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srriv345
Velociraptor
Joined: Jul 19, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 447
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Every time this topic comes up, this point seems lost: Brain damage due to ethyl mercury is not particularly similar to autism. Look up a clinical description of it, and it's quite apparent. A lot of "similarities" fall apart upon closer examination. For example, people with mercury poisoning often have trouble with motor tasks. This is NOT like dyspraxia which autistics often have, however. The stims and repetitive behaviors associated with autism would often be impossible for someone with mercury-caused brain damage. Those kinds of quick motor motions can be impossible for someone in this situation. The idea of "similarity" between the two conditions is the result of misunderstanding. |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4454
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | But how do you know you'd have had the flu without it?
You can't prove efficacy without knowing for sure that you'd have had the disease without the shot...
[I keep meaning to say I love your post headings by the way!  ] |
I also love Sartresue's post headers. Epidemiological studies have supported the efficacy of flu vaccines because people who are vaccinated are less likely to get sick. Now, it's harder with influenza, because there's a new strain each year and the virologists have to try to come up with a vaccine BEFORE the season's flu strain actually emerges, making for an imperfect science and some gaps in coverage. It's pretty tough to come up with a vaccine for an as-yet-nonexistent illness, but that's what the flu vaccine developers have to do. That's the reason why it didn't turn out so well last year, not because vaccines are inherently worthless.
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2630
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| srriv345 wrote: | | Every time this topic comes up, this point seems lost: Brain damage due to ethyl mercury is not particularly similar to autism. Look up a clinical description of it, and it's quite apparent. A lot of "similarities" fall apart upon closer examination. For example, people with mercury poisoning often have trouble with motor tasks. This is NOT like dyspraxia which autistics often have, however. The stims and repetitive behaviors associated with autism would often be impossible for someone with mercury-caused brain damage. Those kinds of quick motor motions can be impossible for someone in this situation. The idea of "similarity" between the two conditions is the result of misunderstanding. |
This has been acknowledged and discussed by both sides....
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
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sartresue
Radical Aspergian
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 2382
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Flu Shots |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | But how do you know you'd have had the flu without it?
You can't prove efficacy without knowing for sure that you'd have had the disease without the shot...
[I keep meaning to say I love your post headings by the way! ] |
Shot of health topic
lekiwi, I have had nasty vicious bronchial flus which necessitated staying in bed for weeks. I even needed oxygen, painkillers and costly antibiotics. My weak spot is my respiratory system. This is what the flu is. I am healthier now than I was in my thirties. I will continue to have this vaccination. I will not go through one of those horrible problems again. If I ever get the flu again, after getting the shot, then I will rethink my position.
If your solutions work for you, great. But I will not change my mind on this. I cannot go through that pain in my chest and breathing problems. The last time I got the flu in 1993, I thought I was going to die, and I had a young child to look after. Since 1994 I have had another child and NOT ONE FLU ILLNESS. 
Thank you for your compliment about my post titles.
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Radical Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2630
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough, I've had some pretty nasty flu-induced bronchitis/chest infections myself (last time I ended up having asthma-type attacks and being dragged to hospital for lack of oxygen!), but antibiotics or drugs do nothing for them. Even amongst that last awful bout I refused more than a week's worth of the mildest antibiotics possible because they just don't work, and refused to see the doctor again. The only thing that's ever fixed it was homoeopathics combined with a herbal mixture from a herbalist friend. The one time I did take a preventative - not the flu vax but a similar drug for the same purpose - I ended up sicker than I've been in my life, and it was that that started my trip down flu lane last year.
I honestly don't know one person who's had the vaccine and not ended up incredibly ill with the flu, Perhaps this is just speaking from my own experiences but there's no way that thing should be anywhere near small children like they want it to be, having seen what it does to grown men and women. Adults can make up their own minds, and that's fine, personal choice and all that, but kids? No way.
My biggest problem with all these vaccines isn't so much that they're there - if you're an adult then it's your choice whether you take them or not, and that's fine. It's the lack of accurate information about them, the lies the governments put out about them, the falsified trial data from their criminal manufacturers who would have been jailed long ago in any other circumstance, and the way they're being pushed more and more on our babies and children whose systems cannot handle the overload, and that's fact.
That's what gets me so riled up. 
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
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earthmonkey
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 06, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: |
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But there is information that, unless they've got the strains wrong as happened recently, then it protects a lot more than it is ineffective. And just because someone got sick anyway doesn't mean that the vaccine caused it, just that it failed to protect from it.
