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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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 Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | Ask anyone who knows me and they'll say I study, easily, for 4-5 hours a day.
I've always felt it to be take no prisoners. I don't even like asking questions in class  |
I study around the same, IF not more |
Well, as my psychologist said : If you can pull off A work without a diagnosis of Aspergers, why do you need it? You're just running away from more responsibility.
I've taken that to heart, and realized it would of been the most embarrassing thing I could of done. I don't want to shirk off work; I'll do it all on my own, no help at all. At the end , my pride won't allow me to take help now. 
But, in that regard, I liked time tests where I rock it and then come out like "YEAH I BEAT THAT TESTS ASS!" I still remember some of the 48 hour programming tests I had, where I was up until the last second I could turn it in, and I finally got that last step of the problem perfected, and turned it in for a perfect score. Those were some heart pounding moments, and I the amount I accomplishment I felt was doubled 
So, In regards to my initial post, who else loves that "riding the razors edge" trying to not miss the deadline, exams? Its like an action movie  |
Well, I'm Autistic and was diagnosised at 18 months. People didn't even think I would speak, so I think it doesn't make me a worse person for wanting a bit of extended time in order to stay in a regular school. It doesn't make me dumb...it makes me logical because I would have constant meltdowns without it. |
As I said, those with Aspergers are said to have it only effect social portions of their mind, and do not need more time in doing logic problems. It wouldn't be fair to the other students to give them one.
School becomes a competition later on. You wouldn't give a slower runner a race car in the Olympics, because that wouldn't be fair. |
I get what you're saying. Just be careful with the generalization, as some people's Aspergers does affect their ability at school (can't stand noise, easier to get anxiety, etc), so it's not just social that's affected. |
Oh, then they should have exceptions for that. Noise and stuff is no fair if you can't stand it. That doesn't matter at all, compared to time.
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curiouslittleboy
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 07, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | curiouslittleboy wrote: | | @Kalister1: I need extended time too, asshole. >_> |
Well, the problem with that is you are competing for a very few spots, and you only get a limited amount of time. It is testing just how good you are at your subject. It wouldn't be fair if you get more time than the other students, who are also competing for the same spots.
Anyone can solve anything given enough time. Can you solve it in a VERY limited amount of time? The amount of study required goes up exponentially with each period of time shaved off, and it means you really know your subject, enough so you have near instant recall of anything from the entire course.
This also leads to smaller class sizes, and more dedicated professors, as many of the people who can't cope with this quickly drop. The professors who do this kind of weeding out usually do it because "they want to make sure all students who take them KNOW their subject", in other words they don't want you getting into the next class with only a limited command of the subject.
If you are able to do timed tests quickly, this means that the professor can also teach faster. Those who can't do it quickly are left at the wayside, allowing the rest of the class to progress at the required speed.
I just like to know that I don't need anything to help me, any crutch, as I find pushing myself harder and harder against a time limit is the best way to learn. I don't want anyone coming by later and said "oh, but you got extra time on the test!". Extra time on some of the tests I have taken is the difference between a C and an A, so it really does matter.
Its not being an asshole. Its being fair to all the students, who are all competing for a select number of spots. If everyone got an A (grade inflation), then there would be no way to weed out the bad students from the good students when the receiving school reviews that transfer paper. |
True, but lacking in complexity.
I did need extra time at first (sorry for not saying so) but got better at tests in general because I was homeschooled.
Depending on the subject, I may even be the first person to finish the test. :3
And just cuz I'm a bit slower than other students doesn't mean I'm not smart:
I got the Outstanding Achievement Award in German 2, for the highest grade of graduating seniors, and was in the top 3% of my class or higher, and one of (if not the highest) ranking MALE senior in my graduating class in my HS. a HS that's in the top 2% in the country in a class that has about 75% percent of its students on the honor roll, and is the best and biggest my school has ever seen.
Last edited by curiouslittleboy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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If you can't keep your insults to yourself, I'll be reporting you to the mod. Anyone else have anything constructive?
