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CanyonWind
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 1223
Location: West of the Great Divide
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 Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Anybody who has spent time around non-human species knows that animals are communicating all the time, non-verbally of course.
Language, assigning specific meanings to a large number of specific sounds, is something that was tacked on to communication very recently, in evolutionary terms.
As far as communication goes, language is the paint and non-verbal communication is the building.
I have no idea what people are communicating except what they say, which usually isn't that important. This is not a trivial deficiency.
I don't see what accommodations could be made for an individual that other individuals dislike being around. It's not like I need braille beside the elevator buttons.
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I can't take up my rifle
And fight 'em anymore,
But I ain't a gonna love 'em
And that's for certain sure.
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shopaholic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Posts: 618
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: |
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In my office, and previous ones I have worked in, the men gossip much more than the women!
Note that by this I do not mean "talk more" - but the women will be talking about innocuous matters - families, kids, boyfriends, what they are having for lunch, but the men will be scheming, plotting & backstabbing.
I still find it so hard to believe in this 90% figure - in my experience it is more like 80% verbal & 20% non-verbal. I can't help wondering what parts I am missing out on, as I can read most major facial expressions & postures (though maybe not the subtler ones).
I know I don't give out the right signals, though.
I am also suffering from the "make the office more open-plan so that people integrate better" syndrome, which has more than halved my efficiency, increased my stress levels no end, and actually caused me to interact less with my colleagues than I did before, due to my vain attempts to "shut out" all the distractions around me.
I don't understand the necessity for people to get along with all their colleagues either - surely this is a bonus, not a job requirement? I am happy if there are one or two people I can get along with - the rest are totally irrelevant (as long as they do not hate me to the extent that they seek to undermine me, of course).
Surely at work you are simply a "role", not a "person" - this is what you are paid to do, and you should be expected to work and co-operate with whoever is filling the other roles with which you interact. All that is needed is that you should be able to respect their professional competence and trust them to carry out their role - not like them in the same way as someone you would choose to socialise with!!!! |
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 1980
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I've been working for decades now, and I have seen the change take place before my eyes. In a matter of a couple years, word spread out among employers everywhere that the social aspect is more important for the company's success than the work itself. This is where the loners got fired, ättendance to company ""fun"" days was made compulsory, group dynamics tests were made compulsory when applying for a job, etc. It's a trend. Something someone must have written in some book about the success of some firm and which got the managers of all firms thinking if you don't do it you're stupid. This is the worst time for aspies in jobs, therefore. The fad will pass, but many aspies like me will live in job hell till then.
Moreover, nowadays most work is so automated that it's very easy to train someone new. No craft is needed to master a task, as it used to be in the past. It used to take years to train a carpenter, an electrician, a shoe-repair man. They were therefore valuable, hard to replace, and their personality not important. Nowadays the ease to replace an employee is enormeous. Most people can do most jobs, with minimal training. So what's left for the employee to be good at? Making the environment """pleasant""" for the managers. Meaning: being a good sheep, being charming (hypocritical "'niceness" coupled with surreptitious backstabbing) - all the stuff we aspies can't do for the life of us.
Charm is what's therefore rewarded, by letting you keep your job if you're an average charmer, and promoting you if you excel at charm. Today's world belongs to the best charmers. We live in a society that is conquered only by charm. This is why there are more aspie cases reported than ever before: because we find it increasingly difficult to just live in today's society.
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"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl" - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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SotiCoto
Velociraptor
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 474
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Greentea wrote: | | I've been working for decades now, and I have seen the change take place before my eyes. In a matter of a couple years, word spread out among employers everywhere that the social aspect is more important for the company's success than the work itself. This is where the loners got fired, ättendance to company ""fun"" days was made compulsory, group dynamics tests were made compulsory when applying for a job, etc. It's a trend. Something someone must have written in some book about the success of some firm and which got the managers of all firms thinking if you don't do it you're stupid. This is the worst time for aspies in jobs, therefore. The fad will pass, but many aspies like me will live in job hell till then. |
Thank the crappers I live in London.
