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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 6182
Location: The Emerald Forest
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 Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | No Merle, you are not. IMO Men & women are equally responsible for the miseries of the human race. Had Eve not eaten that piece of fruit and had Adam not tried some ...
*this biblical reference is intended as allegory* |
oh! that myth from Genesis is something to break my heart with
woman as a cruel temptress is an image I would like to part with
tell it to a boy, before he is five,
he'll be blaming women for the rest of his life.
Oh that myth from Genesis is something to break my heart with!
Allagory or not, it sets up the idea that women are somehow the enemy, or the friend of an enemy (the devil). Guess it shows who made up the religion in the first place.
Merle |
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Lene
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 28, 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Pluto
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, I think I must be missing something here (quite likely, so I apologise in advance). She told you after the first date that she just wanted to be friends. How is that playing games? if anything, you're the one who's not being totally honest (with her or yourself)- she thinks of you as a friend. You still think of her as a potential love interest. It's not going to happen. Either remain 'friends', or move on, but don't blame her just because she doesn't fancy you back. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 6182
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: | | sinsboldly wrote: | | D1nk0 wrote: | Here's a fundamental question which Ive been unable to answer myself or get an answer: WHY, yes Why do women play all these social/emotional/mind games? Especially the young ones  Is it because they havent figured out what they want? Is it cuz they often have conflicting impulses and feelings and they're trying not to be too blunt with people? Perhaps a better question is why are women so incredibly dishonest and disingenuous when it comes to relationships..............  |
it almost begs the question, if not all women do this, why are men attracted to women who do this?
I mean, aren't the men somewhat responsible for whom they chose to have play with their heads?
in the last 30 years women have been taught to be selective of what men they chose, how to spot the bullies, the beaters, the emotional vampires. Why aren't men more aware of whom they are choosing as potential partners?
It just seems to make sense that men are just as responsible for whom they associate with as women. Or am I way out of line, here?
Merle |
Not at all. Bear in mind that there is Always going to be an exception to every rule you make about human behaviour; but if More than half of one sex behaves a certain way-ESPECIALLY within a certain age range-it really begs the question in my mind as to what their motives are for doing what they do.I certainly would NEVER associate with a woman who I KNEW was manipulative and dishonest! But you see, the very nature of dishonest people is that they are very good at fooling those they meet for the first time about their true nature. There certainly ARE man who are good at decieving women, but even if I had those intentions I personaly Wouldnt get very far with it cuz I am a VERY bad liar(or so Im told). Lying is very much a social skill, to be good at it you have to *read* people in order to determine what they're likely to believe and not to believe.You see-one of the most OBVIOUS behavioral differences between the sexs that Ive noticed first hand is that MOST women are FAR less direct than men; and that certainly DOES include women with aggressive impulses.Aggression in women is VERY REAL but its rarely direct and seldom physical(towards men), so it often goes undetected. Am I making any sense Merle? |
What I get out of what you are saying is you don't know you are being manipulated until after you've put your foot in it. Is that right?
and somehow you feel that it is wrong for someone to take advantage of your propensity to be manipulated, or. . . having allowed your self to be manipulated, somehow you don't feel you got what you ah. . .(for lack of better way to put it) paid for
is that it? Or did I miss it entirely?
Merle |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Merle: yes, that is correct.
EvilKimEvil: I acknowledge that there are many different kinds of women with different personality types....But what frustrates me is that you folks dont seem to get the point Im trying to make so I'll spell it out for you:
Dishonesty is NOT a personality trait! It is a LEARNED BEHAVIOUR!! I do realize there are some people who are compulsively dishonest but these people are by NO means the majority. People are dishonest because it WORKS! Dishonesty is am amazingly effective way to get what you want from people; especially since we live in a sociey where people arent allowed to take what they want from others by force(with some rare exceptions). I believe that men and women want the same things, but from what I see and hear they go about getting those things in different ways. Part of this is because society has a double standard when it comes to the sexes; in fact pretty much ALL cultures treat men and women differently and Ive yet to be convinced that its even possible to convince to get people to treat men and women exactly the same way.
Last edited by D1nk0 on Sun May 04, 2008 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KenM
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Posts: 413
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Lene wrote: | | Ok, I think I must be missing something here (quite likely, so I apologise in advance). She told you after the first date that she just wanted to be friends. How is that playing games? if anything, you're the one who's not being totally honest (with her or yourself)- she thinks of you as a friend. You still think of her as a potential love interest. It's not going to happen. Either remain 'friends', or move on, but don't blame her just because she doesn't fancy you back. |
I was OK with that. What I was upset about was later on, after she told me about the other guys she was interested in. Then she tells me that she made up her mind about us staying friends before we even met me. She just told me the other things just to make me feel better. I've read posts here say that she may have mis understood what I meant when I told her that I had AS and I need her to be totally honest with me. I'd be alot more upset if she was not honest with me.
How the heck can a statement like that be misunderstood? Pretty diect, IMO.
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There is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of armageeddon I shall not compromise in this.
