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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6864
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm against elitism. I think that is a very destructive way. I do not present myself here as anything but the voice of reason. Reason and sanity. |
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sim
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 637
Location: an uneven circle
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Urgh, I'm sorry for the sweeping generalizations. I didn't feel the need to specifically justify myself then and I don't now. |
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sartresue
Radical Aspergian
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 2152
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Us Unique People? |
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Unique are us? topic
I think people on the Spectrum are going through a stage that African Americans, women and other minorities did at their radical phase. For too long we were invisible, then we were singled out, shamed and pitied and now we see ourselves as strong and proud, and not on need of fixing and curing. The radical stage is important and necessary in order to understand ourselves as unique and valued and so that we can define ourselves and not let others (usually NTs) do this for us. 
So I understand the premise, even if I do not understand the insect illustration.
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Radical Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory |
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Tormod
Raven
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't dislike NTs. I do dislike "normal" people though. I mean the people who are like everyone else AND think that everyone else should be, too. And I do think that most of those people are NTs. I could be wrong, of course, since I haven't met a lot of aspies, really. And I do dislike people who think everyone should be like them, if they are a minority too.
Anyway, I don't really think having concerns about that kind of people is a case of aspie elitism. I have NT friends who are very much for equality too and also dislike the way you have to be like "everyone else" in order not to be bullied and discriminated against.
I wonder, is it really wrong of me to think like this? Or to believe that a lot of discrimination against minorities is going on in the world, and wishing that would change? I just find it hard to believe that the world is really inhabited mainly by really great. The state of the planet contradicts it.
Another thing that I wonder is, why is it wrong to be proud of your AS traits? I'm happy being me, and although there are a some things I would change if I could, I wouldn't want to become NT, because I want to think that there really isn't anything wrong with me. I refuse to believe that I'm a disorder, or that I'm inferior. I also believe that aspies really are better than NT's in several ways, though the reverse is also true. There are some NT-abilities that seem truly superhuman to me, and that I would not mind having. But at other times, it seems that the average person is, well, inferior. I cannot verify if this is less common with aspies of course, I only know two others.
One thing that I sometimes do, though not on here because it would serve no point, is to suggest that NTs are actually the disordered ones, and it is them that are disabled. But the reason I do this is the question the common viewpoint that autism is some kind of disease, and that there is something wrong with it. I don't think they are disordered any more than I.
But I want to know, what does all this make me? To me it's just a believing in equality, perhaps combined with some general pessimism, but I have gotten the impression that displaying any kind of pride or self-respect is the same as elitism on here.
Of course I often do misunderstand things like this, which is why all I’m doing is honestly asking for someone to explain to me in simple way that I can understand. I haven’t been here for very long, and there may be parts of this community that I have totally missed, and I’m also not good at detecting attitudes and opinions, unless it’s right-out stated. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6864
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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You contradict yourself about a dozen times here. I can't even keep track of what it is you were trying to say.  |
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Tormod
Raven
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Is that so. I don't see it but... what I'm trying to ask is why is it that not believeing that you're inferior the same as elitism.
I'm really sorry about my inability to express myself. What is it that contradicts what? I’m not good at using words, so it’s probably a misunderstanding. I don’t know how to use words properly. I’m unable to say what I’m actually thinking. Because of this I usually avoid trying, but in this case I really wanted to understand. I envy you literate people who can write clearly and say what you think. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6864
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Not believing you're inferior is not the same as elitism. But it can turn into elitist mentality very easily if your sense of self-worth eclipses your notion of others. Elitism means believing in yourself
too much and in others too little. |
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Tormod
Raven
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Is that so. I may be elitist then. I donät want to be, because I agree about it being wrong, but not being elitist seem hard. Without being elitistic against elitists I mean. |
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demoluca
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2007
Posts: 523
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Unique are us? topic
I think people on the Spectrum are going through a stage that African Americans, women and other minorities did at their radical phase. For too long we were invisible, then we were singled out, shamed and pitied and now we see ourselves as strong and proud, and not on need of fixing and curing. The radical stage is important and necessary in order to understand ourselves as unique and valued and so that we can define ourselves and not let others (usually NTs) do this for us. Cool
So I understand the premise, even if I do not understand the insect illustration.
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Exactly.And how are we elitest for not feeling inferior to Everyone else?
Just as long as we don't think we're any better I don't think it's healthy to be all like.."oh..they are so much better then me.."
Rather then."BOTH groups are good."
And i was just pointing pointing out that by saying you're any better then elitism is being elitist yourself.*shrug*
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JerryHatake
Kumdo Practitioner
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 8979
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Well blame William Shakespeare and his play the Tragedy of Richard III were Richard is deformed and evil which is this sigma now with disabilities by non-disabilities people. The founder of Delta Alpha Pi Honor Society for students of all disabilities stated this fact at Mason Xi Chapter of DAP Induction Ceremony (I'm a member).
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Each person gets his or her own freedom and passion one by one
For us who were born in order to shine, our journey will continue
The trump card that supports the uncertain days is your Soul
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matsuiny2004
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Posts: 1442
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryHatake wrote: | | Well blame William Shakespeare and his play the Tragedy of Richard III were Richard is deformed and evil which is this sigma now with disabilities by non-disabilities people. The founder of Delta Alpha Pi Honor Society for students of all disabilities stated this fact at Mason Xi Chapter of DAP Induction Ceremony (I'm a member). |
I never knew that  |
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ToadOfSteel
Extremist Moderate
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 2404
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Is making note of the lying and cheating common to NT's elitism? All I want is some straight truth. I don't say that actually telling the truth is "superior" in any way (in some ways, lying is its own art form), but I just want NT's to stop lying nearly every time they open their bloody mouths... |
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Chibi_Neko
Want a Cookie
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 1006
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is NT people that make being AS depressing, some of them take pride in what they are and diss what we are. When parents are told their child is autistic they say things like 'my world has ended' or 'I feel destroyed'. They don't really think about how we feel, and that can have a negative impact on us, at least it did to me.... does my mom like the way I am? Was she dissapointed because she did not get what she wanted?
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Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6864
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a grim reality that no one would ask to have an autistic child. Wouldn't affect a mother's love for her child, of course, but I see how it could be a devastation. An autistic child means so much more work and hardship than an NT child. But a mother would love her child no matter how he turned out. One of the most invincible and unbeatable things in this world is a mother's love for her child. |
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Teoka
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 128
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I don't hate NT's, but when I'm dealing with problems related to my AS, it's always from NT's. Not that other NT's don't help me through it, but I've never been bullied by another aspie for dressing similarly every day.
And I disagree, I'd want a child who's autistic/AS. Sure, it would be a challenge, but I feel I could give that child the love, support, and opportunity to grow that I didn't have when I was younger. My parents loved me dearly, yes, but looking back, if they had known I'm AS, it would've prevented a lot of hardships.
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Aspie score: 159 out of 200 |
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