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curiouslittleboy
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 07, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | If you can't keep your insults to yourself, I'll be reporting you to the mod. Anyone else have anything constructive? |
Ok, I'll admit, I went over the top with those ones, however, my points still stand. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| curiouslittleboy wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | If you can't keep your insults to yourself, I'll be reporting you to the mod. Anyone else have anything constructive? |
Ok, I'll admit, I went over the top with those ones, however, my points still stand. |
I don't think my pride would allow me to say I took help. I once had a conversation with someone who said the only reason Mexicans can get into a top University is through the measures for equality enacted during the 1970's in the United States.
Is it arrogant if I want to show that I don't need any help? If I take any help, someone can simply say I was weak and didn't do it properly.
Call it pride, call it arrogance, I rather have that then the opposite, an inferiority complex.
It feels very good to be able to say I didn't need help from anyone. The people we look up to most in society are those that pulled themselves up by their boot strings.
This is my philosophy. It might be too harsh for you, so take it or leave it. Many people have said that living life according to a Nietzschean point of view "isn't practical". Thats fine. Some people have pointed out that those same people could never handle holding themselves up to those same standards - I wouldn't know, I haven't examined the question enough.
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curiouslittleboy
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 07, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | curiouslittleboy wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | If you can't keep your insults to yourself, I'll be reporting you to the mod. Anyone else have anything constructive? |
Ok, I'll admit, I went over the top with those ones, however, my points still stand. |
I don't think my pride would allow me to say I took help. I once had a conversation with someone who said the only reason Mexicans can get into a top University is through the measures for equality enacted during the 1970's in the United States.
Is it arrogant if I want to show that I don't need any help? If I take any help, someone can simply say I was weak and didn't do it properly.
Call it pride, call it arrogance, I rather have that then the opposite, an inferiority complex. |
That person strikes me as racist. You have to judge people individually.
I can understand your point.
However, for my case, I find it more rewarding to have said inferiority complex. It keeps you on your toes, competitive and more open to change.
Not to say I'd not rather be in middle of two.
You see, I'm one of those people who would have fallen in the cracks, were it not for the help of those people, and of those measures (time extentions etc), to help boost me up, and make me better, both academically, and especially socially. 
In my experience, about half of your education, both social AND academic comes from your classmates. Even colleges would say they'd rather have someone with a C in an AP class over someone with an A in its regular counterpart.
And even if worst comes to worst, and I were to end up in high end place like MIT but didn't "deserve" to be there, I would certainly at least try my hardest to be the best I can be during that time there. I would still try to soak up what I can, and still try to show the world (as I often am forced) that I AM the person they want for the job/school etc there.
Whether that means, learning when it's appropriate to accept help, and when to dissent, and try to even help others.
And while I'm at it,
Thanks for helping pushing me towards that happy medium of humble vs. arrogant, via these convo's. It's been fun. n.n |
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Kalister1
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Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I would rather take someone that got a C in an AP class.
That AP class person pushed himself very hard to get that C. I value hard work and determination over "smarts". I've met many smart, lazy people.
And I've met many people who weren't "smart", but who pushed themselves so hard that I felt horrible when they got a B.
I find I get really lazy if I'm not pushed hard. If I get too much help I'm like "Meh, you do it".
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curiouslittleboy
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 07, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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*nod* Very true. :3
Reminds me of when I was in AP Literature a few years ago. I struggled hard, I worked hard, but still managed to pull a B+ in the class.
Also, I understand that "smart but lazy thing." I've met my fair share of people who fit that description perfectly.
But most of the smart people I know are very hard workers.
I am one of them.
Also, while I was helped alot at first, did get less and less of it (I prefer doing stuff for myself, it makes me feel more independent.).
I'll admit, I do tend to be one of those "asks for help alot from teachers" dudes at worst. It's normally only when an assignment/instructions are unclear, I can't figure it out for myself, despite an hour's worth of brain racking, or when there's an error at the computer terminal I can't seem to figure out/fix.