I've got direct access to the resources of the National Autistic Society.... and it was their "Prospects" branch that got me my job, as I have it now. That is to say I got into the job with everyone FULLY aware of my being Aspergian, and at least somewhat educated by the NAS into what that meant.
O'course this was after my many personal attempts at finding a job and failing.
I'm bloody glad it got taken off my hands, personally. |
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shopaholic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Posts: 618
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| SotiCoto wrote: |
Thank the crappers I live in London.
I've got direct access to the resources of the National Autistic Society.... and it was their "Prospects" branch that got me my job, as I have it now. That is to say I got into the job with everyone FULLY aware of my being Aspergian, and at least somewhat educated by the NAS into what that meant.
O'course this was after my many personal attempts at finding a job and failing.
I'm bloody glad it got taken off my hands, personally. |
Unfortunately I live just outside London, even though I work in London.
I really hate my job, am not even any good at it, & now know that I chose completely the wrong career for an Aspie, but I am stuck with it because I need to pay the mortgage!!!
I would give anything to be able to go to an agency like that, have them find out what I would be good at, and then help me through the interview minefield to actually get a job that suits me.
Why is it only restricted to people who live in London? |
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SotiCoto
Velociraptor
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 474
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| shopaholic wrote: |
I would give anything to be able to go to an agency like that, have them find out what I would be good at, and then help me through the interview minefield to actually get a job that suits me.
Why is it only restricted to people who live in London? |
It isn't... technically.
Or at least it shouldn't be if you're NEAR London at least.
I can't help but think of the awkwardness of getting yourself to the necessary location and whatnot though.
Have you tried looking through the National Autistic Society website?
I believe there is a Prospects e-mail address somewhere on there. Both the NAS and Prospects offices are in Islington... the NAS main right at Angel on the corner of City Road.... whereas the Prospects office is a bit further north.
I reckon they would be willing to help you out.... get you a more suitable job. They're very helpful there.... though unfortunately the two contacts I had within the place have both left for "greener pastures"... |
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shopaholic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Posts: 618
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| SotiCoto wrote: | | shopaholic wrote: |
Why is it only restricted to people who live in London? |
It isn't... technically.
Or at least it shouldn't be if you're NEAR London at least.
I can't help but think of the awkwardness of getting yourself to the necessary location and whatnot though.
Have you tried looking through the National Autistic Society website?
I believe there is a Prospects e-mail address somewhere on there. Both the NAS and Prospects offices are in Islington... the NAS main right at Angel on the corner of City Road.... whereas the Prospects office is a bit further north.
I reckon they would be willing to help you out.... get you a more suitable job. They're very helpful there.... though unfortunately the two contacts I had within the place have both left for "greener pastures"... |
OK, maybe it was me being literal  - on that website it does say "for anyone who lives in London".
No harm in asking them anyway, is there? (Not sure if my "partial diagnosis" will be good enough for them though - all I have is a letter from a psychologist saying I have "definite symptoms of AS/ADHD/OCD" & that my frontal lobes do not appear to be functioning properly.) |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 4973
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| CanyonWind wrote: | Anybody who has spent time around non-human species knows that animals are communicating all the time, non-verbally of course.
Language, assigning specific meanings to a large number of specific sounds, is something that was tacked on to communication very recently, in evolutionary terms.
As far as communication goes, language is the paint and non-verbal communication is the building.
I have no idea what people are communicating except what they say, which usually isn't that important. This is not a trivial deficiency.
I don't see what accommodations could be made for an individual that other individuals dislike being around. It's not like I need braille beside the elevator buttons. |
I have worked with domesticated dogs for the past year and find them much easier to "read". They also seem to really like me. I notice a huge difference in how I and they interact compared to the other staff who appear afraid to get their hands dirty by actually touching them...weirdos. The only reason I want to leave the job is I find it stressful to be in a small room with 16 large dogs...I can feel their anxiety and share it...it's a bad situation.
