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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3694
Location: Room 101
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 Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| curiouslittleboy wrote: | | Orwell wrote: | | Well, when you go by that method someone gets screwed. I may be a little bitter, because I was that "someone" when I was younger. |
Same. still am in certain ways.. |
I'm currently starting the process of securing accommodations for college next year, and the university is not being even remotely helpful. It's rather frustrating.
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curiouslittleboy
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 07, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | curiouslittleboy wrote: | | Orwell wrote: | | Well, when you go by that method someone gets screwed. I may be a little bitter, because I was that "someone" when I was younger. |
Same. still am in certain ways.. |
I'm currently starting the process of securing accommodations for college next year, and the university is not being even remotely helpful. It's rather frustrating. |
...that's...not good.
back on topic: ..at least I think back on topic:
Eh, I find actually studying for and taking practice exams helps tremendiously.
By doing so, you'll know the format, style of questions, go over material in a (proven) way that's better than studying/reviewing. etc |
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DragonKazooie89
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I had no troubles with classes. I graduated high school with high honors. The only problems I had were the speaking assignments in Spanish, getting into groups that weren't assigned and I had a hard time concentrating on my work unless it was a timed assignment or taking a test. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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I just got an 86% on one of my timed tests. If only I had more time...
Its all fair.
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3694
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | I just got an 86% on one of my timed tests. If only I had more time...
Its all fair. |
I do fine on timed tests—there were some AP tests that I finished in about half the time given. My trouble comes when I'm in a noisy room. I got a C on my first calc test because of a noisy room, despite knowing everything on the test cold.
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ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5251
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | I just got an 86% on one of my timed tests. If only I had more time...
Its all fair. |
 Aren't you the person that's been talking about the wonders of timed tests and how you're not smart if you can't do them? 
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ebec11 wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | I just got an 86% on one of my timed tests. If only I had more time...
Its all fair. |
Aren't you the person that's been talking about the wonders of timed tests and how you're not smart if you can't do them? |
I think you need to re read my posts, Ebec. Its all about fairness, and if one student gets more time that wouldn't be fair to someone like me, who could of used more time.
Also, I would of got 100%, but this professor is a sadist who likes to dock points if he doesn't like the way you answered the question. But, if he does it to me, he does it to everyone.
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Last edited by Kalister1 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | I just got an 86% on one of my timed tests. If only I had more time...
Its all fair. |
I do fine on timed tests—there were some AP tests that I finished in about half the time given. My trouble comes when I'm in a noisy room. I got a C on my first calc test because of a noisy room, despite knowing everything on the test cold. |
Its only fair, though noise I is dumb; they should give an option for a non noisy room. They don't set one of the parameters of the test as "Each student requires equal noise". Though, if they did (which would be kind of odd, and doesn't really test you're ability to do the material), that would be..odd..
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wolphin
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | Its all about fairness, and if one student gets more time that wouldn't be fair to someone like me, who could of used more time.
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Sure it's about fairness. It's not fair that someone who doesn't have a LD has an enormous advantage. Which (given that now I highly doubt that you have a LD) gives you an unfair advantage over me.
And of course, never mind all the studies that say that additional time on standardized tests benefit people with LD's far more than non-LD people.
I'd even go so far to say that I wouldn't mind if everyone got extra time, except for: 1) it would be an enormous hassle for professors, and 2) professors would just make the tests longer to fill the time for everyone, negating the whole point of additional time
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Also, I would of got 100%, but this professor is a sadist who likes to dock points if he doesn't like the way you answered the question. But, if he does it to me, he does it to everyone. |
Yeah, we've all had professors like that.
| Quote: | | Its only fair, though noise I is dumb; they should give an option for a non noisy room. They don't set one of the parameters of the test as "Each student requires equal noise". Though, if they did (which would be kind of odd, and doesn't really test you're ability to do the material), that would be..odd.. |
Odd, because you can make the same exact argument about time - testing how fast someone works doesn't really test that person's ability to do the material. Unless it's a course in "speed reading" and your grade depends on how fast you read.
I don't know about your school, but grades from my college usually indicate what a student knows, not how fast they can work. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| wolphin wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: | Its all about fairness, and if one student gets more time that wouldn't be fair to someone like me, who could of used more time.
