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EvilKimEvil
zoo-music girl
Joined: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 3040
Location: highway to hell
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: The Autisnob |
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| NeantHumain wrote: |
[*] Believes aspies should be recipients of welfare for their "disability" (yet means of superiority) instead of having to engage in work as the hoi-poloi do |
I can see how this would be a hypocritical belief to hold in conjunction with the belief that those on the spectrum are superior to other people.
However, in order to qualify for an ASD diagnosis, the ASD symptoms must be making it extremely difficult or impossible to do one or more of the following:
-hold a job / earn a living
-get an education
-perform basic self-care tasks such as eating, cleaning, and paying bills
-interact with other people or have some semblance of a social life
Therefore, in order to be diagnosed, one must be at least partially disabled by the ASD. That does not mean that every aspie and autist is disabled in a way that qualifies them to receive welfare. A lot of aspies hold jobs and support themselves successfully. Some cannot.
IMO, if someone has a condition that prevents them from holding a job, they have every right to consder themselves disabled and request the same assistance available to other disabled people. I don't think an individual's beliefs have anything to do with this basic reality. |
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Daewoodrow
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 187
Location: Canterbury, England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I don't know about snobbery.
I guess based on your definitions I could be classed as a snob.
Except for a few things:
I don't beleive Autistics are superior to Neurotypicals.
I DO hate Neurotypicals. They have made my life miserable. Pin whatever psychological analysis you like to that statement.
It is a fact that Autistics are more likely to be intelligent than neurotypicals. That's not my belief, it's a fact.
I don't believe I should get benefits. I'm perfectly able bodied. I turn down most of my University's help, I just want the diagnosis.
I do beleive most Neurotypicals are destructively illogical.
I don't beleive Autistics would do a better job running the world.
I don't disagree with the cure concept because it would "take away my superiority", I disagree because YOU CAN'T CURE AUTISM. It's impossible. Autism is your brain, there is no Neurotypical person hiding under damaged circuitry.
I disagree with the idea of vaccinations causing Autism because i'm a scientist, and there is no proof. |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4607
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| anbuend wrote: | ...
I know he's a fictional character, but look at Adrian Monk. His OCD makes him at the same time a very good detective because he notices tiny things that are out of place, and unable to be employed by the police. While he does manage to sustain a job as a consultant, it's quite possible that there are people in real life who have OCD that makes them good at certain things, but also unable to work at all, even as a consultant, because it just interferes too much in other ways.
... |
Actually, Adrian monk is played as a character that is NOT capable of real self help or even able to "sustain a job as a consultant"!!!!!!! THAT is why he has an assistant that does EVERYTHING else like:
1. drive him around.
2. buy food.
3. give him wipes.
4. make his appointments
5. keep track of everything.
6. etc..... |
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SuperSteve
Blue Jay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 89
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: my view |
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| Quote: | | One thing I've noticed on this site is something that may be best described as autism snobbery—that is, a form of snobbery that follows from one's having an autism spectrum disorder like Asperger's syndrome. |
If believing that our society would be a better one if we had a higher percentage people with Aspergers Syndrome makes me, as you call it, an Autisnob, then I guess I'll just have to live with that. I prefer the term Counter-Neurelitist, to borrow a term coined by Dr. Mark A. Foster (Professor of Sociology and Aspergian, as he says).
| Quote: | | Believes aspies are smarter |
If we are to speak in terms of I.Q., Aspies tend to have "normal to high intelligence". However, this is a calculated average of points scored in various areas. The deal for an Aspie is usually to be "black or white"; to either score very high or very low in the various areas. I believe this setup, coupled with the Aspie tendency for having "special interests", makes for a potentially valuable specialist in his or her chosen field. And I believe the future belongs to specialists.
| Quote: | | Believes aspies should be recipients of welfare for their "disability" (yet means of superiority) instead of having to engage in work as the hoi-poloi do |
I'm currently unemployed and on a sort of welfare (it's actually insurance money, but I digress) and I hate every minute of it. I believe in earning my pay. However, problems with my back makes me unfit for any heavy manual labour for extended time, and my disability-type contact person at the employment office can't seem to understand the difference between tasks that might appear menial (translating, proof-reading texts and similar) that can actually be quite stimulating for me, as opposed to tasks that are just genuinely menial (cutting veggies, washing cars) that bores me to physical illness. This coupled with that my town isnt huge, and I have limited ability for transportation, makes finding a job hard for me. With all of these things standing in my way, and me actually trying to find a job that might suit me, I feel that I can get away with welfare for at least some time.
