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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| CityAsylum wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Yes, it is tragic. Gays have no social conscience, is that it? Being a repulsive human being won't help your cause. |
*Whoosh* - that just sailed right over your head!
Gay people who marry each other are not the problem - they just want to be with each other in loving relationships.
'Heterosexual' Men of God are performing buggery on the innocents, and they are your holy men - so when you do bend over, make sure you aren't in your church when you do it.  Don't they bother you at all, or is it OK because Jesus forgives them for straying from the path?
Gay people aren't the ones you have to watch out for, and that won't be apparent to you until one of your hetero spiritual leaders pokes you in your tail with a thing that isn't a stick.  |
I am sure Jesus would have accepted homosexuals, but not the fact that they are committing homosexual acts. He forgave the prostitute but told her not to sin anymore. He would forgive a man who committed such acts, but would tell him to not sin anymore. I don't see how this implies that homosexuals get a free pass to do what they want.  |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | CityAsylum wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Yes, it is tragic. Gays have no social conscience, is that it? Being a repulsive human being won't help your cause. |
*Whoosh* - that just sailed right over your head!
Gay people who marry each other are not the problem - they just want to be with each other in loving relationships.
'Heterosexual' Men of God are performing buggery on the innocents, and they are your holy men - so when you do bend over, make sure you aren't in your church when you do it. Don't they bother you at all, or is it OK because Jesus forgives them for straying from the path?
Gay people aren't the ones you have to watch out for, and that won't be apparent to you until one of your hetero spiritual leaders pokes you in your tail with a thing that isn't a stick. |
I am sure Jesus would have accepted homosexuals, but not the fact that they are committing homosexual acts. He forgave the prostitute but told her not to sin anymore. He would forgive a man who committed such acts, but would tell him to not sin anymore. I don't see how this implies that homosexuals get a free pass to do what they want. |
I don't see how sticking your penis into a different hole condemns you to hell. That is a god I don't want to follow.
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
I don't see how sticking your penis into a different hole condemns you to hell. That is a god I don't want to follow. |
That is a very disturbing way of putting it.
And if you cannot see why, then I can't help you with anything. Do what you want, just know it is not correct. After all, you'll just be following the rest of the people. No need to be different. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: |
I don't see how sticking your penis into a different hole condemns you to hell. That is a god I don't want to follow. |
That is a very disturbing way of putting it.
And if you cannot see why, then I can't help you with anything. Do what you want, just know it is not correct. After all, you'll just be following the rest of the people. No need to be different. |
Know its not correct? You act like there is some moral truth in your good book. There is as much truth, in reference to morals, as there is truth in reference to reality. The existence of angels is as real as moral truths.
Its not disturbing, I can see the forest for the trees. Thats all sex is, isn't it? Why does such a powerful god care where I stick my dick?
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
Know its not correct? You act like there is some moral truth in your good book. There is as much truth, in reference to morals, as there is truth in reference to reality. The existence of angels is as real as moral truths.
Its not disturbing, I can see the forest for the trees. Thats all sex is, isn't it? Why does such a powerful god care where I stick my dick? |
If you cannot see how disrespectful and immature your comment is, then how can you understand my position?
Either way, I still hold homosexuality as immoral just as I would hold any person who is willingly giving themselves to anyone as living immoral. Does it make them evil? No. They're just not living a life I would ever want to live. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: |
Know its not correct? You act like there is some moral truth in your good book. There is as much truth, in reference to morals, as there is truth in reference to reality. The existence of angels is as real as moral truths.
Its not disturbing, I can see the forest for the trees. Thats all sex is, isn't it? Why does such a powerful god care where I stick my dick? |
If you cannot see how disrespectful and immature your comment is, then how can you understand my position?
Either way, I still hold homosexuality as immoral just as I would hold any person who is willingly giving themselves to anyone as living immoral. Does it make them evil? No. They're just not living a life I would ever want to live. |
You're right, I don't respect your position. Opinions aren't meant to be respected, this is a marketplace of ideas. Still, most I can give some sense of value; yours I can not, its simply rubbish. I think I'm beyond mature, because I can see you just don't want to see the truth of the situation, while still off in your little wonderland with angels and fairies. We're not talking about something sexually depraved, like child pornography or rape. We're talking about sex between two consenting adults, and you want to pass off some holier than thou judgment on them.
It's not immoral. Its simply a case of two consenting adults wanting to do each other. Thats all, sir.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5708
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
You're right, I don't respect your position. Opinions aren't meant to be respected, this is a marketplace of ideas. Still, most I can give some sense of value; yours I can not, its simply rubbish. I think I'm beyond mature, because I can see you just don't want to see the truth of the situation, while still off in your little wonderland with angels and fairies. We're not talking about something sexually depraved, like child pornography or rape. We're talking about sex between two consenting adults, and you want to pass off some holier than thou judgment on them.
It's not immoral. Its simply a case of two consenting adults wanting to do each other. Thats all, sir. |
Who defines depraved? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAMBLA |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
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Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: |
You're right, I don't respect your position. Opinions aren't meant to be respected, this is a marketplace of ideas. Still, most I can give some sense of value; yours I can not, its simply rubbish. I think I'm beyond mature, because I can see you just don't want to see the truth of the situation, while still off in your little wonderland with angels and fairies. We're not talking about something sexually depraved, like child pornography or rape. We're talking about sex between two consenting adults, and you want to pass off some holier than thou judgment on them.