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Sure it's about fairness. It's not fair that someone who doesn't have a LD has an enormous advantage. Which (given that now I highly doubt that you have a LD) gives you an unfair advantage over me.
And of course, never mind all the studies that say that additional time on standardized tests benefit people with LD's far more than non-LD people.
I'd even go so far to say that I wouldn't mind if everyone got extra time, except for: 1) it would be an enormous hassle for professors, and 2) professors would just make the tests longer to fill the time for everyone, negating the whole point of additional time
| Quote: |
Also, I would of got 100%, but this professor is a sadist who likes to dock points if he doesn't like the way you answered the question. But, if he does it to me, he does it to everyone. |
Yeah, we've all had professors like that.
| Quote: | | Its only fair, though noise I is dumb; they should give an option for a non noisy room. They don't set one of the parameters of the test as "Each student requires equal noise". Though, if they did (which would be kind of odd, and doesn't really test you're ability to do the material), that would be..odd.. |
Odd, because you can make the same exact argument about time - testing how fast someone works doesn't really test that person's ability to do the material. Unless it's a course in "speed reading" and your grade depends on how fast you read.
I don't know about your school, but grades from my college usually indicate what a student knows, not how fast they can work. |
I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what college is about. Some people say its about learning, though many professors have told me they personally feel its about "weeding out those that can't cope". The faster someone can do something, and with correct answers, equates to how good they are at it.
Also I could say that higher I.Q. gives people a huge advantage, why don't we give more time and a better grade for people with less I.Q.? Its a learning disadvantage. Also, I only mean this in regards to Aspergers, which is considered a social disability.
Grades at schools aren't about knowledge, at least from what I've gathered for Electrical Engineering majors, but for how fast you can do it correctly. Everything is timed.
As Neal Stephenson so eloquently put it, people judge you on "how fast you can debug your sub routines"  The business world doesn't care about anything except how fast you can do something, and the schools are meant to train you for the business world. So, in my major, yes time is definitely a factor.
School has morphed from being a place of learning to being a place of competition, dog eat dog. I don't mean this in regards to High School, I mean this in regards to post High school education.
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wolphin
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: | I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what college is about. Some people say its about learning, though many professors have told me they personally feel its about "weeding out those that can't cope". The faster someone can do something, and with correct answers, equates to how good they are at it.
Also I could say that higher I.Q. gives people a huge advantage, why don't we give more time and a better grade for people with less I.Q.? Its a learning disadvantage. Also, I only mean this in regards to Aspergers, which is considered a social disability.
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Fine, I accept that premise - having aspergers doesn't necessarily imply a learning disability, or any need for extra time. Nevertheless my point stands, for the reason that many people with aspergers also have a specific learning disability as well (such as myself, aspergers + dysgraphia)
If the person with lower IQ is capable of doing the work and understanding the material equivalent to an average student, but has difficulty demonstrating this knowledge on exams, there is no reason why they should not be given accommodations that allow them to express this on exams (if that is the difficulty). IQ is rather meaningless as a measure of intelligence anyways.
| Quote: |
Grades at schools aren't about knowledge, at least from what I've gathered for Electrical Engineering majors, but for how fast you can do it correctly. Everything is timed.
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I'm not an electrical engineering major, but one of my best friends is (and I took 2 or 3 classes with him for my out-of-major requirement) and most certainly it wasn't this way. One class was easily 50% lab work and the other class, the professor actually offered as much time as anyone wanted on exams for any reason, no disability required (I personally took 2 3/4 hours on the 2 hour final)
Obviously, different at different schools, though (and besides the point.)
| Quote: |
School has morphed from being a place of learning to being a place of competition, dog eat dog. I don't mean this in regards to High School, I mean this in regards to post High school education. |
True, but this is nothing new - in the vietnam era, where graduate study could have meant a deferral from the draft, certainly the stakes for grades were much higher than even now.
In fact, this only makes it more important that accommodations such as extra time are provided, when needed. Otherwise, the disadvantages make it nearly impossible to be competitive. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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I think we have different ideas of what exams should be about.