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Lene
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 28, 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Pluto
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | | Lene wrote: | | Ok, I think I must be missing something here (quite likely, so I apologise in advance). She told you after the first date that she just wanted to be friends. How is that playing games? if anything, you're the one who's not being totally honest (with her or yourself)- she thinks of you as a friend. You still think of her as a potential love interest. It's not going to happen. Either remain 'friends', or move on, but don't blame her just because she doesn't fancy you back. |
I was OK with that. What I was upset about was later on, after she told me about the other guys she was interested in. Then she tells me that she made up her mind about us staying friends before we even met me. She just told me the other things just to make me feel better. I've read posts here say that she may have mis understood what I meant when I told her that I had AS and I need her to be totally honest with me. I'd be alot more upset if
How the heck can a statement like that be misunderstood? Pretty diect, IMO. |
Well, to be fair, she only 'led you on' for one date, but yeah, I do see why you're annoyed.
What were her reasons for going on that date in the first place, mind me asking? I'm sure it wasn't just to wind you up- she doesn't sound like the type if she was honest enough to tell you straight afterwards that it wasn't going to work. You've been friends for 6 months- I know you're pissed off at the moment, but is it really that bad that you wish she'd end up in Hell?
(edit): for a lot of NTs, 'being totally honest' is kind of the same as 'being rude'- I think she was probably as honest as she felt she could be without hurting you too much. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 6182
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Lene wrote: | | KenM wrote: | | Lene wrote: | | Ok, I think I must be missing something here (quite likely, so I apologise in advance). She told you after the first date that she just wanted to be friends. How is that playing games? if anything, you're the one who's not being totally honest (with her or yourself)- she thinks of you as a friend. You still think of her as a potential love interest. It's not going to happen. Either remain 'friends', or move on, but don't blame her just because she doesn't fancy you back. |
I was OK with that. What I was upset about was later on, after she told me about the other guys she was interested in. Then she tells me that she made up her mind about us staying friends before we even met me. She just told me the other things just to make me feel better. I've read posts here say that she may have mis understood what I meant when I told her that I had AS and I need her to be totally honest with me. I'd be alot more upset if
How the heck can a statement like that be misunderstood? Pretty diect, IMO. |
Well, to be fair, she only 'led you on' for one date, but yeah, I do see why you're annoyed.
What were her reasons for going on that date in the first place, mind me asking? I'm sure it wasn't just to wind you up- she doesn't sound like the type if she was honest enough to tell you straight afterwards that it wasn't going to work. You've been friends for 6 months- I know you're pissed off at the moment, but is it really that bad that you wish she'd end up in Hell? |
you know, for years and years I was on the old Yahoo. I was damned straight to hell for answering back some HNG's first IM with a polite 'no, thank you. Somehow they didn't realize that a DATE meant you were evaluating the potential of the other person to fit into your life. People seem to disregard that it takes a man about 30 seconds to determine if they are interested in a woman and a woman about 30 minutes.
so being damned (straight or not) to hell for being involved in someone's ELSE's ego play is always problematic. |
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KenM
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Posts: 413
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Lene wrote: |
Well, to be fair, she only 'led you on' for one date, but yeah, I do see why you're annoyed.
What were her reasons for going on that date in the first place, mind me asking? I'm sure it wasn't just to wind you up- she doesn't sound like the type if she was honest enough to tell you straight afterwards that it wasn't going to work. You've been friends for 6 months- I know you're pissed off at the moment, but is it really that bad that you wish she'd end up in Hell? |
The date was her companies holiday party and she wanted me to go with her. What I'm really upset about was I feel she gave me the impression that she was open to having a deeper relationship with me after worked on her issues. She also made it seem like she came into the date with an open mind, and she told me she would see how she felt after the first date. Then she tells me she made up her mind even before we met for the first time, we would stay friends and thats it, no matter what. This is after we went out a few more times. I'm upset that she did not tell me that from the start, even though I told her I like people to be totally straght with me. I feel lied to and betrayed. I also told her about my last girl and the many mixed signals she sent me. She thought that was wrong. |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: | | Lene wrote: | | KenM wrote: | | Lene wrote: | | Ok, I think I must be missing something here (quite likely, so I apologise in advance). She told you after the first date that she just wanted to be friends. How is that playing games? if anything, you're the one who's not being totally honest (with her or yourself)- she thinks of you as a friend. You still think of her as a potential love interest. It's not going to happen. Either remain 'friends', or move on, but don't blame her just because she doesn't fancy you back. |
I was OK with that. What I was upset about was later on, after she told me about the other guys she was interested in. Then she tells me that she made up her mind about us staying friends before we even met me. She just told me the other things just to make me feel better. I've read posts here say that she may have mis understood what I meant when I told her that I had AS and I need her to be totally honest with me. I'd be alot more upset if
How the heck can a statement like that be misunderstood? Pretty diect, IMO. |
Well, to be fair, she only 'led you on' for one date, but yeah, I do see why you're annoyed.