As a sideote, it's perfectly possible that I'm superior in many ways, and still labeled as "disabled". For an example, I can read, write and speak better english now, at 20 years of age, than most swedish people learn to do in a lifetime!
| Quote: | | Believes autists possess a different set of social skills that enable them to communicate among each other but not among NTs |
I'm fairly certain this is actually fact, to a degree.
| Quote: | | Believes aspies are more creative |
Naturally not an absolute, but I do think Aspies have a greater tendency towards creativity than NTs normally do. We tend to think in different ways, and are in general thought of as "originals" in ourselves. Alsom creativity has many faces. (I'm into a bit of creative writing, but suffer from writers block for having too many ideas, as opposed to none. I'd also love to play an instrument, if I wasnt tone deaf and lacked rhytm more or less completely  )
| Quote: | | Believes aspies are more logical |
I believe Aspies can better separate logical thought from emotion, to some extent. If my friend is jumped by a gang of guys, my first impulse is to jump in and fight them. But if I don't actually believe I can fight them off, cold reasoning says getting help would be more fruitful. I'm getting tired here, but I think you know what I'm getting at.
| Quote: | | Blames NTs for all problems |
Now this is unfair. I've found myself doing this more than once, but then realized that NTs can't help who or how they are any more than I can. The true problem comes from society expecting uniformity, and labeling anything outside it as disabled. If the disability in question relates to the completion of any given task, I could understand it. But oftentimes the "problem" lies with interaction in the lunchroom and whatnot. And I can't bring myself to see that as a problem unless I am in fact harassing or disturbing anyone.
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You are my reason to despise the world! |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3197
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | | Actually, Adrian monk is played as a character that is NOT capable of real self help or even able to "sustain a job as a consultant"!!!!!!! THAT is why he has an assistant that does EVERYTHING else like: |
For the sake of what I'm talking about, that doesn't matter. What matters is that he does in fact hold a job -- he's not on public assistance. Lots of people hire assistants to help them do their job, or else companies hire assistants for other employees. He's only different in some of the sort of help he needs, not in the fact that he needs help to do his job.
You are making it sound very much as if, say, Harriet McBryde Johnson is not really able to successfully sustain a job as a lawyer, because she needs help with getting out of bed, dressing, bathing, using the restroom, etc. Which is just not true. She does her job, and she presumably gets assistance both from paralegals (standard kind of assistance) and from personal care assistants (non-standard kind of assistance, at least at the moment). She brings home a paycheck, she's still gainfully employed.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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Catalyst
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 419
Location: Left of Center
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Autisnob |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | | One thing I've noticed on this site is something that may be best described as autism snobbery... |
YES. I tend to only come to these forums occasionally now because I have to rein in my desire to post "YOU HAVE A NEUROLOGICAL DISORDER. YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THE [ahem] X-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!" obsessively. My wife stopped coming here because it was ticking her off so much.
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"And if I had the choice, I'd take the voice I got, 'cause it was hard to find..."
--Johnette Napolitano |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1427
Location: North West United States
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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This is a good topic.
I sometimes feel snobbish in real life yet I'm too shy/polite to express my complete thoughts. I think this is the case for most people here. We tend to b*tch about NT’s more here because we can’t in ordinary company. It's catharsis for us.
I don’t know if being a snob stems from a superiority complex as much as it stems from general feelings of alienation. We are often branded as inferior and disabled by the majority who often trivialize our special interests, talents, and abilities. It’s only natural to want to return the favor by looking down our noses at the people who would look down their noses at us.
I agree that being a complete a**hole misanthrope isn’t good. I don’t think most of us are like that in person though. At least I try hard not to be. |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3197
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I sometimes actually wonder why some people who don't say a word against the usual order of things (autistic people as inferior to non-autistic people) flip out so badly when the same essential order of things is kept, but just flipped on its head (autistic people as superior to non-autistic people).
I mean, to me they look the same, it's the same structure, just a different set of people in each spot. I'd rather dispense with the structure altogether and say that there's no such thing as a group of people that's just inherently superior or inferior to others.
But for people who haven't thought that far yet, I really don't understand what's so earth-shattering about taking the exact same shape of things and plugging in different people. It starts seeming like the only thing many people are complaining about when it comes to autie-supremacists is that it's not non-autistic people on top anymore. Which is at least as bad as the autie-supremacy crap to begin with.
(I'm obviously not talking about people who really believe in equality and oppose both things on principle, but there's a lot of people I've seen who don't say a word when "autistic people as inferior to non-autistic people" ideas come up, but suddenly act like something horrid is happening when the reverse happens.)
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4607
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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anbuend,
It is like the computer wars. EVERY Computer company says they are better based on some criteria, and leaves out other criteria. The fact is that most are better in SOME way but worse in others.
SO, if it comes to social, sports, and certain other things, I am clearly not as good as the average male. In SOME areas, I am clearly BETTER!