It's not immoral. Its simply a case of two consenting adults wanting to do each other. Thats all, sir. |
Who defines depraved? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAMBLA |
Anything not between two consenting adults, or an inanimate object. Animals are up in the air 
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
You're right, I don't respect your position. Opinions aren't meant to be respected, this is a marketplace of ideas. Still, most I can give some sense of value; yours I can not, its simply rubbish. I think I'm beyond mature, because I can see you just don't want to see the truth of the situation, while still off in your little wonderland with angels and fairies. We're not talking about something sexually depraved, like child pornography or rape. We're talking about sex between two consenting adults, and you want to pass off some holier than thou judgment on them.
It's not immoral. Its simply a case of two consenting adults wanting to do each other. Thats all, sir. |
I could retort this by insulting you, but I'd rather hold my dignity. So have fun insulting people. As for your comment towards Awesomelyglorious, who is to define adulthood and who is to define consent? You people would have a field day with such options. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: |
You're right, I don't respect your position. Opinions aren't meant to be respected, this is a marketplace of ideas. Still, most I can give some sense of value; yours I can not, its simply rubbish. I think I'm beyond mature, because I can see you just don't want to see the truth of the situation, while still off in your little wonderland with angels and fairies. We're not talking about something sexually depraved, like child pornography or rape. We're talking about sex between two consenting adults, and you want to pass off some holier than thou judgment on them.
It's not immoral. Its simply a case of two consenting adults wanting to do each other. Thats all, sir. |
I could retort this by insulting you, but I'd rather hold my dignity. So have fun insulting people. As for your comment towards Awesomelyglorious, who is to define adulthood and who is to define consent? You people would have a field day with such options. |
Insult me. That is the only retort you have when its shown just how stupid your beliefs are. I think its an insult to myself If I believed in such fairy tales, and gods that care so much about where my penis goes.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5708
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
Anything not between two consenting adults, or an inanimate object. Animals are up in the air |
But why? As oscuria already pointed out, "adult" is an arbitrary term. We define who adults are anyway, so you are simply saying that only people we define as capable of consenting can morally consent, and since when is morality defined by the legal system? Now, I disagree with the issue of defining consent, as that is not as difficult, unless we start going into issues of what can reduce the ability to consent. Really though, morality itself is just some weird faith based claim that people all refer to for whatever odd reason they have for doing so. |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: |
Anything not between two consenting adults, or an inanimate object. Animals are up in the air |
But why? As oscuria already pointed out, "adult" is an arbitrary term. We define who adults are anyway, so you are simply saying that only people we define as capable of consenting can morally consent, and since when is morality defined by the legal system? Now, I disagree with the issue of defining consent, as that is not as difficult, unless we start going into issues of what can reduce the ability to consent. Really though, morality itself is just some weird faith based claim that people all refer to for whatever odd reason they have for doing so. |
In this case, morality is being used to cop some condescending attitude on those who don't consent.
Yes, adult is an arbitrary term, though its commonly defined as having the mental capacity to consent, and that is what I refer to when I use the term adult. That is how I am defining it. In this utilitarian society, sex between two males does not hurt anyone, and brings happiness to the two parties. Yes, only people who can consent, as that is what sex is, after that it goes into the realm of rape.
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
Insult me. That is the only retort you have when its shown just how stupid your beliefs are. I think its an insult to myself If I believed in such fairy tales, and gods that care so much about where my penis goes. |
I have no desire to insult you. You might do it because you think it is best way to prove your point. I always see that with people: Too angry and carrying a holier attitude (it isn't only the believers).
You will never understand. I'd rather not belittle myself. 
AwesomelyGlorious, there should be a definition of consent. Would me lying or misleading to get in bed with a woman truly constitute as consenting? What if she was drunk yet still said yes? What if it was a person near of age? What is a consenting adult that kalister1 referred to? |
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Kalister1
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
Posts: 2882
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Kalister1 wrote: |
Insult me. That is the only retort you have when its shown just how stupid your beliefs are. I think its an insult to myself If I believed in such fairy tales, and gods that care so much about where my penis goes. |
I have no desire to insult you. You might do it because you think it is best way to prove your point. I always see that with people: Too angry and carrying a holier attitude (it isn't only the believers).
You will never understand. I'd rather not belittle myself.
AwesomelyGlorious, there should be a definition of consent. Would me lying or misleading to get in bed with a woman truly constitute as consenting? What if she was drunk yet still said yes? What if it was a person near of age? What is a consenting adult that kalister1 referred to? |
I'm not angry at all sir. You're just wrong. Don't try to avert the fact that you're a faith based holier than thou condescending homophobic bible thumper. You sound like the main character from Notes from Underground, trying to cop a holier than thou attitude even in defeat.
You're arguing semantics in the end. What is consent? What is adult? This is going away from the subject, which is you just care far too much where people stick their dicks.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5708
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kalister1 wrote: |
In this case, morality is being used to cop some condescending attitude on those who don't consent.
Yes, adult is an arbitrary term, though its commonly defined as having the mental capacity to consent, and that is what I refer to when I use the term adult. That is how I am defining it. In this utilitarian society, sex between two males does not hurt anyone, and brings happiness to the two parties. Yes, only people who can consent, as that is what sex is, after that it goes into the realm of rape. |
Well, the issue is that the age of consent is not something that we can really know. I suppose we can define what cannot consent to some extent, but the age of consent for many societies is SO dramatically lower than our own that we run into some doubt on the objective nature on our rules.
Really though, the only reason why you dislike oscuria's morality is because you like your own morality. What if I say that your morals suck? Isn't that just as valid as your attack on oscuria? |
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