoenix
Joined: May 30, 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | MagicMike wrote: | I made the mistake of liking stuck-up girls. In general I've gotten over that however, as is evidenced by the recent few girls I've liked (being somewhat out of the mainstream). Nevertheless, I've become quite infuritated with the condescending attitude that tends to be a function of excessive appearance; the types of girls that spend a small fortune on designer clothing and manicures and stupid flipflops also tend to be the ones that shy away from you when you notice them. Perhaps they are looking for inheritance-awaiting fratdaddies to fulfill their dreams of trophy wifedom?
Sigh...I really need cognitive therapy sessions to restructure my worldview. |
Or be real happy that your not the poor sucker stuck with em. There are some great girls out there and there are also financial predators, you'll see a lot of the later being real status-minded like that. Not to say that's always the case, even if its not - if they don't have a good head on their shoulders they'll easily be someone else's misery or, if they find a guy who's a piece of work as well, its their mutual misery. |
You know, part of me would like to be happy when I eventually find a smart, caring mutually supporting woman to help me through my bouts of malaise while laughing at the guys stuck with the snotty girls, but I'd rather not sink to schatenfreude. 
This said, I'm happy single. I'd probably be happier if I weren't but I'm good single. I've eliminated most attachment to finding a girl, but assuming I meet one I like (and who is potentially into me) then I'll pursue a relationship if interest occurs on both parties...if rejected, so what? |
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Tim_Tex
WP's Resident Simpsons and South Park Aficionado
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 22318
Location: San Marcos, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Jainaday wrote: | | Tim_Tex wrote: | | My first girlfriend cheated on me with a guy because he had a nicer car. This is why I don't date NTs. |
No offense, Tim, but either (a) that was not the real reason she cheated on you--rather, it was just the reason she gave--or (b) it wasn't really so much a relationship to start with.
Even NT's aren't that crazy. .. quite. . .
at least I don't think so, and I hope not. |
She didn't actually say this to me...I caught them in the act. I later found out that he was in a gang.
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tybald
Raven
Joined: Feb 08, 2008
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm torn on this subject. I have found a lot of women (especially the very attractive ones) to be stuck up and snotty towards me. I wonder if part of this is my perception based on resentment/devaluing something I want but can't have. I'm willing to accept my role in the dynamics of these things. I do however see that some of these women treat everyone like crap. Im not 100% convinced about the insecurity issue but I do feel they are probably quite unhappy. Whether this is a cause or a result of their behaviour is unclear to me. Probably the ones who feel the need to hide behind a ton of designer labels are fairly insecure.
It seems to me that another possible cause could be that in the majority of cases very beautiful women are treated like a princess and sucked up to every day of their lives by almost every man they meet. These guys do things for them, buy them things etc and eventually these women probably begin to see this as the norm and begin to start expecting it. Either that or they get very cynical and begin to suspect everyone of having ulterior motives, even when they are just being nice. This would probably explain their obsession with 'bad boys' as these are just the opposite and don't try to treat them well at all. In a sense they know these guys are being real with them (although I've acted like a bad boy to get with attractive women and its worked - fortunately I've grown out of that sort of cynicism now!).
Whatever the cause, I still find it hard to defend anyone who seems to write off vast swathes of the population without getting to know them. Its superficial and juvenile, and people are right that genuine, nice, decent people don't need women (or men) like this in their lives. We deserve better! |
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CleverKitten
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 235
Location: Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm...
I am a female. Although I try to be as non-judgemental and as kind as I can be to everyone, some people still have a serious problem with me, and I don't know why.
I have a very formal manner of speech. I hardly ever use slang, and I try to use proper verbal ettiquette (like please, thank you, yes ma'am, no ma'am) whenever possible, because it is the polite thing to do, right?
I tend to dress very nicely. I rarely wear jeans. I usually only wear a nice buttoned blouse with a pretty skirt, and some high-heels. I just find these clothes to be more comfortable than tight jeans and tennis shoes.
I never yell or express anger in a harmful manner to anyone. I always try to be as kind and polite as I can.
I definitely do not fit in with the preppy girls, however. I'm too wierd for them. Haha.
But judging by first impressions, would I be considered a snob? Actually, I am quite unsure as to what exactly a "snob" is... |
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