I guess the accomidation I would like is that HR people are made aware that we communicate differently. As far as people not liking me. I work pretty hard aat getting a long with people and don't like many of them either. What I don't like about them is that they wont work and what they don't like about me is that I do....I would think that if managers were made aware of this that they would be more likely to except my less social nature since I am actually getting the work done and I don't tend to get fired from jobs, so I do think that is appreciated inspite of their personal dislike of me as a person....(Some one has to do the work or they will have to.)
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| They don't like you because you won't socialize. And because you make them all look bad by doing all the work. |
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velodog
Gold Supporter
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 1251
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | I have worked with domesticated dogs for the past year and find them much easier to "read". They also seem to really like me. I notice a huge difference in how I and they interact compared to the other staff who appear afraid to get their hands dirty by actually touching them...weirdos. The only reason I want to leave the job is I find it stressful to be in a small room with 16 large dogs...I can feel their anxiety and share it...it's a bad situation.
I guess the accomidation I would like is that HR people are made aware that we communicate differently. As far as people not liking me. I work pretty hard aat getting a long with people and don't like many of them either. What I don't like about them is that they wont work and what they don't like about me is that I do....I would think that if managers were made aware of this that they would be more likely to except my less social nature since I am actually getting the work done and I don't tend to get fired from jobs, so I do think that is appreciated inspite of their personal dislike of me as a person....(Some one has to do the work or they will have to.) |
Dogs are very straightforward animals, it's usually obvious within moments of meeting them whether or not you'll be friends. People who don't like dogs for their good points should not work with them.
Are you registered at AFF Krex? I registered there recently as P7PSP but have not posted there yet. I have some philosophical differences with them but I know their hearts are in the right place so I am going to read more try to find areas of agreement rather than arguing like happened with the Autisnob thread. |
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I love dogs for what they are, and also for what they are not. I like cats, but dogs are the best companion animal ever. This is because the dog was mankind's original companion animal. |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 4973
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | They don't like you because you won't socialize. And because you make them all look bad by doing all the work. |
Yep. I can't tell you how many people I have worked with who resented me because I have a need to stay busy and don't like to stand around talking. They seem to assume that I am trying to make them look bad or trying to be an a@@ kisser because those are things that motivate them to work but my work is an internal satisfatction and a need to stay busy. I have actually had many people say..."I am not going to wrk any harder because they are not paying me enough to work hard. That is less frustrating in a place that you are making widgets but it doesn't hold when your being lazy is hurting either disabled people(in one job) or the dogs in my present job. They are nt responsable for your low pay and you agreed to take the job knowing the pay,so it is an excuse that just doesn't make sense to me. "Sometimes" they do help with the cleaning but when they are done they like to stand around the kitchen talking about their dates last night. I am in the kennels playing with the dogs. I guess we are both doing what gives us the most pleasure.
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Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesnt mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 4973
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Velodog...I think I may have joined AFF when I was first learning about AS but it seemed to eletist for me. I already experienced that mindset when I was hanging out with the punk/deathrockers in my younger days. I don't find that kind of group think as being helpful to me but maybe it is differnt now then it was a few years ago. There site also seemed much slower and I like the fast pace of this site. There is always new threads to read and I can spend 12 hoours here on my days off. I feel like I am learning a lot more and relate better to many members here.
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Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesnt mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang
Visit my crafts store
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CanyonWind
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 1223
Location: West of the Great Divide
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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There's a Chinese proverb, by the way:
No amount of labor in the fields can equal a spell of good weather.
No amount of dedicated service can equal being liked by your superiors.
_________________
I can't take up my rifle
And fight 'em anymore,
But I ain't a gonna love 'em
And that's for certain sure.
-traditional |
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| I like that proverb. |
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