Professors I know use exams to weed out "those who can't cope". This means making them impossibly hard. They WANT you to drop, its the whole point. They become so competitive, and grueling, that it makes it impossibly hard sometimes. This is just a small college in California, which justifies it by saying "no grade inflation", since you're going to be using these grades to get into a 4 year university (Don't ask me about the incredible amounts of bullshit that goes on here). Disability or not disability, these people do not care about your situation, only that your competing with students who might be able to do it better than you, and they want those students to get a better grade than you.
This is the point of view I'm taking. Maybe your school actually tests knowledge. Mine tests if you can take ungodly amounts of bullshit, at least thats what it seems to me.
Let me tell you a story about my computer science professor:
He had gotten an email from a student asking for "more time on an exam" (He gave them a time limit of one day, for an impossibly hard number of logic problems, that even I had couldn't finish within the alloted time). He proceeded to stride to the front of the class, open the email on the screen, and proclaim "This is the kind of person who gets an F in my class. Oh boo hoo, I don't have enough time! Whiner, complainer, you don't get breaks in life, and you certainly don't get them in my class".
He is one of the best professors I've been with, and I love his classes. He doesn't teach, but simply gives you the book and says "Learn". His exams are tough, and if you ask a stupid question he'll make sure you know its stupid, and how you in turn are stupid.
He has won the ACM programming competition for jr colleges, with no graduate students, every year for almost a half a decade. The man is a programming god, but he instills in you a sense of "dog eat dog". I have met may professors like him, and still don't understand where you get these benevolent professors from :S Mine will totally work you in the ground, and won't give you any breaks.
One girl in my last class went blind, and walked out crying because the professor was pretty much like "tough, you either get an F or an incomplete". He said it more nicely, but that was the way it seemed to me, though it was sort of out of his hands. She literally woke up one day, blind, and couldn't study for the final exam.
He explained how he intends every person in the class to be force to take it 2 or 3 times "just to pass". He doesn't expect anyone to pass any of his classes the first time. I almost got an A, but got a B I believe. It was one of the most rewarding classes ever, but extremely difficult. Everyone on ratemyprofessor says he talks down to you, and will give you impossibly hard tests. Maybe I just get put with the insane professors.
We come from completely different worlds. In my experience, exams have been used to make people drop, to weed out the "undesirables". I'm still trying to develop empathy towards people who have "special needs", but I don't think I'll ever be able to see it in that fashion. For too many years now, I've been told asking for help isn't something a successful student does, and asking for extra time on the exams has gotten more than one student ridiculed in my experience.
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wolphin
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, I never meant that I'd only ever had benevolent professors. Especially in the classes I took - lots of science and math, the "weed-out classes" like calculus, physics, etc., which have high failure/dropout rates. Definitely no grade inflation here, either. Average GPA in my major, last I heard, ran about 2.9
The EE class I took, the 50% labs one, easily took 15 hours a week worth solely of lab time (in addition to the lecture part and the 4 other classes I was taking). It definitely was a "work you in the ground" type course.
But all I'm saying is that (with a couple exceptions, of course) most of the classes I've taken, the primary assessment isn't how fast you can work, it's your knowledge of the material, and your problem solving skills.
As for if a professor ever publicly ridiculed me in class (beyond the lighthearted stuff that I'm sure we've all experienced), that's worth a complaint, particularly as it could potentially be against university policy (of course, policy varies). If a professor reveals or implies in class that a student is failing, or reveals any kind of student disability (when either of those are the case) then it could also potentially be illegal, as well. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well, his response was, "I have tenure, I'll be here until the walls come crumbling down"
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Tori-kun
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 69
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Space wrote: | | I think AS is called a "non verbal learning disability"... or something like that. |
Well, I don't know what kind it's called, but I do know most schools consider asperger's by itself as a learning disability, in that, the college must provide you LD assistance if you need it.
My dean of student services pulled me aside, and asked me what kind of assistance I would need, but I really couldn't think of anything, and I managed to pull a 4.0 last semester without any extra help!
Although if I do start falling behind, then we're supposed to pull my teacher's aside and explain my condition so I can get extra help. |
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