Otherwise, I tend to be more of a lone wolf with assignments, even prefering to do them myself instead of working in a team, but still able to handle it, should the need arise. |
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ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5251
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| curiouslittleboy wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | curiouslittleboy wrote: | | @Kalister1: I need extended time too, asshole. >_> |
Well, the problem with that is you are competing for a very few spots, and you only get a limited amount of time. It is testing just how good you are at your subject. It wouldn't be fair if you get more time than the other students, who are also competing for the same spots.
Anyone can solve anything given enough time. Can you solve it in a VERY limited amount of time? The amount of study required goes up exponentially with each period of time shaved off, and it means you really know your subject, enough so you have near instant recall of anything from the entire course.
This also leads to smaller class sizes, and more dedicated professors, as many of the people who can't cope with this quickly drop. The professors who do this kind of weeding out usually do it because "they want to make sure all students who take them KNOW their subject", in other words they don't want you getting into the next class with only a limited command of the subject.
If you are able to do timed tests quickly, this means that the professor can also teach faster. Those who can't do it quickly are left at the wayside, allowing the rest of the class to progress at the required speed.
I just like to know that I don't need anything to help me, any crutch, as I find pushing myself harder and harder against a time limit is the best way to learn. I don't want anyone coming by later and said "oh, but you got extra time on the test!". Extra time on some of the tests I have taken is the difference between a C and an A, so it really does matter.
Its not being an asshole. Its being fair to all the students, who are all competing for a select number of spots. If everyone got an A (grade inflation), then there would be no way to weed out the bad students from the good students when the receiving school reviews that transfer paper. |
True, but lacking in complexity.
I did need extra time at first (sorry for not saying so) but got better at tests in general because I was homeschooled.
Depending on the subject, I may even be the first person to finish the test. :3
And just cuz I'm a bit slower than other students doesn't mean I'm not smart:
I got the Outstanding Achievement Award in German 2, for the highest grade of graduating seniors, and was in the top 3% of my class or higher, and one of (if not the highest) ranking MALE senior in my graduating class in my HS. a HS that's in the top 2% in the country in a class that has about 75% percent of its students on the honor roll, and is the best and biggest my school has ever seen. |
Congrats!
I just bolded what I thought was the most important part of this. I just think it's a bit harsh to judge people due to the amount of time people do things. People process things different, so it's not fair to expect them to be the same...
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"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead' |
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ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5251
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| curiouslittleboy wrote: | *nod* Very true. :3
Reminds me of when I was in AP Literature a few years ago. I struggled hard, I worked hard, but still managed to pull a B+ in the class.
Also, I understand that "smart but lazy thing." I've met my fair share of people who fit that description perfectly.
But most of the smart people I know are very hard workers.
I am one of them.
Also, while I was helped alot at first, did get less and less of it (I prefer doing stuff for myself, it makes me feel more independent.).
I'll admit, I do tend to be one of those "asks for help alot from teachers" dudes at worst. It's normally only when an assignment/instructions are unclear, I can't figure it out for myself, despite an hour's worth of brain racking, or when there's an error at the computer terminal I can't seem to figure out/fix.
Otherwise, I tend to be more of a lone wolf with assignments, even prefering to do them myself instead of working in a team, but still able to handle it, should the need arise. |
Wow, that's like me. I'll ask bunches of questions if I need to (enough to annoy teachers  ) but I'm usually really independent.
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"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead' |
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ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5251
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | I would rather take someone that got a C in an AP class.
That AP class person pushed himself very hard to get that C. I value hard work and determination over "smarts". I've met many smart, lazy people.
And I've met many people who weren't "smart", but who pushed themselves so hard that I felt horrible when they got a B.
I find I get really lazy if I'm not pushed hard. If I get too much help I'm like "Meh, you do it". |
Do you think that people who have extensions are lazy? Because in my resource room, there are only one or two people who do that, but most work just as hard as everybody else, IF not more.