I think people act arrogant here to emphasize the positives. My job was selected based on an interest, but my abilities were ALSO figured into it. My customers think I am fantastic and the best simply because, if they give me a chance, they see me at my best, and most others are far worse.
I'm not saying it is right, but only that it is no worse than the NTs that tend to say they are better on similarly filtered subjective criteria.
HECK, I was at one place where people acted like they thought I was practically deaf because I didn't seem to hear certain sounds. The TRUTH is that I heard many OTHER sounds, and couldn't ascertain which one they wanted me to hear. As an example, one sound was cicadas(KNOWN for causing a racket). The wind and airconditioners were loud, and I just didn't know what they sounded like. Once I heard a broadcast where one was in an infested area, and one wasn't, I determined the sound, and picked IT out of the area. The OTHER was FAR less obvious, but similar. I DID hear that, but didn't know they heard it as well as they did.
I don't even know how I did on what was possibly my first hearing test. I remember hearing sounds they didn't even think were on the tape.
HECK, YOU are obviously FAR more intelligent than someone might think when they first see you. |
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886
Honking Antelope
Joined: Jan 16, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 2694
Location: valley of the damned
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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The vast majority of asperger's issues comes with a lack of social skills, and therefore I find it almost impossible to build friendships with NT people.
It's not that I, or perhaps other people on this forum, blame all our problems on them. It's just incredibly difficult to get along with them. 
Felt like adding my 2 cents.
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If Jesus died for my sins, then I should sin as much as possible, so he didn't die for nothing. |
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Catalyst
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 419
Location: Left of Center
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| 886 wrote: | | It's not that I, or perhaps other people on this forum, blame all our problems on them. |
Maybe not you-- but I've seen some real jack-ass level statements made by others.
To be fair, a lot of this is NOT Aspie-specific. I know black people who think that a black person is automatically superior. I know gay people who think anything heterosexual is disgusting and shouldn't be allowed. I know Pagans who think that "Freedom of Religion" applies only to Non-Christians. Not only are they all full of crap, but their peers do themselves a disservice by putting up with it.
I'm just thrilled I'm not the only one who's had enough of it.
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"And if I had the choice, I'd take the voice I got, 'cause it was hard to find..."
--Johnette Napolitano |
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Kaleido
On an extended tea break
Joined: Feb 19, 2007
Age: 50
Posts: 2215
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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I am not sure its down to snobbery but more about logic and truth. It might not be true of all aspies but there is a tendency for us to point out things we think are incorrect as in we think they are a lie or are incorrect and it may be that we have a certain logic that comes across as snobbery. An observation is made (which may or may not be accurate) and being prone to saying exactly what is on our mind at any given moment, we say it.
Its intention that we might question here not so much as what is apparently observed and said. |
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9CatMom
Ailurophile
Joined: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 5533
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| I am definitely NOT an autisnob! I have some strengths, but also some embarrassing weaknesses. I live in fear of doing some clumsy or stupid nearly all the time. |
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Chibi_Neko
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 984
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Lightning88 wrote: | | OMG I completely agree with you! I've noticed a ton of prejudice against "NTs" here. After a short while, it starts to get really, really annoying... |
You got me on that one. When I look back at some of the posts I made, I have made some prejudice remarks on NT's but it is the inner feeling I get after being treated as a disabled person saying "I am always taking this, I should give some back"
I know that eye for a eye dosn't always work, but sometimes I just can't help it.
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Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart. |
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Poeticromance
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Age: 17
Posts: 154
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Autisnob |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | One thing I've noticed on this site is something that may be best described as autism snobbery—that is, a form of snobbery that follows from one's having an autism spectrum disorder like Asperger's syndrome. I'd say roughly 40% of the active members of this site show this attitude to a greater or lesser degree, and it is poisoning us. Being so vocal, these people set the orthodoxy of the Internet-based autism and Asperger's community whence our hatred of curebies, ABA therapy, and vaccination "conspiracy theories." Their fundamental belief is that autism spectrum conditions are a superior way of being; thus all "NeuroTypicals" (NTs) are contemptible conformists and closed-minded fools. Here is how we might identify them:
- Believes aspies are smarter
- Believes aspies should be recipients of welfare for their "disability" (yet means of superiority) instead of having to engage in work as the hoi-poloi do
- Believes autists possess a different set of social skills that enable them to communicate among each other but not among NTs
- Believes aspies are more creative
- Believes aspies are more logical
- Blames NTs for all problems
Fellow aspie, I know you are not one of these autisnobs, but the time is ripe to challenge them. Let's call them out and see what they have to say! |
I never believed all AS people were smarter than people with general Austim. My younger cusion has it and he is 10x smarter than I am. He's learning the same stuff I am learning from my freshman year to now and he understands it even better than I do. I know from personal experince all that stuff is just sterotyping. |
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