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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think the big thing is that nts assume we don't ahve it, because we don't show it in the way they expect.
Yes I understand the issues that lead to bf's father making mistakes when he engages in the father's role, but I see no point in commenting on that. Why should I? The issue to be concerned with is that his parenting style sucks, not the past influences on such styles. So i tell him his parenting style sucks because he doesn't do this or that. (He's an aspie and doesn't have a problem with my saying that). I don't say, "I understand you are trying your best and that some times emotions get the best of you." because well, its completely irrelevent.
not the best example but I think it proves my point |
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 2401
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Inventor wrote: | I can read emotion. That is all of empathy.
What I read is they are trying for a lie that would fail in words.
What about my feelings? Someone wants more than they deserve, or to not get what they do.
Emotion to me is all manipulation.
Dogs use emotion, it is not a high art.
I have sympathy, help when I can.
My non response to emotional maniulation is what they are reading.
Empathy for the dead? How? They are having zero emotions.
Sympathy for the dead? I know just how you feel?
The Psychobabble of Feelings? |
Good post, Inventor. Haven't seen you as much on here the past couple weeks, hope all is well. My question is, do you think that NTs (and even Aspies) frequently confuse empathy with sympathy?
Empathy: The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
Sympathy: Feelings of pity or sorrow for someone else's misfortune; understanding between people; responding in a way that corresponds to another action or event.
Just a thought.
M.
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He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
Why choose a lesser evil? Vote Cthulhu 2008! |
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Jetfox
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 865
Location: the black hole
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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yes but i really only show it more for my electronics and cats more the anything, i still have a hard time dealing with the events of my cats dieing, or kirby's attack.
so yes aspies are capable of empathy i just feel it is a waste of time but with my cats and electronics i really have no control, sorry if i sound a bit cold.
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"It's the song of destruction a requim of the end" jr in xenosaga III |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 2840
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| makuranososhi wrote: | | Inventor wrote: | I can read emotion. That is all of empathy.
What I read is they are trying for a lie that would fail in words.
What about my feelings? Someone wants more than they deserve, or to not get what they do.
Emotion to me is all manipulation.
Dogs use emotion, it is not a high art.
I have sympathy, help when I can.
My non response to emotional maniulation is what they are reading.
Empathy for the dead? How? They are having zero emotions.
Sympathy for the dead? I know just how you feel?
The Psychobabble of Feelings? |
Good post, Inventor. Haven't seen you as much on here the past couple weeks, hope all is well. My question is, do you think that NTs (and even Aspies) frequently confuse empathy with sympathy?
Empathy: The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
Sympathy: Feelings of pity or sorrow for someone else's misfortune; understanding between people; responding in a way that corresponds to another action or event.
Just a thought.
M. |
I think both are confused, and used as thought replacement.
I think, therefore I am damned.
I found a horse tangled in a fence.
Empathy would be sharing it's feelings/emotions of being trapped and hurt.
Sympathy would be saying I am sorry you are in that mess.
I got down between four shod hooves and one by one pulled away the wires that cut flesh and caused pain. We were strangers. When I got the last leg free, pushed the fence back, then got out of the way, then the horse got up, and came and stood head to head with me. We were both thinking creatures.
I ignore what I see as fake, playing on my guilt and insecurity, I read it very well, I just ignore it.
Most human messes are self inflicted. How can I have sympathy for stupidity?
I am a most functional person in disasters, auto crashes, other injuries, and no one wants to hear how are you feeling, or I am so sorry. Someone who stops the bleeding and treats them for shock, who shows no emotion, and even a sense of humor, gets the job done. I can do nothing for the dead.
No way can I share a great personal loss, I have had them, that space will always be empty, and the thought returns after many years. All I can do is be myself unchanged, in a world that just changed.
I am a thinking and logical person, I will do what I can that I think is right, and that horse knew I put myself in great danger for it. Sometimes I scare myself. Logic overrules self preservation.
The main human emotion is fear. They try to dress it in other emotions. They fear, and try projecting anger or seeking sympathy. Some use emotion to get you off guard, so they can attack.
I think that is why we get such strong reactions, for we see through to the base emotion. Their cloaking does not work, ignore the emotional appeal, they try anger, How could you!, That ignored, they try I will beat you up, and when that is met, they leave.
Men and women are about the same. You must have a heart, you are cold blooded and withdrawn, somebody should teach you a lesson. The logic is, I should be able to manipulate you, you have failed me, I will punish you.
A dog growls at you, walk toward it, it will be gone by the time you get there.
We keep it simple, yes, no. They try many manipulations.
I can read people, most are running middle school games, things that worked on parents, things that worked on them.
I would call our lack of empathy and sympathy disbelief.
I am not very social, I do not like people.
I can deal with them in structured settings, they limit their behavior.
Lately business has been good, I have been keeping up, working on some new books, printing, and still get some WP time. I have this mental thing, little projects can run a few hundred hours, and I have a few larger ones in the works.
WP is great for we explore our thought in some depth. In a year here I have learned a lot about why do I... Still me, but it is better to know. A year ago I was just a weird loner. Now I belong to The Weird Loner Club.
WP has been a great help in putting the personal part in order, and that has lead to some advances in business.
WP has put my head in order, and increased my income. I think we are growing toward self defining, in a way the NT world would never see. We are becoming a Culture.
This is the most normal group of people I ever met. That is normal from my point of referance. |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1512
Location: North West United States
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I think to say we lack empathy is too general. There are different types of empathy.
One type of empathy is the one that leads people to instinctively try to please others. People on the spectrum tend to lack this more than anything else. We generally don’t try to figure out what makes other people happy or feel strongly rewarded when we make others happy. I have trouble doing things like buying people gifts when I’m not sure what they want, remembering to send cards, remembering to thank people for stuff, etc.
Another type of empathy is the ability to sense/feel emotional distress in others. I don’t lack this at all. In fact I’m more perceptive of it than most other males in some situations.
On the other hand there are psychopaths who love to please people (John Wayne Gacy Jr. loved to play with children) who nonetheless are able to sadistically torture and kill people without feeling any negative effect (in fact they are often elated by it). Thus you can see why the lack of empathy label can be offensive. Such a vague and general term that's so often misused and not even properly understood or explained. |
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PunkyKat
Phoenix
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Twlight Zone
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I've noticed I only have empathy for people in my immedate family and animals. Even bugs. I am constantly scoping up spiders and rolly pollys from inside and going outside to put them in the flower garden even at 3 in the morning. Anyone else I don't feel anything for. |
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 7907
Location: Home
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Your Empathy Quotient (EQ) is 21 out of 80.
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. ~Einstein. |
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