_________________
"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead' |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | I would rather take someone that got a C in an AP class.
That AP class person pushed himself very hard to get that C. I value hard work and determination over "smarts". I've met many smart, lazy people.
And I've met many people who weren't "smart", but who pushed themselves so hard that I felt horrible when they got a B.
I find I get really lazy if I'm not pushed hard. If I get too much help I'm like "Meh, you do it". |
Do you think that people who have extensions are lazy? Because in my resource room, there are only one or two people who do that, but most work just as hard as everybody else, IF not more. |
Most people who take extensions just are procrastinators, or didn't study enough.
Also, the ability to do something is measured by how long it takes to do it, and correctly. Stop having a flawed definition of it.
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ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5251
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | I would rather take someone that got a C in an AP class.
That AP class person pushed himself very hard to get that C. I value hard work and determination over "smarts". I've met many smart, lazy people.
And I've met many people who weren't "smart", but who pushed themselves so hard that I felt horrible when they got a B.
I find I get really lazy if I'm not pushed hard. If I get too much help I'm like "Meh, you do it". |
Do you think that people who have extensions are lazy? Because in my resource room, there are only one or two people who do that, but most work just as hard as everybody else, IF not more. |
Most people who take extensions just are procrastinators, or didn't study enough.
Also, the ability to do something is measured by how long it takes to do it, and correctly. Stop having a flawed definition of it. |
Using most people is a generalization. I think you need some facts to back up your beliefs. I have my own experiences (I'm not a procrastinator), plus I'm in a resource room every day with people who are always working - even at lunch sometimes like me.
_________________
"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead' |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | I would rather take someone that got a C in an AP class.
That AP class person pushed himself very hard to get that C. I value hard work and determination over "smarts". I've met many smart, lazy people.
And I've met many people who weren't "smart", but who pushed themselves so hard that I felt horrible when they got a B.
I find I get really lazy if I'm not pushed hard. If I get too much help I'm like "Meh, you do it". |
Do you think that people who have extensions are lazy? Because in my resource room, there are only one or two people who do that, but most work just as hard as everybody else, IF not more. |
Most people who take extensions just are procrastinators, or didn't study enough.
Also, the ability to do something is measured by how long it takes to do it, and correctly. Stop having a flawed definition of it. |
Using most people is a generalization. I think you need some facts to back up your beliefs. I have my own experiences (I'm not a procrastinator), plus I'm in a resource room every day with people who are always working - even at lunch sometimes like me. |
Okay, here is some facts:
Employers don't care if you have Aspergers. They want the graduate who can do the job the best, which includes how fast they can do it. End of discussion. You make the grade or you don't. The reason you go to school is so you can get a job afterwards, and employers want to know that the school isn't just letting anyone pass; only those who can do the job best can make the cut.
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Warghh!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Kalister1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5251
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | | ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | | ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | I would rather take someone that got a C in an AP class.
That AP class person pushed himself very hard to get that C. I value hard work and determination over "smarts". I've met many smart, lazy people.
And I've met many people who weren't "smart", but who pushed themselves so hard that I felt horrible when they got a B.
I find I get really lazy if I'm not pushed hard. If I get too much help I'm like "Meh, you do it". |
Do you think that people who have extensions are lazy? Because in my resource room, there are only one or two people who do that, but most work just as hard as everybody else, IF not more. |
Most people who take extensions just are procrastinators, or didn't study enough.
Also, the ability to do something is measured by how long it takes to do it, and correctly. Stop having a flawed definition of it. |
Using most people is a generalization. I think you need some facts to back up your beliefs. I have my own experiences (I'm not a procrastinator), plus I'm in a resource room every day with people who are always working - even at lunch sometimes like me. |
Okay, here is some facts:
Employers don't care if you have Aspergers. They want the graduate who can do the job the best, which includes how fast they can do it. End of discussion. You make the grade or you don't. |
Includes, that's not the only factor. Creativity and good teamwork are some other factors that don't require speed.
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"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead' |
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