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| Does gay marriage change the definition of marriage? |
| Yes. |
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18% |
[ 8 ] |
| No. |
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65% |
[ 28 ] |
| Maybe so. |
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16% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 43 |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2629
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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No. Marriage is something that exists and has existed in a number of different forms throughout history - arranged, non-arranged, for love, for money, for wealth, for politics, for dowry, for family ties, for all sorts of reasons. So any 'definition' will change with the times.
But the way it is commonly practised now in our Western culture - for love - won't be changed whether the people are gay or straight. Love is love, it knows no bounds, and it can't be confined to our simple, physical form. Why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry? Who are you to deny them that right? And surely love should be encouraged and helped along in any way possible, given the sheer amount of hatred in the world today and the devastation it's wreaking on the planet?
Love is love, who are we to judge...
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6142
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | | Why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry? |
Because apparently some don't want them to.
| Quote: | | Who are you to deny them that right? |
A disinterested voter who has been vested with some power to impact that.
| Quote: | | And surely love should be encouraged and helped along in any way possible, given the sheer amount of hatred in the world today and the devastation it's wreaking on the planet? |
Why? Couldn't we say that the real problem is lacking economic equality, or rule of law, or certain perverse opinions? I mean, it isn't as if hatred were suddenly invented by modern society.
| Quote: | | Love is love, who are we to judge... |
People who judge on things. You have certainly judged. Love is love, despite all other features to it. Isn't that a judgment like any other? |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2629
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose a judgement in its simplest form. Why complicate something as simple as love? Two people love each other - awesome, let them be in love and celebrate it however they like. It's not hurting anyone else, it's not affecting anyone else, it's just more love to keep the balance... why deny them their right to show the world how much they care? I just don't really see why it's such a big issue.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6142
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | | I suppose a judgement in its simplest form. Why complicate something as simple as love? Two people love each other - awesome, let them be in love and celebrate it however they like. It's not hurting anyone else, it's not affecting anyone else, it's just more love to keep the balance... why deny them their right to show the world how much they care? I just don't really see why it's such a big issue. |
Why not complicate it? Who says that it is simple? Technically it does affect other people if these individuals are not in a vacuum, especially if it is to show the world. Now, these appearances can cause displeasure. I can understand that last sentence though... and there are some reasons, but you would rightly disagree with all of them I am afraid and I would dislike them too.  |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2629
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I can see how people would complicate it, but it need not be complicated. So two people love each other and want to show the world how much they care - I doubt anyone who has ever been in love would deny the feeling of wanting to tell the world how much they love that person. People can be as offended as they like, but at the end of the day all they're doing is caring for, looking after, and enjoying their time with someone they love - it's not harming anyone and it's not directly involving anyone else. So why should others take it upon themselves to pass judgement over whether their love is *real* or *good* or *true* or anything else?
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spudnik
The Spalding Gray of Crap.
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 3947
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Not that there is anything wrong with people wanting to make a relationship a life long commitment, but I think it would be better if they would call it a Civil Union instead of marriage, since marriage is used in the context for man and wife, and has been for who knows how long, people should not be against a couple who love each other.
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7895
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | looking at the situation objectively, what difference does it make to any of you if gay people are allowed to get married or not?
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Because as members of society, it is our natural and rightful place to care about changes our society undergoes.
Next question.
| peebo wrote: |
homosexuality will exist regardless, it has existed as long as creatures with genitalia have existed.
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So does terrorism. Doesn't mean we should just roll over and accept it.
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 7907
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | peebo wrote: | looking at the situation objectively, what difference does it make to any of you if gay people are allowed to get married or not?
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Because as members of society, it is our natural and rightful place to care about changes our society undergoes. |
well, I agree there.
| Quote: | | So does terrorism. Doesn't mean we should just roll over and accept it. |
Terrorism=homosexuality?
I didn't know that.
Logic states otherwise though.
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7895
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| greenblue wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | peebo wrote: | looking at the situation objectively, what difference does it make to any of you if gay people are allowed to get married or not?
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Because as members of society, it is our natural and rightful place to care about changes our society undergoes. |
well, I agree there.
| Quote: | | So does terrorism. Doesn't mean we should just roll over and accept it. |
Terrorism=homosexuality?
I didn't know that.
Logic states otherwise though. |
No, I'm just saying that "It's here" is not much of an argument for something's validity.
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Last edited by Ragtime on Mon May 19, 2008 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tim_Tex
WP's Resident Simpsons and South Park Aficionado
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 22412
Location: San Marcos, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't really thought about this.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6142
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: |
No, I'm just saying that "It's here" is not much of an argument for something's validity. |
It is an argument for making institutions suited to deal with the issue. For example, with terrorism, we can install more metal detectors and use more security measures in our daily lives. All that is called for is that we do a similar thing with homosexuality rather than ignore it. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8977
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| We sure aren't ignoring homosexuality. The very existence of this discussion is proof of that. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6142
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | We sure aren't ignoring homosexuality. The very existence of this discussion is proof of that. |
Well, are you creating institutions to deal with it? No. The fact that we are arguing over it does not mean that we have made any efforts. |
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Teoka
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 131
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | In my opinion it doesnt change the definition of
the word, but merely cheapens the act. It seems
this is just another way that fags are trying to
imitate normal people. I guess I would feel sorry
for them if I valued their existance.
Dont get me wrong, I do my best to be tolerant
of others but I believe the only thing worse than
allowing fags to get married is be to allow them
to adopt children.
I also believe they should all be castrated and have
the word "HOMO" tattooed across their foreheads. |
You cannot be serious.
Personally, I think that marriage should be between two consenting adults of little to no blood relation. Period. Any gender, any race, any creed. It's just about love. That sounds naive, yes, but that's what successful marriages are based on (as well as respect, etc.).
The slippery slope arguments that are seen so often are just ridiculous. Not only is it a perfect use of the slippery slope fallacy, but how is it that legalizing all intraspecies marriages between consenting adult humans lead to interspecies marriages between men and horses?
I think that the best route would be that civil marriages are defined as in the first part of this post, while churches have the right to marry whomever they want. We're about halfway there. 
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8977
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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We are not obligated to make efforts.
How is the Slippery Slope argument a fallacy? |
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