What were her reasons for going on that date in the first place, mind me asking? I'm sure it wasn't just to wind you up- she doesn't sound like the type if she was honest enough to tell you straight afterwards that it wasn't going to work. You've been friends for 6 months- I know you're pissed off at the moment, but is it really that bad that you wish she'd end up in Hell? |
you know, for years and years I was on the old Yahoo. I was damned straight to hell for answering back some HNG's first IM with a polite 'no, thank you. Somehow they didn't realize that a DATE meant you were evaluating the potential of the other person to fit into your life. People seem to disregard that it takes a man about 30 seconds to determine if they are interested in a woman and a woman about 30 minutes.
so being damned (straight or not) to hell for being involved in someone's ELSE's ego play is always problematic. |
Damned if you do, Damned if you dont..... |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 6182
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | | Lene wrote: |
Well, to be fair, she only 'led you on' for one date, but yeah, I do see why you're annoyed.
What were her reasons for going on that date in the first place, mind me asking? I'm sure it wasn't just to wind you up- she doesn't sound like the type if she was honest enough to tell you straight afterwards that it wasn't going to work. You've been friends for 6 months- I know you're pissed off at the moment, but is it really that bad that you wish she'd end up in Hell? |
The date was her companies holiday party and she wanted me to go with her. What I'm really upset about was I feel she gave me the impression that she was open to having a deeper relationship with me after worked on her issues. She also made it seem like she came into the date with an open mind, and she told me she would see how she felt after the first date. Then she tells me she made up her mind even before we met for the first time, we would stay friends and thats it, no matter what. This is after we went out a few more times. I'm upset that she did not tell me that from the start, even though I told her I like people to be totally straght with me. I feel lied to and betrayed. I also told her about my last girl and the many mixed signals she sent me. She thought that was wrong. |
so you think that kicking at the dirt and fretting is going to charm her into wanting to rethink her opinion of you? Did you ever tell her 'what ever you decide to do is all right with me?' Did you lead her to believe that 'you could be friends even if there was no romance between you?"
Did you ever say or lead her to think that you had an open mind about the relationship and was just getting to know her to find out if you two were compatible?
Or did you tell her from the beginning you were committed to making it work, that you would be devastated if it didn't work out and you would want her damned to hell if it didn't go your way?
just curious,
Merle |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: | so you think that kicking at the dirt and fretting is going to charm her into wanting to rethink her opinion of you? Did you ever tell her 'what ever you decide to do is all right with me?' Did you lead her to believe that 'you could be friends even if there was no romance between you?"
Did you ever say or lead her to think that you had an open mind about the relationship and was just getting to know her to find out if you two were compatible?
Or did you tell her from the beginning you were committed to making it work, that you would be devastated if it didn't work out and you would want her damned to hell if it didn't go your way?
just curious,
Merle |
A little bitter now arent we Merle?  |
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KenM
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Posts: 413
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: |
so you think that kicking at the dirt and fretting is going to charm her into wanting to rethink her opinion of you? Did you ever tell her 'what ever you decide to do is all right with me?' Did you lead her to believe that 'you could be friends even if there was no romance between you?"
Did you ever say or lead her to think that you had an open mind about the relationship and was just getting to know her to find out if you two were compatible?
Or did you tell her from the beginning you were committed to making it work, that you would be devastated if it didn't work out and you would want her damned to hell if it didn't go your way?
just curious,
Merle |
I don't want her back, even as a friend. I could care less of what she thinks of me. I came into the date with an open mind and when the date ended I thought that there may be something more there. I was a little hurt she just wanted to stay friends for now, but I accepted thats what she wanted at the time. At least thats what she made me think. What I did not know at the time was she had already made up her mind about me before we met. |
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LePetitPrince
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 2441
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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*ehem* watch out for yourself because juliekitty is going to kill you because of this title 
| Quote: | | Women generally don't like nice guys even though they pretend like they do. |
No, women generally like masculine guys and it just happen that most bad guys have masculine traits and most nice guys usually lack many masculine traits. |
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Daewoodrow
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 187
Location: Canterbury, England
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Do unto others, before they do unto you.
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Umquam sentio nex? |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 6182
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | | sinsboldly wrote: |
so you think that kicking at the dirt and fretting is going to charm her into wanting to rethink her opinion of you? Did you ever tell her 'what ever you decide to do is all right with me?' Did you lead her to believe that 'you could be friends even if there was no romance between you?"
Did you ever say or lead her to think that you had an open mind about the relationship and was just getting to know her to find out if you two were compatible?
Or did you tell her from the beginning you were committed to making it work, that you would be devastated if it didn't work out and you would want her damned to hell if it didn't go your way?
just curious,
Merle |
I don't want her back, even as a friend. I could care less of what she thinks of me. I came into the date with an open mind and when the date ended I thought that there may be something more there. I was a little hurt she just wanted to stay friends for now, but I accepted thats what she wanted at the time. At least thats what she made me think. What I did not know at the time was she had already made up her mind about me before we met. |
so you did not do anything at all to provoke her at the end of the relationship? you did not say or do anything at all that might convey you wanted her (and all other women, for good measure) damned to hell for the demons they are?
again, just curious,
Merle |
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