For thorough analysis of the papers regarding mercury and autism, I redirect anyone reading to http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk
They frequently analyze papers and claims about vaccines and autism. A news report, by the way, doesn't qualify as scientific evidence. I suggest you look up on that website information on the Hornig paper, as well as some other ones (including a recent post about Bernard et. al located at http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=835). That site explains things a lot better than I can.
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"Public transportation is for jerks and lesbians." --Homer Simpson
"why is it bad for me to discuss why I need the lights off above my desk but it is ok for you to tell me you had a camera shoved up your a#$?" --an aspie coming out |
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MsTriste
OTS
Joined: Dec 08, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 3373
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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A landmark study that states that there is no connection between thimerosal and autism can be found here: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/290/13/1763
Citation and Abstract:
Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism
Anders Hviid, MSc; Michael Stellfeld, MD; Jan Wohlfahrt, MSc; Mads Melbye, MD, PhD
JAMA. 2003;290:1763-1766.
ABSTRACT
Context Mercuric compounds are nephrotoxic and neurotoxic at high doses. Thimerosal, a preservative used widely in vaccine formulations, contains ethylmercury. Thus it has been suggested that childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccine could be causally related to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism.
Objective To determine whether vaccination with a thimerosal-containing vaccine is associated with development of autism.
Design, Setting, and Participants Population-based cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1, 1990, until December 31, 1996 (N = 467 450) comparing children vaccinated with a thimerosal-containing vaccine with children vaccinated with a thimerosal-free formulation of the same vaccine.
Main Outcome Measures Rate ratio (RR) for autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders, including trend with dose of ethylmercury.
Results During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval {CI}, 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 µg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders).
Conclusion The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.
And the CDC says that the flu vaccine is safe, as well:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/thimerosal.htm |
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GodsGadfly
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 22, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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1. My wife has a cousin with an autistic son. Now, when she first started talking about it, she took it for granted as genetic: she and her husband both come from pretty smart, engineering oriented families (he's a programmer), and her husband and her father are both kind of anti-social. After a while, she got into the mercury thing, but found out that her father used a kind of pesticide on his farm that's very high in mercury.
2. I'm technically in the "high risk" category that's supposed to get the flu shot. But every tiem I get the flu shot, I get pneumonia. If I just get the flu and let it take its course (without the studpid "fight your immune system" OTC drugs Americans take), it goes away quickly. |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2630
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: |
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GodsGadfly, have you ever tried homoeopathy for it? I've found it's the only thing that's ever worked for me when I've had a serious flu (beyond the usuals like lemon and honey drinks, echinacea, high doses of vitamin C etc, but sometimes you need something extra on top of all that).
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
New Blog: http://onelittleaspergian.blogspot.com/ |
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jamescampbell
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 24, 2008
Age: 14
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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lets try some test on an animal who's body is completly diffrent from ours!
the results can't be wrong right!? right!?. |
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MsTriste
OTS
Joined: Dec 08, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 3373
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody care for an outbreak of influenza similar to the one that killed an estimated 20 to 100 MILLION people in 1918?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu |
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2630
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4454
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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LeKiwi, you know damn well why he asked.
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2630
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Not really...
If he's talking about H5N1 (as seems to be the only modern link to the Spanish Flu I can think of) suddenly morphing into the Spanish Flu because people refuse their annual flu shots, then clearly there's such little understanding of how the flu shots even work and the strains they are for that there's not much point in going into it. There is no vaccine against it, the only one who's ever benefitted from tamiflu is Don Rumsfeld, and it's not even happened yet and could never happen.
Beyond that, I'm not sure how my not vaccinating is going to lead to a repeat of the 1918 epidemic, so no - I'm not sure what his point was. Feel free to explain. 
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
New Blog: http://onelittleaspergian.blogspot.com/ |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4454
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | | the only one who's ever benefitted from tamiflu is Don Rumsfeld |
My English teacher last year benefited from Tamiflu. He greatly appreciates not being dead.
| LeKiwi wrote: | | and it's not even happened yet and could never happen. |
Clarify your pronouns. What is "it?" You mean another pandemic? Yes it could happen, and is expected in the relatively near future.
| LeKiwi wrote: | | Beyond that, I'm not sure how my not vaccinating is going to lead to a repeat of the 1918 epidemic, so no - I'm not sure what his point was. Feel free to explain. |
Refusing the benefits of modern medicine leaves society vulnerable to dangerous epidemics. That's been explained to you enough times before.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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