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Liopleurodon
Sea Gull
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 211
Location: The Tethys Sea
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 Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Umm... I always thought that men went to war because they tend to be physically stronger, and women bear children because they are the ones equipped with a uterus. Sure, there are hormonal influences in there. But if it were purely innate biological drives, all men would be out killing people, and all women would be at home baking pies and going gooey over babies. This is not the case.
I really think that as soon as you get into "I know! You do this because you're a woman!" you're not showing respect for the other person, and the fact that they could have any number of emotional and motivational drives for the things that they do. What is wrong with, "I don't understand why you do this, but I want to understand. Could you maybe explain it to me?" Blanket generalisations about something over which the other person has no control, such as their gender (or race, or age, or disability) are not good for a relationship. They break down communication. I also think that it's incredibly manipulative to try to steer the other person's behaviour in a particular way by responding to preconceived ideas about their gender rather than by actually listening to them.
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Do I look like a freaking people person? |
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srriv345
Velociraptor
Joined: Jul 19, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't put too much stock in a pop-psychology book based on gross generalizations which may or may not be true of given individual, AS or NT. People have individual communication styles, and making assumptions based on gender can often be a mistake. |
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tbam
Raven
Joined: Feb 16, 2008
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I meant to post this yesterday but my net had did a backflip and forehead-slapped itself.
| mom2bax wrote: |
what i want is for someone to bring me flowers just because, for no special reason. or to have someone just hold me when i'm having a bad day, and i just want you to know it without telling you, not to play mind games but i believe once you've been with someone long enough you should know what they want and need in general, and if you don't you can always ask.
eg. i know you're upset, what can i do for you,
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I'm all for being random, and romantic. However getting flowers for a random occasion and then being accused of cheating or given the third degree on why I have bought the flowers tends to make me not want to buy them anymore.
Or sitting in front of the couch and feeling as though everything is ok, then all of a sudden "I don't want to have kids with you".... I mean What the????
Later I found out, what she meant was that she wanted me to step up and say "but hey, I want kids with you".
I mean I'm all for compromise, but to me, the compromise would be the person simply saying what they mean, so they get the response they were looking for - Everyone wins.
I mean, instead of saying "You never support me" and meaning "I feel a bit underappreciated, please tell me how much I mean to you and what i'm successful at and give me a reassuring hug and tell me you love me", why don't they just say "I'm feeling a bit down, can you give me a hug?"
Isn't that more of a compromise than the other having to make guesses (potentially wrong guesses) and then give hugs whilst wondering "Hey, I do support you, whats this all about?".
It just seems a little unballanced to me. The book constantly talks about Males and Females being different races, with different languages and then basically gets the man to do whatever the woman wants in exchange for him being able to "go into his cave". I mean, I don't care about my cave if my wife is still going to sit there and make sweeping statements like "I don't think we'll last" when she just wants re-assurance and a hug because she's had a bad day.
P.S
I totally get where you're coming from ASPIEd, I used to get in big trouble at work for upsetting people because I didn't put that fluff in there. I would say "The number is wrong, please fix it and make sure you don't make the same error in the future", then all of a sudden I'd be called into a meeting being told "I can't write emails like that to people". ughh |
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Anemone
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 829
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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I never really got much out of the first book (I was grumbling in my cave too much), but I got a lot out of Mars and Venus on a Date, and the one about the workplace explained a few things to me, too. There are biologically based sex differences, as well as culturally induced ones, as well as a lot of wishful thinking about said differences.
I think the main thing to get out of Gray's books is that it is possible to be different and still be treated with equal respect. You can be different and equal at the same time. (Old school says any differences mean differences in rank, so it tries to erase differences to achieve equality.) Gray goes to a lot of effort to portray both typically masculine and typically feminine behaviour as valid and worthy of respect. He doesn't want to change anyone i.e. make men more like women or women more like men, but he does offer tips on how you can communicate better with someone who's in the other group if you are so motivated. Giving a book to someone and saying "please read" is kind of like asking the other person to change first. It might be savvier for the person who buys the book to read it and try changing her/his tactics first, to see what works, before asking the other person to change.
And yes, some of us are from Pluto. |
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DeepBlueLake
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: North of England
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Can't say I'm a fan of John Gray. While his books contain many interesting observations (NOT principles) about human behaviour, at the bottom there is a deep, dark hole. His core idea is that people nowadays live such isolated lives that couples have to act like a same-sex friend to one another. He just takes this for granted. |
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